Visits to Hell and my thoughts about it

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RaisedCatholic said:
I read the book, “Heaven Is For Real” several years ago, and I don’t remember the details. But some of the things I read just didn’t match with Scripture.
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Blessed Henry Suso (1295 - 1366) Dominican and German mystic

-Now, then, ascend thou on high with Me. I will carry thee thither in spirit, and will give thee, after a rude similitude, a distant glimpse into the future. Behold, above the ninth heaven, which is incalculably more than a hundred thousand times larger than the entire earth, there is another heaven which is called Coelum Empyreum, the fiery heaven, so called, not from its being of fire, but from its immeasurably transparent brightness, which is immovable and unchangeable in its nature; and this is the glorious court in which the heavenly hosts dwell, where the morning star with the rest praises Me, and all the children of God rejoice.

There stand, encompassed with inconceivable light, the everlasting thrones, from which the evil spirits were hurled, in which the elect are seated. See how the delightful city shines with beaten gold, how it glitters with costly jewels, inlaid with precious stones, transparent as crystal, reflecting red roses, white lilies, and all living flowers. Now, look on the beautiful heavenly fields themselves. Lo! here all delights of summer, here sunny meads of May, here the very valley of bliss, here the glad moments are seen flitting from joy to joy; here harps and viols, here singing, and leaping, and dancing, hand in hand for ever! here the gratification of every desire, here pleasure without pain in everlasting security!

Now, look how the countless multitude drink to their hearts’ desire at the living fountains of gushing water; look how they feast their eyes on the pure, clear mirror of the revealed Divinity, in which all things are made plain and evident to them. Steal a little nearer, and mark how the sweet queen of the celestial kingdom, whom thou lovest with so much ardour, soars aloft in dignity and joy over the whole celestial host, reclining tenderly on her beloved, encircled with rose-flowers and lilies of the valley. See how her ravishing beauty fills with delight and wonder all the heavenly choirs.

Continue-
http://www.catholictreasury.info/books/eternal_wisdom/ew13.php
 
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Techno2000 said:
But I noticed one thing: That most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell.” (Diary 741)
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And this statement is consistent with the NT:
‘But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.’ - Rev 21:8
 
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I as a non Catholic actually own one of those books you recommended. And I read it. Horrible stories they have in there.

And also the book was in front of an Icon in my living room.
 
I saw this story years ago it was a south American Girl said she saw hell and later it was found out to of been made up I think her mother got her to do it. It was along time ago.

The Heaven is real kid also said he lied.
 
MichaelP3 said:
I as a non Catholic actually own one of those books you recommended. And I read it. Horrible stories they have in there.
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But some of the things I read just didn’t match with Scripture. I also read “23 Minutes in Hell,” it described individual “pockets” of hellfire of people suffering, instead one large lake of fire.

That’s not horrible ?
 
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Rather: Be frightened to withhold you love from God by remaining apart from Him.

Be the prodigal son.
 
In my defence I read that book maybe about 5 or 6 years ago when I started to go through my “I need to understand Catholicism phase”. (Luckily that is mostly fulfilled now). My Polish and Catholic father in law still gave it to me. Or rather I kindly asked about it in his study and he gave it to me. (He also had the icon “written” for us at my request from a monastery in Moldova where he was working at the time). I struggle to recall what I did last week at times. I just remember “horrible” when I think back about it. Probably for various reasons which I can guess as I am writing this.
 
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I heard the heaven is for real story is true, but another child lied about theirs.
 
Nearly five years after it hit best-seller lists, a book that purported to be a 6-year-old boy’s story of visiting angels and heaven after being injured in a bad car crash is being pulled from shelves. The young man at the center of The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven , Alex Malarkey, said this week that the story was all made up.
All sorts of news stories on it - I could be wng.
 
Sorry not the same kid your right

Not To Be Confused! These Are Two Different Children’s Heavenly Stories: Malarkey, The Boy Who Came Back From Heaven, and Burpo, The Boy Who Went To Heaven. One is the truth - the other a recanted lie!
 
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Yeah different stories. Good catch though. A lot of stories like that have helped me quite a bit. Hopefully they will help others.
 
