Walmart walkout: workers mount black Friday job action

[oldcelt]

Exactly, people have nowadays this romantic idea about small businesses…they would be the first to complain about the much higher prices small business would have to charge because of more complicated logistics and all the other costs involved. Just ask grandpa how many days a person had to work in order to make enough money to buy say a pair of jeans at those old time stores. You need not work one hour to make enough money to buy jeans at Walmart.
And they also forget that with those old time small businesses there is a lot of running around to compare prices, and buy bread here, meat there, clothes for the kids elsewhere, than drive once more to buy office supplies, …Reality is shopping was a major chore back then, and it still in countries with only small stores. I come from a country like that. We waste so much time running from store to store…If you have kids, it’s a nightmare, Dragging them from place to place. When I came to America I loved Walmart. Saves my time and money…

Wow…to you and Stinkcat…I doubt the church would agree with either of you.

john

 

[stinkcat_14]

Wow…to you and Stinkcat…I doubt the church would agree with either of you.

john

then cite the church teaching that disagrees.

 

[oldcelt]

then cite the church teaching that disagrees.

Look up the church teachings on labor unions…I found them…I’m certain you can.
Regarding the small business aspect…that was truly beyond my personal belief to reply charitably.

John

 

[oldcelt]

1. I have nothing against corporations making profits. They wouldn’t be in business otherwise. I am against the unethical business practices of WalMart, as well as their unbridled greed. And as I said before, their prices are not really that great, at least not in my experience.
2. Greed is a sin as well. Furthermore, you’re making an assumption that I’m envious–an assumption with far less basis than my assumption that WalMart and the Walton family are driven by greed.
3. You’re assuming quite a bit by calling me “higher middle class.” I’m not poor, but I’m hardly “higher middle class.” Furthermore, WalMart has a history of driving the competition out of business, and then raising their prices.
4. No, I’m not kidding. WalMart exploits poor, undereducated workers who have few other options. Most people who work at WalMart (pharmacists, optometrists, opticians, and store management excluded) don’t earn a living wage. Yes, to me, that is exploitation, when you consider the huge net income of WalMart.
5. If WalMart provides you with the best prices available, I don’t fault you for shopping there. I sometimes choose to as well. However, I acknowledge the fact that the benefit I receive from their lower prices (when they are in fact, lower), comes at a price, and that price is the ridiculously low wages they pay their employees.

If my Catholic upbringing doesn’t fail me…greed is one of the seven deadly sins.

Yet…those defending them can still get a cheap TV.

John

 

[rlg94086]

If my Catholic upbringing doesn’t fail me…greed is one of the seven deadly sins.

Yet…those defending them can still get a cheap TV.

John

How do you know that Walmart executives are guilty of the sin of greed, and why would a Deist care?

 

[oldcelt]

How do you know that Walmart executives are guilty of the sin of greed, and why would a Deist care?

Because I care for the welfare of my fellow creatures regardless of their religious affiliations.

Regarding the first question…I was responding to a rather callous post about small business…what is the Walton family worth?

John

 

[Aramis]

Nobody is forced to work at Walmart.

There are some who are coerced. Some by the government and circumstance, others by circumstance alone. And when broke and unemployed, living in a place that’s inimical to unsheltered life, the need to obtain employment in order to not become homeless is rather quick a compulsion.

A friend of mine, convicted of misdemeanor, lived within safe walking distance only of a WalMart (when temps can hit -30°F, before wind chill, a mile is a dangerous walk even when clothed for it)… his Parole required being employed within 30 days of release. The only place that would hire him in that timespan was Walmart. He had to take the job or go back to the city jail for a year.

Another several people I know had to take jobs at walmart because they had been terminated (without prejudice) from McDonalds during a down-sizing… and Walmart was the only place within safe walking distance of home that was hiring.

 

[ishii]

If my Catholic upbringing doesn’t fail me…greed is one of the seven deadly sins.

Yet…those defending them can still get a cheap TV.

John

Don’t forget envy - there is a lot of that among those who criticize the “evil” rich.

Ishii

 

[rlg94086]

Because I care for the welfare of my fellow creatures regardless of their religious affiliations.

Regarding the first question…I was responding to a rather callous post about small business…what is the Walton family worth?

John

It’s a lot. Does that mean they are greedy? If someone is more successful and has more than you, are they automatically greedy? If your answer is yes, you may have a problem with the sin of envy…

 

[RyanBlack]

It’s a lot. Does that mean they are greedy? If someone is more successful and has more than you, are they automatically greedy? If your answer is yes, you may have a problem with the sin of envy…

Or perhaps not. And the Walton family may very well be guilty of the sin of greed. It’s not an unreasonable suspicion, when you consider how little most WalMart employees are paid and the fact that if the Walton family’s worth were a mere 1% of what it is now, it would still be in the tens of millions.

 

[ishii]

Forget about God made man
But he used the monkey to do it
Apes in the plan
We’re all here to do it
I can walk like an ape
Talk like an ape
I can do what a monkey can do
God made man
But a monkey supplied the glue

Are we not men?
We are Devo

…I hope that clears it up for you, ishii.

How about this:

I think I’m so educated and I’m so civilized
'Cos I’m a strict vegetarian
But with the over-population and inflation and starvation
And the crazy politicians
I don’t feel safe in this world no more
I don’t want to die in a nuclear war
I want to sail away to a distant shore and make like an ape man

I’m an ape man, I’m an ape ape man
I’m an ape man I’m a King Kong man I’m ape ape man
I’m an ape man

That makes sense to me.

Ishii

 

[TimeEntrance]

Coal miners and many other class of workers were once little more than slaves who could lose their jobs. Then the unions changed all that, creating the great middle class in the process.

