Wanting to be a Traditional Catholic(m)

  • Thread starter Thread starter heart4home
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Not much difference, IMO. The words mean the same thing. The priest says twice in the OF: "May the body of our Lord Jesus Christ preserve my soul to eternal life.
And then again the same wording for consuming the chalice. May the Blood…

I don’t see any reason for it to be audible, but I often hear it since the priest is wearing a mike. The tone is quieter, and there is no liturgical reason for him to say it aloud. It is one of those nuances that you may find objectionable, but others and the rubrics would disagree.
 
ProVobis said:
If your only reason for coming to Mass is to receive communion, then any valid Mass would fulfill that desire. But that shouldn’t be the only reason, nor is it even required. Only the priest’s communion is required. And interestingly enough, it’s there but you don’t hear the priest’s communion formula (“May the Body/Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ preserve my soul unto life everlasting”) in the OF, which I don’t quite understand. If there’s one part of the Mass which should be audible, it seems that would be it.

As for preference, that word becomes meaningless if they’re not available. Just sayin…
Click to expand...
Quite right.

What I am trying to elaborate here is that much of the squabbling about the EF vs. OF almost seem to forgot that the Eucharist is the same, no matter what Church. Its only us that really change!

Communion is not necessarily the sole reason one attends Mass, although it is very high on the priority list (Not just Eucharist-Communion, Communion with other faithful, too!). Engaging in prayer, hearing God’s word and growing your love of God are all reasons to be there. There are probably many more, too.
 
Whether people chooses to go to the EF or OF is relevant.

In using the terms ordinary and extraordinary, the Church herself has expressed her desire.

Ordinary = commonly used, the standard way things are done, the norm.
Extraordinary = uncommon, not frequently used, not the normal way things are done.

Extraordinary ministers of Communion are supposed to be used infrequently and only when needed. EMHC’s are not supposed to be the norm. Similarly, the Extraordinary Form is not supposed to be as available as the ordinary form. It is not supposed to be the way things are normally done for most people.

Any individual is free to choose to go to the EF exclusively and that it a valid choice. The Church herself however, has expressed her desire that the majority of Catholics should be going to the standard, normal Mass.which the Church herself desires to be the standard form of worship - the Ordinary Form.

You are free to choose the EF but most most people should not be. As has been stated here on CAF before, it is not supposed to be the Church’s daily bread. The local Bishop has the responsibility to see to that.

-Tim-
 
CuriousMike said:
The more faithful may attend the Tridentine craving a more elaborate and descriptive liturgy; Many say that in translating Latin → English, you loose a lot of the description and meaning as English, unlike Latin, has very few terms for similar things.
Click to expand...
FWIW, the new English, as many have suggested, is not a true vernacular but it was necessary to translate to English literally as many vernaculars, such as the 240 of them in Nigeria alone, don’t have the Latinists in those areas to do the translations into those vernaculars.

But you’re right, English is very deficient when things aren’t properly distinguished, as in the Latin or Greek. You also lose the subjunctive, so necessary in prayer. So it’s a corruption of the meaning to some extent. But the people feel they need some translation anyway; whether it’s precise or not becomes secondary.
 
TimothyH said:
but most most people should not be. As has been stated here on CAF before, it is not supposed to be the Church’s daily bread. The local Bishop has the responsibility to see to that.
Click to expand...
Tim, that’s your opinion.

And furthermore, “not normal” has bad connotations and invites trouble so I’d be careful there.
 
ProVobis said:
Such as “communion of the saints”? We’re not all saints yet. 😉
Click to expand...
Many claim that many Angels are present around the Altar during the Mass, and especially the Consecration.

So perhaps being “In Communion” with the Saints is not so far off, after all? :cool:
After all, the Saints were Catholic, weren’t they? 😉
Although I must admit I don’t know whether it is still possible to be “In Communion” with the dead - if so, perhaps my claim just fell over. 🤷
 
CuriousMike said:
Many claim that many Angels are present around the Altar during the Mass, and especially the Consecration.
Click to expand...
Indeed. It’s in the Canon of the Mass or EP1. Translated: “these things to be carried up by the hands of thy holy angel to thy altar on high…”
 
It can be hard standing out in a crowd, and self-conscious, and embarrassing. But what is your heart telling you to do? What are you being called to do?

Mass is not about you or the person next to you or the person across the aisle. It is about the sacrifice of Christ. He loved us enough to become man and die for us? What are we willing to do for him?

I understand your conflict. Growing up, we had to travel an hour in order to attend a Traditional Latin Mass. My husband is military and his first duty station the closest mass was an hour away, too. I was the youth group leader on base and had to juggle my obligation to the kids and my desire for the Latin mass. Currently, my Latin community is 40 minutes away. My family decided (over the course of time) to make the sacrifice of the longer drive. In time, yours may as well.

