Walmart walkout: workers mount black Friday job action

[austenbosten]

I strongly support a living wage, not a minimum wage. The wage should be adjusted in response to the cost of living in each area. In my opinion, far too many workers do not make anywhere near enough money to support their family. I know of a family who both work jobs that pay a low wage. Its above minimum wage but not by much. They STILL cannot support their family without assistance from welfare. It should not be like that. Companies need to stop being so greedy and start paying their employees a fair wage!

I also believe that all non-essential businesses should close on Sundays, all major holidays, and ideally all Christian holy days as well. I really don’t see any of this happening anytime in the near future.

As others have said, greed is a huge problem in this nation. I think that all people should do their best to avoid shopping on Sundays, Christian holidays, major secular holidays, and on Black Friday. I am definitely not going shopping on Black Friday.

I’m with you on non-essential businesses be closed, and perhaps limited hours for Sundays (I do enjoy having brunch with my RCIA sponsors after Mass).

As for wage, I strongly disagree with you. Companies do give a lot to employees. There is far more dollars going to employees than just wages. You also have to count the benefits.

Walmart grants its employees:

• Consumer-directed health plans, including Health Reimbursement Accounts (HRA) plans and a high-deductible plan with a Health Savings Account (HSA). Highlights include:

•     100 percent coverage for eligible network preventive care

•     $4 co-pay on thousands of eligible generic drugs

•     Maternity Program – personal support network before, during and after pregnancy

• HMO plans (available on a location-by-location basis)

• Dental insurance

• Free confidential counseling and health information service

• Quit Tobacco program

• Company-paid life insurance for associates; optional and dependent life insurance available

• Accidental death & dismemberment insurance (AD&D)

• Critical illness insurance

• Accident insurance

• Short- and long-term disability insurance

• Associate Eyewear Program

• **401(k) plan**

• ** Associate Stock Purchase Plan**

• Associate Discount Card: various discounts in-store and online at Walmart.com, including 10 percent off fresh fruits and vegetables for Walmart associates/annual membership for Sam’s Club associates

• Exclusive discounts on travel, entertainment and more

• Military differential pay

In addition Walmart offers the lowest prices to its customers. If wages were to be increased, guess what will increase prices.

But Walmart has like loads of money! They can afford to pay more.

Yeah they have loads of money, but they would rather use it to employ more people and provide more affordable goods to the poor. They also have to use what money they have left to give back to the shareholders (and those shareholders include the very “poor” workers of Walmart) otherwise people will not buy Walmart stock and Walmart would go bust. Even though Walmart has $443.85 Billion dollars in Revenues, after Expenses and Taxes, Walmart is left with roughly $16 Billion.

So how about that money goes to the employees, let say they do that…they take $16 Billion and disperse it amongst their 2.2 Million employees. Each employee will see an increase of $727.27 for the year. That’s about $60 a month, or $30 per pay period. or roughly $0.38 increase per hour

However that will mean Walmart would not be able to invest in new stores, so there will be no chance of new people getting a job there; and most importantly there will be NO CASH left for the company. So by any chance Walmart sales are not as strong as the previous month, Walmart would have to slash and fire off many people…cause a business without cash, is a dead business.

So folks while it is nice to be all lovey-dovey with “feel-good” fantasies of “Workers of the world, Unite!” and “social justrice” The reality of Economics, and Accounting does not bode well.

 

[austenbosten]

Who decides what a living wage is?

Exactly! and what precisely is a “living wage” it is subjective not objective. To some people $9.00/hour job is sustainable…to many it’s not. To some people (like in expensive cities) $50,000/year job is not a “living wage”

The whole “living-wage” argument can easily be debunked when you take the fact that no one objectively can claim what a “living-wage” truly is.

 

[Seeker1961]

Who decides what a living wage is?

Can you pay rent? Can you get yourself to and from work? Can you buy food? Can you keep the lights and heat on and the water running? Can you afford to pay your portion of your health benefits? Can you afford a phone so that your employer can reach you?

If you can’t afford those essentials without government assistance on 40 hours a week of work, then you aren’t getting a living wage.

