Vocation problem

[TiggerS]

True as long as it doesn’t stall there.

To my mind we need our confident trust in The Lord (St Therese’s spiritual rioad) rather than any of our own desires or efforts. Again to my mind, we need daily prayer desperately. We need to be unafraid of failure and difficulties and to persevere on regardless. We need sensitivity to The Holy Spirit and this means a spirit of daily prayer as vital.
Things may not change one little bit in my lifetime - and to my mind that’s ok. The Lord knows what He is about at all times and in all things, no matter how they may appear to our human thinking and eyes.

 

[TiggerS]

I really think you have a good idea there. What does everybody else think? Do you want to start it?

Re this thread. I anyway am happy than another contacts moderation and asks that the thread be split in two. I think it is important that posts relating to the lay vocation are transferred over to another thread if at all possible, so we dont repeat ourselves?

We are still discussion “vocation problem” (title of the thread) meaning the lay vocation. But the opening post was about a particular poster having difficulty with their own religious vocation and asking prayers.
A separate thread titled “Vocation of The Laity” may draw more comments and more comments could mean more good (name removed by moderator)ut to toss around.

 

[iloveangels]

Re this thread. I anyway am happy than another contacts moderation and asks that the thread be split in two. I think it is important that posts relating to the lay vocation are transferred over to another thread if at all possible, so we dont repeat ourselves?

We are still discussion “vocation problem” (title of the thread) meaning the lay vocation. But the opening post was about a particular poster having difficulty with their own religious vocation and asking prayers.
A separate thread titled “Vocation of The Laity” may draw more comments and more comments could mean more good (name removed by moderator)ut to toss around.

That’s good. I’m glad you know how to do the mechanics of this, because I don’t. Vocation of the Laity is a great title to get peoples’ attention to what this really is. Good idea. Will it appear right away or do they have to sort through it to separate the posts?

Oh wait! TiggerS, I"m confused. Did you want to do it or did you want someone else to? Help.

 

[iloveangels]

Okay, I requested a topic split here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8887593&postcount=1

 

[FraLeones]

Unless I’m misunderstanding your use of words, the words I have bolded wouild be a “red flag” to me. If someone were to tell me that their vocation was to “be a victim”, my first thought would be that he or she needed some psychological counseling, because that is not a psychologically healthy attitude.

You say Jesus told you this was your vocation. Have you sought spiritual direction on this? Remember, the Bible says to test every spirit, and on something as important as a lifelong vocation and something as provocative as what you have said (and the fact that you referred to an illness in a subsequent post) it is even MORE important, especially when you are only a teenager.

Additionally, where are you from? Your writing style suggests you are not from an English-speaking country, so culture may also come into play here as well in understanding what you are trying to communicate.

Yes i do have spiritual directors and i listen to them. I am also from the Philippines.

 

[FraLeones]

I am very happy you are still with us, FraLeones, though the thread has come far from your subject. I am certainly remembering you in daily prayer - and please remember us all in yours. We all very much and desperately need the prayers of each other…God bless and keep you close as He does…Tigger

yes i am really praying for all of us…

let us pray for each other so we could all be faithful till our last breath. though i no longer grasp the topic of others, i do appreciate all of your comments and prayers.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Unless I’m misunderstanding your use of words, the words I have bolded wouild be a “red flag” to me. If someone were to tell me that their vocation was to “be a victim”, my first thought would be that he or she needed some psychological counseling, because that is not a psychologically healthy attitude.

I understand why this is a red flag for you, it makes one wonder about a psychological issue. But, in fact, I think it’s more common than we tend to believe. Many people are born with, or have visited on them, lifelong problems, we might call them disabilities or illnesses or disfigurements, things that bring them a state of uncommon personal suffering.

If this is true in some way for FraLeones, then what he has said is not psychologically unhealthy, but simply the answer he got to the question “why me?”

OTOH, to have made such a provocative statement with no further information, strikes me as being less than straightforward. It invites abuse by misunderstanding. It’s better left unsaid or else fully explained from the outset. It doesn’t surprise me at all that the thread was hijacked to the extent it has been.

 

[TiggerS]

Okay, I requested a topic split here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8887593&postcount=1

Excellent - thank you very much.

I will probably be absent from the computer for another few hours. I am currently reading"Eucharist" by Father John Barron and world renown Catholic theologian. I read the following and immediately thought of this thread and decided to return and post it:

“In our dysfunction, having lost contact with the God through whom all are one, we tend to order ourselves in exclusive and domineering ways, determining the insiders precisely in contradiction to the outsiders. But this is just the kind of phony, self destructive community that Jesus has come to interrupt”.

"Eucharist"** Fr John Barron P41 Publisher: Orbis Books, Maryknoll, NY.**

 

[TiggerS]

I understand why this is a red flag for you, it makes one wonder about a psychological issue. But, in fact, I think it’s more common than we tend to believe. Many people are born with, or have visited on them, lifelong problems, we might call them disabilities or illnesses or disfigurements, things that bring them a state of uncommon personal suffering.

If this is true in some way for FraLeones, then what he has said is not psychologically unhealthy, but simply the answer he got to the question “why me?”

OTOH, to have made such a provocative statement with no further information, strikes me as being less than straightforward. It invites abuse by misunderstanding. It’s better left unsaid or else fully explained from the outset. It doesn’t surprise me at all that the thread was hijacked to the extent it has been.