So the proposition being discussed here is whether people who claim to have visited hell in some way and to recall it have actually done so.

For this to have occurred, someone with the power to enable such visits (assuming there is a hell) would have had to enable it. This person is typically said to be God or someone authorised by Him.

For God to do this, God must want either the individuals or the people they tell about it to be aware of hell beyond an awareness that comes from scripture and tradition.

If God was to want to do this He would do so in a way which people found convincing and not in a way that could be easily rejected (as we have seen people doing in this thread in particular cases).

The argument that you need faith to accept the messages does not hold up, since faith is needed to accept the messages of scripture and tradition. If further proof is to be given, it would logically be actual proof of a convincing kind.

Therefore it seems to me that it is not rational to believe in these visions since, if the originate with God, God is doing something manifestly ineffective and therefore not what an omnipotent God as portrayed in Catholic belief would do. If He wanted to convince by proof, he would do so.
 
How about the vision of hell at Fatima that was shown to the three children by Mary.
 
BT3241 said:
How about the vision of hell at Fatima that was shown to the three children by Mary.
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I feel the same way about that, and the other communications to the children. I think that is there is a God, and he wants us to know something, he would communicate it directly and in a way that did not require faith. I imagine there are some non-Catholics who have accepted the Fatima messages but the fact there are so few indicates that the messages are not, in fact, persuasive unless you are predisposed to believe them. And many Catholics, of course, do not accept them as factual. If God thinks scripture and tradition are not enough and wants to communicate in addition, surely his communications would be clear, direct, and contain evidence of divine inspiration. For examples, predictions would be of concrete, unpredictable things and not vague descriptions of a bishop in white and angels with swords.
 
FiveLinden said:
I think that is there is a God, and he wants us to know something, he would communicate it directly and in a way that did not require faith.
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Why?

You are making assumptions based on your personal view how God should act… but that personal view is not based on anything concrete. You do not base it on logic, nor theology nor anything like that. Lord tells us in the Bible “blessed be those who did not see but believed”… which means there is indeed value in faith. If faith was not needed then there would be no point in Revelation anyway.
 
FiveLinden said:
If God sought to communicate, the communication would be effective.
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Why do you suppose effectiveness makes communication perfect?

If God indeed communicated without leaving us any doubt, what would be point of our free will? What would be point of faith? Would we need to search?

Imagine parent being world famous mathematician. Now his kid comes to him with very simple math homework. Parent can obviously just tell him correct answer but should he? If he just guides the kid to it, so that kid may understand, it is much better approach.
 
OrbisNonSufficit said:
Why do you suppose effectiveness makes communication perfect?

If God indeed communicated without leaving us any doubt, what would be point of our free will? What would be point of faith? Would we need to search?

Imagine parent being world famous mathematician. Now his kid comes to him with very simple math homework. Parent can obviously just tell him correct answer but should he? If he just guides the kid to it, so that kid may understand, it is much better approach.
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The claim made about private revelations is that through them we are receiving a message by, or authorised by, God. If God wishes to send a message it can have only one purpose: that the message be received. Otherwise, God would be trying to do something other than send a message, like confuse us, or cause dissension, or upset people. Those who believe in private revelations think that God is not trying to do those things but rather to communicate a message. Being God, He could communicate in an effective way. If the communication does not mean the same thing to all who hear it then it is not effective. Therefore these private revelations are not revelations from a perfect God.

You ask why God would communicate without doubt? Well, according to Catholics he has already provided a complete revelation of Himself and His purpose for us. It cannot be added to. We are free to believe it or not. Why would he want to add doubtful things to that already revealed? There is enough doubt in revealed truth as understood by Catholics to last everyone’s earthly lifetime.

Your parent asked about a maths question, were he God, would guide all children asking him towards the same answer, not different answers, as is the case with private revelations.
 
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CroatCatholic said:
I am a former Protestant, and Protestantism is pure chaos with thousands of doctrines
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As a Protestant did you really have to experience choosing between thousands of ways to get water baptized? Did you experience thousands of choices on abortion? On communion? On songs to sing?
 
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