There was a time in this country where even the most menial jobs paid enough to do all of that. Now, we have people working MORE than 40 hours a week who can’t say yes to those questions.

 

[Seamus_L]

Pretty much a guarantee that the day after Black Friday, we’ll be watching videos of mobs rampaging through stores acting like lunatics.

 

[Pork_Roll]

In addition Walmart offers the lowest prices to its customers. If wages were to be increased, guess what will increase prices.

There is more to life than getting as much “****” as possible for the lowest cost. There is happiness first and foremost to consider. Maybe we would have less without Walmart, but we could have more happiness.

 

[austenbosten]

Can you pay rent? Can you get yourself to and from work? Can you buy food? Can you keep the lights and heat on and the water running? Can you afford to pay your portion of your health benefits? Can you afford a phone so that your employer can reach you?

If you can’t afford those essentials without government assistance on 40 hours a week of work, then you aren’t getting a living wage.

There was a time in this country where even the most menial jobs paid enough to do all of that. Now, we have people working MORE than 40 hours a week who can’t say yes to those questions.

So with those parameters, does that mean a man working in D.C. living in a penthouse in Manhattan, and suffering numerous health ailments due to poor diet, lack of exercise, heavy smoking, drinking and drug abuse and has the newest iPhones working only 40 hours…the company should pay him enough for that?

Do you see it’s not that easy.

And NO there was never a time menial jobs provided all that. Those people who had those jobs didn’t have health insurance, or a phone, or a car and very few electronics…heck some of them didn’t even have indoor plumbing.

 

[austenbosten]

There is more to life than getting as much “****” as possible for the lowest cost. There is happiness first and foremost to consider. Maybe we would have less without Walmart, but we could have more happiness.

Tell that to the poor, struggling family of six
I’m sure mom will be reeeeeaal happy knowing she will have to go to Goodwill for her kids clothes and the Food Bank for groceries.

There are some people in this nation who do need low prices, because they aren’t as well-off as you and I are.

So much for Social Justice I guess

 

[Pork_Roll]

Tell that to the poor, struggling family of six I’m sure mom will be reeeeeaal happy knowing she will have to go to Goodwill for her kids clothes and the Food Bank for groceries.

I’m just telling you that the church supports small and local businesses, not big and international. Walmart is not from a catholic business model. Your local family run grocery store is.

 

[austenbosten]

I’m just telling you that the church supports small and local businesses, not big and international. Walmart is not from a catholic business model. Your local family run grocery store is.

Really, where does the Church say that?

I think the Church is not seeking to put 2.2 million people out of work and place a financial burden on millions of poor and middle class families, because it’s not a Catholic business

BTW I highly doubt every small, local, family-run store is running a Catholic business model…especially if it’s an Islamic, Jewish or Atheist run family store.

 

[Pork_Roll]

Really, where does the Church say that?

Another way of looking at it is that the church is opposed to both Marxism/statism and liberal capitalism.

Laborem Exercens: Christian tradition has never upheld this right (ownership or property) as absolute and untouchable. On the contrary, it has always understood this right within the broader context of the right common to all to use the goods of the whole of creation:** the right to private property is subordinated to the right to common use, to the fact that goods are meant for everyone**.

This would apply to the ownership of businesses, that ownership also should be subordinated to the right to common use, meaning that the weak should be protected from the strong.

Caritas in Veritate: in Rerum Novarum, written when, as a result of the Industrial Revolution, the idea was first proposed — somewhat ahead of its time — that the civil order, for its self-regulation, also needed intervention from the State for purposes of redistribution.

There it is, much to the dismay of the GOP. The catholic church teaches that the State needs to intervene in a market economy so that there is a just redistribution of wealth.

 

[ishii]

Another way of looking at it is that the church is opposed to both Marxism/statism and liberal capitalism.

You are only half right. The Church is opposed to Socialism/Marxism/Statism. But the Church is not opposed to Capitalism in the same way. Just because the Church in Rerum Novarum mentions the need for some income redistribution does not mean that the Church is condemning Capitalism. We have had some income redistrubution going on for what, 100 years? I don’t think anyone would suggest that America has not been a capitalist country for that time just because of its tax rates. And I don’t think Rerum Novarum needs to be a cause for dismay among the GOP. However, perhaps with the guys we have in office now we are slowly on balance becoming more socialistic than capitialistic and that is too bad - free markets generally work, socialism doesn’t.

