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exoflare
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NotWorthy
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No, Believers is **correctly **stating that Catholics teach that any person who is baptized correctly using the Trinitarian formula is considered Catholic, a Child of God.
Notworthy
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NotWorthy
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I don’t know? How about if you ask Jesus?
John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit."
Believers, what you are preaching is that by your works (“to Lover one another”) are you saved. That sounds like heresy. Jesus preaches that you must first become a Child of God, then you must love one another “as I have loved you”! These works don’t “regenerate” you, but they do keep you in a state of Grace. Therefore, “loving one another” is absolutely necessary to remain in Him, but not to become one with Him.
Yes, brother (or sister), you are correct in wishing to do what Jesus commanded, and I applaud you for that. But you see, you can’t just pick and choose which of His commandments to follow.
John 6:53 is pretty clear: “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.” Amen Amen is used by people in Israel’s courts to state that what they say is absolutely true! Hmmmm.
John 6:54 is just as clear: “Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.”
Believers, please don’t isolate one of Jesus’ wonderful teachings, “To love one another as I have loved you”, and neglect the full extent of His message!!!
Good Luck!
Notworthy
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Sirach14
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Me TooMark 12:30- I love the Lord my God with all my heart with all my soul with all my mind and with all my strength. Glad you asked!
In Christ,
Nancy
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Orionthehunter
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If that is true, we should no longer have any division.
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Sirach14
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Here is a good exchange by a Catholic apologists, and a bitter ex-Catholic like Walk in love.
catholicintl.com/qa/qa.htm#Question%2035
catholicintl.com/qa/qa.htm#Question%2035
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Sirach14
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Sirach14
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If you wanted to learn more about Jesus, why didn’t you read the Gospels? who was stopping you?
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Sirach14
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This conversation is going along the lines of every other ex-Catholic. They seem to have memorized the same rebuttal: “While I was in the Catholic Church, I never heard the Gospel, or Jesus. Now I am saved, and have a relationship with Jesus, and can go straight to Jesus in prayer, not Mary or the Saints. I only need the Bible (God’s word) for my understanding of Jesus, and Christianity, not tradition, and the Catholic Church. Now that I am saved, I have assurance of Heaven.” ; and on and on it goes, and where it stops, no one knows.
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Catholic4aReasn
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What about them? Do we need to love one another? Absolutely? Is it was incorperates us into the body of Christ? Not according to God’s word.
In Christ,
Nancy
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Catholic4aReasn
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Hi believers! 
believers:
According to Scripture, Christ established a specific Church with specific teaching on the foundation of the apostles. That Church is visible, recognizable, and still in existence today.
I speak these things to you in love believer. I have no doubt of you deep love for the Lord!!!
In Christ,
Nancy
Water baptism is the normative means God uses for incorperating people into his Body, not the exclusive means. That’s a fairly commonly held misconception.
Personal beliefs aren’t necessarily absolute truth. They differ from person to person and often time conflict with one another. One should strive to belong to the Church Christ gave us rather than the church of personal belief. It’s the church of personal belief idea that has split and resplit the church over the past 500 years to the point that the unity Christ prayed for seems impossible. One can sincerely believe he’s right yet be sincerely wrong.
According to Scripture, Christ established a specific Church with specific teaching on the foundation of the apostles. That Church is visible, recognizable, and still in existence today.
I speak these things to you in love believer. I have no doubt of you deep love for the Lord!!!
In Christ,
Nancy
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Catholic4aReasn
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Non-Catholics who are baptised in the trinitarian formula aren’t considered “Catholic” but rather, more generically “Christian” because they aren’t in full communion with the Catholic Church:
Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Cathoolic Church: “For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptised are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brother by the children of the Catholic Church.” (CCC# 1271)
In Christ,
Nancy
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believers
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Hi Nancy, How can baptism be only the normative? It’s actually the basis of Catholicism. You cannot be Catholic if you are not baptized. In other words, you must first be freed from sin thru water baptism to be one of God’s children. From that point on, you can now enter the gateway to other sacraments. If you do not believe this then you are not part of the Catholic church and probably considered a heretic.Hi believers!
