Wanting to be a Traditional Catholic(m)

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OraLabora said:
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Let’s say I say the Latin OF is not normal in the world of OF. But it’s not called the EF, so I submit the definition of “not normal” doesn’t fit in the context of Summorum Pontificum.
 
Denise1957 said:
If they don’t wish to return, that’s their choice. You can go to the TLM alone. No big deal. Don’t let the naysayers who don’t care for the TLM to dissuade you from what you feel is the right thing to do. You have a heart for tradition. Listen to it.
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At the expense of family unity? Where is the virtue in that?
I can’t think of a better way to alienate the children from tradition.
 
pianistclare said:
At the expense of family unity? Where is the virtue in that?
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I knew someone would chime in with that. Would you object if it were the opposite, that everyone but one member in the family chose to attend the EF? Or even split 50-50?
 
johnnyc176 said:
Wearing your veil could inspire others as this short video attests to. Share it with your family as a teaching moment. If others have a problem with you wearing a covering or kneeling to receive then it is exactly that…their problem.

youtube.com/watch?v=CAfDXsV__2E
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Well anyone can try to go “above” the Church by making up “stories” to push women into “veiling” – but the Church has spoken on the matter.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19761015_inter-insigniores_en.html
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But it must be noted that these ordinances,** probably inspired by the customs of the period, concern scarcely more than disciplinary practices of minor importance, such as the obligation imposed upon women to wear a veil on their head (1 Cor 11:2-16); such requirements no longer have a normative value**.
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Walking_Home said:
Well anyone can try to go “above” the Church by making up “stories” to push women into “veiling” – but the Church has spoken on the matter.
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Of course it’s not an obligation. But it is not forbidden as liberals seem to want it to be. Just as kneeling to receive Communion is not forbidden. Just as celebrating the Mass Ad Orientum is not forbidden. Just as celebrating the Mass in the Extraordinary form is not forbidden. Get use to it.
 
johnnyc176 said:
Of course it’s not an obligation. But it is not forbidden as liberals seem to want it to be. Just as kneeling to receive Communion is not forbidden. Just as celebrating the Mass Ad Orientum is not forbidden. Just as celebrating the Mass in the Extraordinary form is not forbidden. Get use to it.
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It seems that “get used to it” should be said to those who take issue with headcoverings not being required, CITH, and the Mass in OF. Why do you use the term “liberal” if someone doesn’t wear a headcovering or they choose to receive communion standing? Here we go again with using political terms to describe Catholics…
 
johnnyc176 said:
Of course it’s not an obligation. But it is not forbidden. Just as kneeling to receive Communion is not forbidden. Just as celebrating the Mass Ad Orientum is not forbidden. Just as celebrating the Mass in the Extraordinary form is not forbidden. Get use to it.
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What needs to be get used to – is that veiling/covering is not only not an obligation/requirement – but the Catholic Church does Not promote/tie it in with being respectful/humble/etc or what comes out of the imagination of “Colleen Hammond”.
 
Walking_Home said:
What needs to be get used to – is that veiling/covering is not only not an obligation/requirement – but the Catholic Church does Not promote/tie it in with being respectful/humble/etc or what comes out of the imagination of “Colleen Hammond”.
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So tell us how you really feel about it, WH? 😃
 
Walking_Home said:
What needs to be get used to – is that veiling/covering is not only not an obligation/requirement – but the Catholic Church does Not promote/tie it in with being respectful/humble/etc or what comes out of the imagination of “Colleen Hammond”.
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I don’t think that it is the imagination of Colleen that veiling is humble and respectful. Yes, the Church no longer mandates veiling, but that doesn’t mean you can’t continue to do it with the same reason that it once was mandated.
 
Confiteor_Deo said:
I don’t think that it is the imagination of Colleen that veiling is humble and respectful. Yes, the Church no longer mandates veiling, but that doesn’t mean you can’t continue to do it with the same reason that it once was mandated.
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Go read the statement provided in post 59— from the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith – concerning veiling/covering. That is from the Church.
 
Confiteor_Deo said:
I don’t think that it is the imagination of Colleen that veiling is humble and respectful. Yes, the Church no longer mandates veiling, but that doesn’t mean you can’t continue to do it with the same reason that it once was mandated.
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I don’t think that that is what the wearing of headcoverings suggests in today’s Western culture.