That said, I do not like Walmart. If I worked there I would be making every effort to find a different job.

Ishii

 

[Megan7]

I hope this gains momentum and gives Wal-Mart a big hit to their profits this season.

foxnews.com/us/2012/11/16/walmart-walkout-workers-mount-black-friday-job-action/

I have never shopped on Black Friday. So, I was wondering, how much do people save, when they shop on black friday? Is it 50% off, or more? What exactly is the amount?

It must be huge if they are willing to wake up at midnight to go shopping? I do not get it…

I thought you could get really good deals after Christmas, and you save the gifts for the following year. I had an Aunt who had her Christmas shopping done months in advance because of this
Thanks

 

[Seeker1961]

So with those parameters, does that mean a man working in D.C. living in a penthouse in Manhattan, and suffering numerous health ailments due to poor diet, lack of exercise, heavy smoking, drinking and drug abuse and has the newest iPhones working only 40 hours…the company should pay him enough for that?

Do you see it’s not that easy.

And NO there was never a time menial jobs provided all that. Those people who had those jobs didn’t have health insurance, or a phone, or a car and very few electronics…heck some of them didn’t even have indoor plumbing.

I grew up in a working class neighborhood in the late 60’s. People worked for Shop Rite (a grocery store), a local factory that made explosives, another factory that made the little plastic lids that go on lighter fluid and a handful of folks had office jobs. Neither my parents or my friends parents graduated college.

Yet, we all had houses, at least one car, the lights were on, the pantry was full, and if Dad worked a second job or a lot of overtime we got a vacation. We all went to the MD when we needed to also, so I’m guessing we had some kind of insurance. Quite a few of us even went to Catholic school.

So, yes-there was a time in the not too distant past where what we would today call “menial labor” provided just fine for families. Sure, we didn’t have the latest and greatest goodies, but we didn’t know we were missing anything.

Go back one generation more-my parents had homes, with indoor plumbing-while my grandparents worked for factories. Again, there wasn’t a lot of extra, but nobody needed government assistance to sustain those basic needs of housing, food, power, transportation and healthcare.

There is a study out titled “Retail’s Hidden Potential” that shows exactly what a rise in the pay rate for full time retail workers would do for the economy-and it’s NOT the horror story the CEO’s want you to think. You really want to get us out of this recession, read that study and see how easily it could be done.

demos.org/publication/retails-hidden-potential-how-raising-wages-would-benefit-workers-industry-and-overall-economy

 

[stevegravy]

This is one of the key questions that anti-union people do not like to deal with. Why should a CEO’s pay be rising exponentially, while worker wages and benefits are stagnant or falling?

It is an unfortunate fact that most people will not behave fairly unless they are legally compelled to do so…contracts.

John

Why does Tom Brady get paid so much and the concession workers get minimum wages. Players with star status are way overpaid by their contracts. The NFL is very discriminatory. We need a law to make this fair.

 

[SamH]

I’m just telling you that the church supports small and local businesses, not big and international. Walmart is not from a catholic business model. Your local family run grocery store is.

Because a mom and pop business would never take advantage of their employees.

My sister worked at a small mom and pop in a small town. She worked off the clock at least an hour a day and was expected to keep her weekends free in case the owner needed a babysitter - for free. No overtime, no benefits, no paid vacation. Eventually Wal-Mart built a store a town over and put them out of business - no one in my family shed a tear.

 

[stevegravy]

I’m with you on non-essential businesses be closed, and perhaps limited hours for Sundays (I do enjoy having brunch with my RCIA sponsors after Mass).

As for wage, I strongly disagree with you. Companies do give a lot to employees. There is far more dollars going to employees than just wages. You also have to count the benefits.