The decline of unions had led to lower real wages and a greater disparity in earnings. I, for one, hope this spurs more interest in union membership.

John

True.

Collective bargaining in and of itself is not bad. Some - not all - unions can shoot themselves in the foot in today’s America with global competition. But Walmart is not about to pick up and leave the United States. Of course, employees in non-skilled, entry-level positions are easy to replace.

Traditionally, union wages helped people provide for their families not merely themselves so they could jet-set around the world. And if one company can not afford to pay their employees say… $8.00 and hour a wealthier company likely can.

There is no intrinsic reason a dentist should make $200,000 a year putting in 40 or less hours a week. Mind you… they can command that money but collective bargaining has helped non-skilled UPS workers earn something like $8.00 an hour for part-time work. The latter is not simply a matter of greed. If union members in building trades can command $40,000 a year that helps them provide for their families they are not more guilty of greed than the dentist.

Originally, I got into biology with the goal of getting into dental school. From dental school I hoped (eventually) it would become miraculously possible for me to get into graduate school and a residency for the specialty of oral and maxillofacial surgery. That would give me a D.D.S. and an M.D. as degrees. I could earn around a half million dollars a year. Nothing in the heavens says a maxillofacial surgeon should make that much. It’s partly due to my own personal greed that I hoped to get into that profession and earn that kind of salary. Pride too for social status.

Really… we all could live in large tents and eat with our hands. People in unions just want a certain comfort level of living. Nothing evil.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_and_maxillofacial_surgery

 

[ishii]

True.

There is no intrinsic reason a dentist should make $200,000 a year putting in 40 or less hours a week. Mind you… they can command that money but collective bargaining has helped non-skilled UPS workers earn something like $8.00 an hour for part-time work. The latter is not simply a matter of greed. If union members in building trades can command $40,000 a year that helps them provide for their families they are not more guilty of greed than the dentist.

I am trying to understand you. Are you saying that there’s no reason why a dentist should make $200,000 a year but a guy sorting packages for UPS make $8/hr? Because I can think of a lot of reasons for that, can’t you? Being a Dentist requires a small fortune to complete the necessary schooling. Then you have to invest a lot of money upfront to start a practice? You are responsible for a lot - if you screw up, it could cause intense pain or oral damage. On the other hand, the UPS guy needs to merely memorize some zip codes and be able to lift 40 lbs. If he screws up, nothing really bad happens - someone gets their parcel late.

Ishii

 

[rlg94086]

Or perhaps not. And the Walton family may very well be guilty of the sin of greed. It’s not an unreasonable suspicion, when you consider how little most WalMart employees are paid and the fact that if the Walton family’s worth were a mere 1% of what it is now, it would still be in the tens of millions.

So, being suspicious of others is a Catholic virtue? Interesting.

 

[rlg94086]

How about this:

I think I’m so educated and I’m so civilized
'Cos I’m a strict vegetarian
But with the over-population and inflation and starvation
And the crazy politicians
I don’t feel safe in this world no more
I don’t want to die in a nuclear war
I want to sail away to a distant shore and make like an ape man

I’m an ape man, I’m an ape ape man
I’m an ape man I’m a King Kong man I’m ape ape man
I’m an ape man

That makes sense to me.

Ishii

 

[rlg94086]

How about this:

I think I’m so educated and I’m so civilized
'Cos I’m a strict vegetarian
But with the over-population and inflation and starvation
And the crazy politicians
I don’t feel safe in this world no more
I don’t want to die in a nuclear war
I want to sail away to a distant shore and make like an ape man

I’m an ape man, I’m an ape ape man
I’m an ape man I’m a King Kong man I’m ape ape man
I’m an ape man

That makes sense to me.

Ishii

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

I am a radical for property rights and I certainly have no problem with Wal-Mart or any other business deciding to be open on these days.

That said, I will do what I think is the right thing: I do NOT shop on Thanksgiving or Christmas, etc. and I will NOT ever do so unless it is an emergency. They will NOT have my money for ripping people from their families unnecessarily.

 

[meltzerboy]

It’s a lot. Does that mean they are greedy? If someone is more successful and has more than you, are they automatically greedy? If your answer is yes, you may have a problem with the sin of envy…

At last report, the Walton family is worth $93 billion. No further comment.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Look up the church teachings on labor unions…I found them…I’m certain you can.
Regarding the small business aspect…that was truly beyond my personal belief to reply charitably.

John

Actually, I have said nothing against church teachings regarding unions. In fact I have said probably little about uniions at all, since the workers are not unionized

So you really can’t cite anything that the Church disagrees with me on.

 

[Seeker1961]

What does an 80’s new wave band like Devo have to do with Walmart? Okay I give up - where can I find the Devo study?

Ishii

I posted it earlier on this thread,but it got ignored in the race to badmouth low wage workers.

What is it with the view of poor people here? Here these folks are,taking low wage jobs for a variety of reasons-it’s all that’s out there, they don’t have the education for whatever reason, maybe they just don’t want to live completely on welfare- and all the good Christians at CAF can do is hope they get fired or lecture them for wanting ONE holiday with their families or a wage that doesn’t require heading to the local food pantry to feed their kids.

News flash folks-being financially successful doesn’t mean God loves you more. That’s the prosperity gospel,and the last I checked, that’s not Catholic teaching. Catholic teaching tells us that if we make our money by treating other people unfairly or dishonestly, we’re not in such a good place ourselves. You can ignore that if you wish, but don’t talk about the “cafeteria” Catholics who ignore the teachings you like to emphasize.

There but for the grace of God…