We don’t look at Kentucky Derby hats or the hats worn at the last British royal wedding and think, “My, how humble and respectful those women in their hats are!”

berkeleyhat.com/kentucky-derby-hats.html

people.com/people/package/gallery/0,20395222_20485864_20943755,00.html

That’s not what hats mean to us.

In contemporary culture, it’s largely ostentation (or more charitably, dress up).

Likewise, an Indian chief wearing an eagle feather headdress is not being “humble and respectful.” The meaning is completely different.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_bonnet
 
Sirach2 said:
:rotfl: I guess by that definition (which may be fine in Polish, but not in the context of the liturgy) when we refer to the Bishop as the Local Ordinary, that would mean he’s measly??? Crude???
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Touche.
 
heart4home said:
but attend the Novus Ordo Mass.

I have always craved reverence in the Mass, and believe it is proper for women to cover their heads, but unless God intervenes I will not be able to get my husband to embrace Mass in the Extraordinary Form, and besides it is only offered once per month were we live at a different parish further than our own which we already drive 45 minutes to, passing by the very liberal parish that is only minutes from our home.

If I were to cover my head, I would be the only one in the parish and my husband and older teens / young adult children would be so uncomfortable that I don’t think they’d come with me. We are a large family that still has several younger children and I just wish it could be different.

I can say our priest is more traditional than others in the area, and does add in some Latin phrases, but obviously it is still a Novus Ordum Mass.

We kneel for the consecration, but many stand after receiving. I sometimes feel unsure what we are to do as it seems to show a lack of unity with some standing and some kneeling, but our family does usually continue to kneel.

I guess I just crave the traditionalism that I read about in the Saints lives, or on other traditional Catholic family blogs, but don’t know how to achieve it in my situation, other than to keep praying.

Not even sure why I’m posting, other than it’s been on my heart a lot lately and I could use some encouragement that God understands.
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God most certainly understands.

People are drawn to different things. My best analogy is to music; some people like opera; some like classical music; and within both of those genres, there are clear and distinct areas which divide further. And there are a multitude of other forms, not just Rock 'n Roll.

Reverence is as reverence does, and it takes a strong priest to be able to turn around a congregation which is too casual; I have watched it happen, and having attended other parishes, I see it happening elsewhere. Not everywhere, but clearly there is a change afoot. The OF can be every bit as reverent as the Ef, but no matter if they are equally reverent, they have their differences.

They also have their similarities. I remember a hilarious post in a different thread some years ago in which a poster boldly proclaimed that someone going to the EF would not recognize the OF. To which I can only say the poster obviously did not know their backside as distinguished from their elbow. Both forms have an Entrance rite; both have the Liturgy of the Word; both have an Offering; both a Consecration; both have prayers after the Consecration, both have Communion; both have prayers after Communion. Granted the prayers in place are different, but to proclaim that one attending one form could not recognize the other indicates someone who… is so prejudiced that conversation is worthless.

From time to time I attend Mass at our local Trappist Abbey. It is the OF, very reverent; also simple but with great dignity - Sunday Mass approaches an hour and a half. So also is the recitation of the Office; simple, but with great dignity.

So I get it.

And if your family does not wish to attend the EF, then it may be left to you to make the sacrifice and attend the OF with them, for family and marital unity.

One possible suggestion is that you try to squeeze in a bit of the Liturgy of the Hours, even if it is not absolutely regular. That is the other official liturgy of the Church, and one I dearly love (and learned, as a seminarian during Vatican 2, while in college seminary). This you can say privately, or with your husband, or one or more of your children.

OK, maybe with your husband.

Another thought would be to see if there is a parish within a reasonable distance in which you could participate in perpetual Adoration - this would give you a half hour or more of time for quiet, time you spend as you see fit with God. While it is not wildly available (or widely), it is becoming more frequent in parishes.

It may also be possible, from time to time, to make a retreat.
 
Denise1957 said:
If they don’t wish to return, that’s their choice. You can go to the TLM alone. No big deal. Don’t let the naysayers who don’t care for the TLM to dissuade you from what you feel is the right thing to do. You have a heart for tradition. Listen to it.
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I find it somewhat ironic that a traditionalist would recommend sowing family discord on a matter like this.