As for your current attendance, don’t be afraid to wear a veil. I did when growing up and still do now if I am traveling. I do it because, for me, it is a way to humble myself before the Lord. It also helps block my vision so I can focus on the mass. 😉 And my mom was like you, she embarrassed my brothers and I with her “odd” and “extreme” behavior. Lol. But you know what, I’m glad now she did. After a while we didn’t notice, then we joined her. Don’t be afraid to do something because of the opinions of others, even if they are your kids.

And it is a way to evangelize, yes, even to Catholics. I have been asked numerous times what I am wearing and why. People are curious (and fearful) about things that are different. But that can spark something that may lead to a deepening of faith.
 
ProVobis said:
Tim, that’s your opinion.

And furthermore, “not normal” has bad connotations and invites trouble so I’d be careful there.
Click to expand...
No, it is not my opinion.

How can one claim that Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion should not be the norm while the Extraordinary Form can be the norm?

Extraordinary means of Baptism = not the way baptism is normally done.
Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion = not the way communion is normally distributed
Extraordinary Form of the Mass = not the Mass that is normally done.

The words extraordinary and ordinary have specific meanings and in using those words the Church herself has expressed her desire. The Church chose those words, not me.

The only trouble that can come from it is a result of misunderstanding the meaning of the Church’s terminology.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
The Church chose those words, not me.
Click to expand...
I believe the Church expressed the terminology in Latin. “Ordinaria” isn’t necessarily what “ordinary” means in English or Polish, which by the way means “crude.” It seems it wasn’t a long time ago someone here pointed out that “ordinary” could also mean “measly” not exactly a flattering description of the Holy Sacrifice or the Sunday it happens to be said.

In one of his videos Bishop Sample made the statement to the effect that the Pontifical Solemn Mass he was celebrating was the most solemn form of the liturgy, so if you insist on calling the EF the “not normal” liturgy, I guess in the sense that it is not “measly,” I’ll have to agree with you.
 
:rotfl: I guess by that definition (which may be fine in Polish, but not in the context of the liturgy) when we refer to the Bishop as the Local Ordinary, that would mean he’s measly??? Crude???
 
TimothyH said:
No, it is not my opinion.

How can one claim that Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion should not be the norm while the Extraordinary Form can be the norm?

Extraordinary means of Baptism = not the way baptism is normally done.
Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion = not the way communion is normally distributed
Extraordinary Form of the Mass = not the Mass that is normally done.

The words extraordinary and ordinary have specific meanings and in using those words the Church herself has expressed her desire. The Church chose those words, not me.

The only trouble that can come from it is a result of misunderstanding the meaning of the Church’s terminology.

-Tim-
Click to expand...
From Oxford’s Dictionary on my Mac:
extraordinary |ikˈstrôrdnˌerē; ˌekstrəˈôrdn-|
adjective
very unusual or remarkable : the extraordinary plumage of the male | [with clause ] it is extraordinary that no consultation took place.
• unusually great : young children need extraordinary amounts of attention.
• attrib. ] (of a meeting) specially convened : an extraordinary session of the Congress.
• postpositive ] (of an official) additional; specially employed : his appointment as Ambassador Extraordinary in London.
noun (usu. extraordinaries)
an item in a company’s accounts not arising from its normal activities. Compare with exceptional .

It seems as though it can mean a lot of different things. The EF Mass, for example, could be “unusually great.”
 
CuriousMike said:
From Oxford’s Dictionary on my Mac:
extraordinary |ikˈstrôrdnˌerē; ˌekstrəˈôrdn-|
adjective
very unusual or remarkable : the extraordinary plumage of the male | [with clause ] it is extraordinary that no consultation took place.
• unusually great : young children need extraordinary amounts of attention.
• attrib. ] (of a meeting) specially convened : an extraordinary session of the Congress.
• postpositive ] (of an official) additional; specially employed : his appointment as Ambassador Extraordinary in London.
noun (usu. extraordinaries)
an item in a company’s accounts not arising from its normal activities. Compare with exceptional .

It seems as though it can mean a lot of different things. The EF Mass, for example, could be “unusually great.”
Click to expand...
There is liturgical language that is different from common language. Extraordinary, in the meaning of the Church with regard to liturgy, is that which is an exception, out of the ordinary or norm. It would appear that in order to justify and embellish the customary language of the Church, a person such as yourself will hunt for terminology that sets aside the intended meaning the Church has applied to these two liturgies. The reader is not hoodwinked, and recognizes the attempt for what it is, foolishness.
 