Water baptism is the normative means God uses for incorperating people into his Body, not the exclusive means. That’s a fairly commonly held misconception.
Personal beliefs aren’t necessarily absolute truth. They differ from person to person and often time conflict with one another. One should strive to belong to the Church Christ gave us rather than the church of personal belief. It’s the church of personal belief idea that has split and resplit the church over the past 500 years to the point that the unity Christ prayed for seems impossible. One can sincerely believe he’s right yet be sincerely wrong.
According to Scripture, Christ established a specific Church with specific teaching on the foundation of the apostles. That Church is visible, recognizable, and still in existence today.
I speak these things to you in love believer. I have no doubt of you deep love for the Lord!!!
In Christ,
Nancy
her·e·tic (hĕr’ĭ-tĭk) pronunciation
n.
A person who holds controversial opinions, especially one who publicly dissents from the officially accepted dogma of the Roman Catholic Church.
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Catholic4aReasn
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Hi Earl!
I didn’t make myself clear Earl. Sorry about that.
The Church teaches that:
“God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but He Himself is not bound by his sacraments (CCC#1257).”
“Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made a partaker, in a way know to God, of the Paschal mystery. Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of His Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had know its necessity (CCC#1260).”
So, Earl, what I meant by “normative” is that Christ has ordained that Baptism is the means by which one is incorporated into His Body, but God will not hold a person’s ignorance of that fact against him. God is not bound by the decrees to which He binds us. He can and does operate outside of them.
In Christ,
Nancy
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believers
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Hi Nancy, the CCC states, that “every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of the [Roman Catholic Church], but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved.” So, how does one do the the will of God?Hi Earl!
I didn’t make myself clear Earl. Sorry about that.
The Church teaches that:
“God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but He Himself is not bound by his sacraments (CCC#1257).”
“Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made a partaker, in a way know to God, of the Paschal mystery. Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of His Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had know its necessity (CCC#1260).”
So, Earl, what I meant by “normative” is that Christ has ordained that Baptism is the means by which one is incorporated into His Body, but God will not hold a person’s ignorance of that fact against him. God is not bound by the decrees to which He binds us. He can and does operate outside of them.
In Christ,
Nancy
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Catholic4aReasn
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As you stated above, that would be determined by the individuals’ understanding of it.
In Christ,
Nancy
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believers
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Nancy, I believe that God will judge every person’s heart whether they know the scriptures or not. Whether they were baptized with water or not. He will determine whether our heart is of love or hate and no in between. Those are the two opposites that separate Heaven and Hell. Catholic or Protestant, it doesn’t matter. God accepts the loving and rejects the hateful.As you stated above, that would be determined by the individuals’ understanding of it.
In Christ,
Nancy
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NotWorthy
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But Believers, if you’ve studied the Scriptures, how can you claim ignorance of what they teach. If you know there is a Church that Jesus established, shouldn’t you learn what it teaches and why it teaches it? Ignorance is a valid excuse for those who have no chance to learn, but…
Notworthy
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Rebecca_New
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:whacky:Excuse me but i wasn’t harassing you, I think you got that all wrong. You were making fun of me because i wasn’t a CATHOLIC. I didn’t say you are influence by SATAN, but now i think you are.
Why are you coming to my thread and harass me here. At least i respected you when you were making fun of me in the other thread. All i can say is walk in love. I will pray for you.
If you say you follow God and his law’s why are you not walking in love?
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Catholic4aReasn
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We agree that God will judge every person’s heart Earl. Amen to that! He knows our hearts even better than we do. He knows the reasons behind rejection of Him or His Church even better than the rejecters do themselves. It’s according that that they will be judged. There will be no excuses when we stand before God.
In Christ,
Nancy
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