Isn’t it a traditionalist precept that wives should follow their husband’s lead on matters of fait so long as he wasn’t asking his wife to commit sin? There’s nothing in the OP to suggest he is asking her to sin.
 
otjm said:
God most certainly understands.

People are drawn to different things. My best analogy is to music; some people like opera; some like classical music; and within both of those genres, there are clear and distinct areas which divide further. And there are a multitude of other forms, not just Rock 'n Roll.

Reverence is as reverence does, and it takes a strong priest to be able to turn around a congregation which is too casual; I have watched it happen, and having attended other parishes, I see it happening elsewhere. Not everywhere, but clearly there is a change afoot. The OF can be every bit as reverent as the Ef, but no matter if they are equally reverent, they have their differences.

They also have their similarities. I remember a hilarious post in a different thread some years ago in which a poster boldly proclaimed that someone going to the EF would not recognize the OF. To which I can only say the poster obviously did not know their backside as distinguished from their elbow. Both forms have an Entrance rite; both have the Liturgy of the Word; both have an Offering; both a Consecration; both have prayers after the Consecration, both have Communion; both have prayers after Communion. Granted the prayers in place are different, but to proclaim that one attending one form could not recognize the other indicates someone who… is so prejudiced that conversation is worthless.

From time to time I attend Mass at our local Trappist Abbey. It is the OF, very reverent; also simple but with great dignity - Sunday Mass approaches an hour and a half. So also is the recitation of the Office; simple, but with great dignity.

So I get it.

And if your family does not wish to attend the EF, then it may be left to you to make the sacrifice and attend the OF with them, for family and marital unity.

One possible suggestion is that you try to squeeze in a bit of the Liturgy of the Hours, even if it is not absolutely regular. That is the other official liturgy of the Church, and one I dearly love (and learned, as a seminarian during Vatican 2, while in college seminary). This you can say privately, or with your husband, or one or more of your children.

OK, maybe with your husband.

Another thought would be to see if there is a parish within a reasonable distance in which you could participate in perpetual Adoration - this would give you a half hour or more of time for quiet, time you spend as you see fit with God. While it is not wildly available (or widely), it is becoming more frequent in parishes.

It may also be possible, from time to time, to make a retreat.
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👍

I’ve noticed the same thing about Mass in our local Benedictine abbey. Why they even have Gregorian chant, imagine that! And in the OF even! The traditions of the Church are a living tradition, not a fossilized one. I defy anyone to claim the abbey’s Mass isn’t part of the ancient traditions of the Church. The Kyrie and Gloria we sang were from the tenth century.

There are so many ways to incorporate tradition into one’s practice,I especially agree with your suggestion of the LOTH, which BTW can be and is chanted in Latin Gregorian chant. The resources are out there to do so.
 
I have another suggestion, heart4home:

If your family doesn’t want to go to Latin Mass but you would love to, then why not compromising? Maybe you could usually go to the OF and on special occasions or once a month or whatever to the EF.
How does that sound?

Maybe your family isn’t drawn to traditional Catholicism but that doesn’t necessarily mean they wouldn’t do you the favor, right?
 
Nitor said:
I have another suggestion, heart4home:

If your family doesn’t want to go to Latin Mass but you would love to, then why not compromising? Maybe you could usually go to the OF and on special occasions or once a month or whatever to the EF.
How does that sound?

Maybe your family isn’t drawn to traditional Catholicism but that doesn’t necessarily mean they wouldn’t do you the favor, right?
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I guess what troubles me about this whole thing is the notion that someone is asking for more and getting less.
Both forms are permitted. Christ is present in each.
Why is one form continually bashed on CAF as “less”?
That seems misleading at best, and at worst, divisive.
Preference for church, parishes, and liturgy is one thing. Very personal.
But really…dividing a family over this? Can we not see the forest for the trees?
A family at Mass together pleases God.
I seriously doubt that on the last day God will look at any of us and complain to us that he was disappointed that we met him at one table over another. But He might question why we thought it was a good idea to break up a family over it.
I’m out.
 
pianistclare said:
That seems misleading at best, and at worst, divisive.
Preference for church, parishes, and liturgy is one thing. Very personal.
But really…dividing a family over this? Can we not see the forest for the trees?
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It seems to me to be part of the “rupture of continuity” which the last two Popes have spoken against and tried to fix.
 
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