Offering oneself as a “victim” is sometimes threaded through the lives and writings of some of our saints. There is the victim to God’s Justice and St. Therese offered herself as a victim to God’s Love. There is the victim to God’s Mercy.
I dont know if ‘victim-hood’ or more correctly perhaps “victim soul” (no time to research it) is still applicable in modern spiritual understanding and sometimes suggested or affirmed by spiritual direction. No idea at all. I think probably it could have quite a spiritual motivation providing one has an understanding of the theology behind it, or it may be something psychologically unhealthy. A spiritual director would determine this for a person if in doubt.
Psychological problems, indeed, are not selective. They can occur in any person at all for some reason in any walk of life, and at any time.

 

[JReducation]

The phrases Franciscan Chaos and Seraphic Confusion come to mind.

There are three Franciscan orders that Francis founded. Each of those orders has different obediences (branches). There are 112 Franciscan obediences. We are the largest religious family in the Catholic Church with 1.7 million.

Now look at the positive side.

If we were as organized as Dominicans, Carmelites or Jesuits, would there be 1.7 million of us 800 years later?

Heck NO!

It’s broken because God designed it that way. Let’s not try to fix it.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[TiggerS]

Afterthought: Psychological disorders, the whole gamut of disorders that psychology and psychiatry address, are not sins. Far more serious is sin, even venial sin. Socially and culturally however, we do tend to look upon the former with something akin to horror and can be dismissive of the latter, even accepting. We can freely admit that we are sinners but like to keep our psychological and psychiatric problems in the closet if we can and simply because of the way we are at this point socially and culturally.

 

[iloveangels]

There are three Franciscan orders that Francis founded. Each of those orders has different obediences (branches). There are 112 Franciscan obediences. We are the largest religious family in the Catholic Church with 1.7 million.

Now look at the positive side.

If we were as organized as Dominicans, Carmelites or Jesuits, would there be 1.7 million of us 800 years later?

Heck NO!

It’s broken because God designed it that way. Let’s not try to fix it.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

112 obediences? Wow. No wonder no one can keep them straight. That’s awesome.

 

[iloveangels]

Excellent - thank you very much.

I will probably be absent from the computer for another few hours. I am currently reading"Eucharist" by Father John Barron and world renown Catholic theologian. I read the following and immediately thought of this thread and decided to return and post it:

“In our dysfunction, having lost contact with the God through whom all are one, we tend to order ourselves in exclusive and domineering ways, determining the insiders precisely in contradiction to the outsiders. But this is just the kind of phony, self destructive community that Jesus has come to interrupt”.

"Eucharist"** Fr John Barron P41 Publisher: Orbis Books, Maryknoll, NY.**

I have a book by him, TiggerS. It’s called “The Strangest Way,” but I haven’t finished it yet. I want to see his Catholicism series but it’s expensive. Maybe for Christmas. =)

 

[FraLeones]

by the way the charism of our order is VICTIMHOOD… to be victim souls…

and thats what my superior told me about my vocation…
to be a victim

 

[Julia_Mae]

by the way the charism of our order is VICTIMHOOD… to be victim souls…

What order is that?

 

[Julia_Mae]

Afterthought: Psychological disorders, the whole gamut of disorders that psychology and psychiatry address, are not sins.

They are also not necessarily disorders. A young woman in our Parish was studying for a degree in counselling of some type. She was required to undergo sessions with a certified psychologist as part of the program. When she told this person she had a vocation and was planning on becoming a religious sister, the counselor tried to “cure” her. The woman was a 24 year old virgin who wanted a life of celibacy devoted to Jesus Christ in community.

She was told that the fact she was a virgin at 24 bespoke a serious psychological trauma in her youth. (She was quite attractive and personable, you see.) Victim souls are still victim souls, Padre Pio was, as was Saint Faustina, spiritual realities don’t expire.

 

[joanofarc2008]

There are three Franciscan orders that Francis founded. Each of those orders has different obediences (branches). There are 112 Franciscan obediences. We are the largest religious family in the Catholic Church with 1.7 million.

Now look at the positive side.

If we were as organized as Dominicans, Carmelites or Jesuits, would there be 1.7 million of us 800 years later?

Heck NO!

It’s broken because God designed it that way. Let’s not try to fix it.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Oh no it’s one of the things I love especially after years in the military.

 

[joanofarc2008]

I think possibly maybe we are having a language problem with our friend and maybe the word victim is being used where servant or soft-martyr or sufferer should be?

 

[Julia_Mae]

I think possibly maybe we are having a language problem with our friend and maybe the word victim is being used where servant or soft-martyr or sufferer should be?

Yes, I thought knowing the Order might help. But I also think having read the op he is capable of writing more than these brief responses with limited info and I’m not sure how long I want to play 20 questions with him. I’m not that impressed by us having to work harder to understand than he is to be understood. Probably best to mosey on along…

 

[iloveangels]

Yes, I thought knowing the Order might help. But I also think having read the op he is capable of writing more than these brief responses with limited info and I’m not sure how long I want to play 20 questions with him. I’m not that impressed by us having to work harder to understand than he is to be understood. Probably best to mosey on along…

FraLeones,

Try another order. If that one doesn’t work out either, then you’ll know a lot more about what’s going on. Also next time, get as much information about yourself and how you’re doing as you can, rather than just reacting. Be open and really listen to what they tell you. It’s necessary.

We can’t really help you in a web forum, because we don’t really know you. I think that’s kind of what Julia is saying, and I agree with the fact that we can’t really do anything, except say some prayers for you. And we’ve done that.

God talks to people in a lot of different ways. Sometimes these very practical experiences are God speaking to a person as much, or even more, than any consolation they might receive in prayer. Sometimes the things God decides aren’t to our liking, and sometimes they are. Try it out again just to make sure. That way you won’t grow old wondering. You’ll know. And then you will be able to put the practical pieces of your life back together again one way or the other.