Sirach2 said:
There is liturgical language that is different from common language. Extraordinary, in the meaning of the Church with regard to liturgy, is that which is an exception, out of the ordinary or norm. It would appear that in order to justify and embellish the customary language of the Church, a person such as yourself will hunt for terminology that sets aside the intended meaning the Church has applied to these two liturgies. The reader is not hoodwinked, and recognizes the attempt for what it is, foolishness.
Click to expand...
I am not hunting for any particular meaning, or trying to change the Church’s language. The meaning I quoted also notes that the word can mean (and usually means) “Very unusual or remarkable.”

Now for each of the different practices to which “Extraordinary” applies, is it not possible the word is used in different ways for each of those?

If, for example, we were not to attend the EF Mass regularly, then perhaps the Church would include such a request or command with its reference, as it does with the EMHC’s. Instead, what I see as having happened in recent times as additional provisioning for the EF Mass.

Edit: We already see that the EF is not the "Orindary’ form, as it isn’t celebrated in every Parish and/or Diocese.
 
An “I want to be a traditionalist” thread comes up from time to time.

I really want to say, “So?” Get a veil, find a parish three hours away that has the Latin Mass and go. Whadayawant from the rest of us? 🤷

I feel for the OP but she is in a covenant relationship with her husband - the two become one flesh and hopefully one heart and mind. Marriage is a continual compromise where the two become a visible sign of Christ in each others lives by saying “Not my will but thy will be done.”

***Love does not seek its own interest *(1 Corinthians 13:5)

I wanted a Corvette. My wife said no. I didn’t get a Corvette. She wanted Formica furniture. I said no. We didn’t get Formica. Continual compromise. Not mine but thy will be done.

Some will say that the spiritual life is more important than a car and furniture. No doubt true but so is detachment and Americans seem obsessed with perfection. The saints all lived in reality, not concerned with perfection but with sufficiency.

If God dwells inside of you what more could you want? Any spirituality begins in the heart and no one can ever take away what’s inside your heart.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
An “I want to be a traditionalist” thread comes up from time to time.

I really want to say, “So?” Get a veil, find a parish three hours away that has the Latin Mass and go. Whadayawant from the rest of us? 🤷

I feel for the OP but she is in a covenant relationship with her husband - the two become one flesh and hopefully one heart and mind. Marriage is a continual compromise where the two become a visible sign of Christ in each others lives by saying “Not my will but thy will be done.”

***Love does not seek its own interest ***(1 Corinthians 13:5)

I wanted a Corvette. My wife said no. I didn’t get a Corvette. She wanted Formica furniture. I said no. We didn’t get Formica. Continual compromise. Not mine but thy will be done.

Some will say that the spiritual life is more important than a car and furniture. No doubt true but so is detachment and Americans seem obsessed with perfection. The saints all lived in reality, not concerned with perfection but with sufficiency.

If God dwells inside of you what more could you want? Any spirituality begins in the heart and no one can ever take away what’s inside your heart.

-Tim-
Click to expand...
👍
 
heart4home said:
Thank you for your reply. We have actually attended the Extraordinary Mass as a family and neither my husband or older children wished to return.
Click to expand...
If they don’t wish to return, that’s their choice. You can go to the TLM alone. No big deal. Don’t let the naysayers who don’t care for the TLM to dissuade you from what you feel is the right thing to do. You have a heart for tradition. Listen to it.
 
heart4home said:
but attend the Novus Ordo Mass.

I have always craved reverence in the Mass, and believe it is proper for women to cover their heads, but unless God intervenes I will not be able to get my husband to embrace Mass in the Extraordinary Form, and besides it is only offered once per month were we live at a different parish further than our own which we already drive 45 minutes to, passing by the very liberal parish that is only minutes from our home.

If I were to cover my head, I would be the only one in the parish and my husband and older teens / young adult children would be so uncomfortable that I don’t think they’d come with me. We are a large family that still has several younger children and I just wish it could be different.

I can say our priest is more traditional than others in the area, and does add in some Latin phrases, but obviously it is still a Novus Ordum Mass.

We kneel for the consecration, but many stand after receiving. I sometimes feel unsure what we are to do as it seems to show a lack of unity with some standing and some kneeling, but our family does usually continue to kneel.

I guess I just crave the traditionalism that I read about in the Saints lives, or on other traditional Catholic family blogs, but don’t know how to achieve it in my situation, other than to keep praying.

Not even sure why I’m posting, other than it’s been on my heart a lot lately and I could use some encouragement that God understands.
Click to expand...
Wearing your veil could inspire others as this short video attests to. Share it with your family as a teaching moment. If others have a problem with you wearing a covering or kneeling to receive then it is exactly that…their problem.

youtube.com/watch?v=CAfDXsV__2E
 
Denise1957 said:
If they don’t wish to return, that’s their choice. You can go to the TLM alone. No big deal. Don’t let the naysayers who don’t care for the TLM to dissuade you from what you feel is the right thing to do. You have a heart for tradition. Listen to it.
Click to expand...
👍
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top