Walmart grants its employees:

• Consumer-directed health plans, including Health Reimbursement Accounts (HRA) plans and a high-deductible plan with a Health Savings Account (HSA). Highlights include:
• 100 percent coverage for eligible network preventive care
• $4 co-pay on thousands of eligible generic drugs
• Maternity Program – personal support network before, during and after pregnancy
• HMO plans (available on a location-by-location basis)
• Dental insurance
• Free confidential counseling and health information service
• Quit Tobacco program
• Company-paid life insurance for associates; optional and dependent life insurance available
• Accidental death & dismemberment insurance (AD&D)
• Critical illness insurance
• Accident insurance
• Short- and long-term disability insurance
• Associate Eyewear Program
• 401(k) plan
• Associate Stock Purchase Plan
• Associate Discount Card: various discounts in-store and online at Walmart.com, including 10 percent off fresh fruits and vegetables for Walmart associates/annual membership for Sam’s Club associates
• Exclusive discounts on travel, entertainment and more
• Military differential pay

In addition Walmart offers the lowest prices to its customers. If wages were to be increased, guess what will increase prices.

But Walmart has like loads of money! They can afford to pay more.

Yeah they have loads of money, but they would rather use it to employ more people and provide more affordable goods to the poor. They also have to use what money they have left to give back to the shareholders (and those shareholders include the very “poor” workers of Walmart) otherwise people will not buy Walmart stock and Walmart would go bust. Even though Walmart has $443.85 Billion dollars in Revenues, after Expenses and Taxes, Walmart is left with roughly $16 Billion.

So how about that money goes to the employees, let say they do that…they take $16 Billion and disperse it amongst their 2.2 Million employees. Each employee will see an increase of $727.27 for the year. That’s about $60 a month, or $30 per pay period. or roughly $0.38 increase per hour

However that will mean Walmart would not be able to invest in new stores, so there will be no chance of new people getting a job there; and most importantly there will be NO CASH left for the company. So by any chance Walmart sales are not as strong as the previous month, Walmart would have to slash and fire off many people…cause a business without cash, is a dead business.

So folks while it is nice to be all lovey-dovey with “feel-good” fantasies of “Workers of the world, Unite!” and “social justrice” The reality of Economics, and Accounting does not bode well.

What benefits do the concession workers get at Gillett Stadium?

 

[austenbosten]

What benefits do the concession workers get at Gillett Stadium?

I don’t know, I’m not an employee benefits information kiosk. Try looking it up

BTW what does this have to do with Walmart?

 

[Jimmygill88]

There are multiple examples of unionized Catholic teachers and other unionized workers.

It would…off 99% of Catholics? Interesting statistic and complete nonsense. I grew up in a pro-union Catholic household, among many, many in my area. I suspect that this not uncommon.

It’s not in the Gospel…no there’s a strong argument. The list of what is not in the Gospel is much longer that the things that are.

It is, however, in Church teaching:

Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church (2004)

Correct! I know a couple of nuns and a priest who are active in a teaching union. Interesting fact. Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother was a very proud honorary Trade Union member.

 

[stevegravy]

I don’t know, I’m not an employee benefits information kiosk. Try looking it up

BTW what does this have to do with Walmart?

Everyone is gripping about CEO compensation compared to hourly worker compensation, the focus on Wal-Mart. I am only trying to point out parallels in the world like the NFL say Tom Brady’s salary compared to concession workers wages. It could be movie stars compared to the ticket taker at a movie theater.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Everyone is gripping about CEO compensation compared to hourly worker compensation, the focus on Wal-Mart. I am only trying to point out parallels in the world like the NFL say Tom Brady’s salary compared to concession workers wages. It could be movie stars compared to the ticket taker at a movie theater.

Here was my response in the Twinkee thread on this issue.

I actually didn’t complain about CEO salaries, but I am never at a loss for an opinion, so here goes. I think one difference is that we can actually see and measure the quarterbacks performance and tell whether he is overpaid or underpaid. Where as with CEOs it gets a little trickier. CEOs can have good performance for two reasons, one is that they make prudent decisions, or they get lucky. For example, if you were a bank CEO from 2000-2006 you didn’t need a lot of intelligence for your firm to do good and make a lot of money. The problem is that it is hard to disentangle these two and the other problem is that there are incentive problems that stem from the principal agent problem.

So CEO is a reasonable topic to discuss.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princip…3agent_problem