Was Christ's resurrection foretold in the Old Testament?

[jamannor]

Where exactly do you find these prophecies of Jesus that he would escape a cursed death on the Cross at all odds? In the Christian bible he is resurrected and is seen by over 500 people, not just elevated.

Hi
I respect your faith, but in my opinion, Jesus never got literally or physically resurrected, though spiritually his status was elevated after the event of Crucifixion. All prophecies of Jesus received from God were fullfilled that he would escape a cursed death on Cross against all odds, so , as a perfect man and ProphetMessenger his status was elevated.This is what I believe others could believe differently, no hatred or compulsion.
Thanks
Bridging gaps between faiths/denomination/religions

 

[NotWorthy]

Hi
I respect your faith, but in my opinion, Jesus never got literally or physically resurrected, though spiritually his status was elevated after the event of Crucifixion. All prophecies of Jesus received from God were fullfilled that he would escape a cursed death on Cross against all odds, so , as a perfect man and ProphetMessenger his status was elevated.This is what I believe others could believe differently, no hatred or compulsion.
Thanks
Bridging gaps between faiths/denomination/religions

Well, you’ve just shown that Jesus is not God. That’s going to fly right in the face of pretty much everyone on this thread, except Valke.

It might be better to start another thread where we can share that theory, rather than taking this thread down that vein.

 

[Nita]

Nita, but I think the OP’s original question was: (paraphrasing)

Did any OT Scriptures attest that the Messiah would suffer, die, and then be resurrected. I haven’t seen anything like that.

The messianic prophecies that I saw described the Messiah in two different ways:

1. Suffering for us (i.e. Isaiah’s Suffering Servant).
2. A triumphant King (i.e. the Lion of Judah).

Little did anybody seem to realize (in the OT times) that both of these types of prophecies were related to Jesus who had to first suffer and die before He rose again in Triumph.

NotWorthy,
The OT Scriptures didn’t spell it out explicitly that He would rise from the dead. If they had, there probably wouldn’t have been the disagreement between the Saduccees and Pharisees regarding whether there even was such a thing as resurrection.

Many of the OT prophecies concerning the Messiah were veiled, so to speak. Even the one as to where He was to be born took “interpretation”.

If the OP is asking whether there are any OT Scriptures that WE can recognize as speaking of the Messiah’s resurrection, my answer would be “yes”. We have at least the one pointed out in the NT Scripture by St. Paul. (At least for Christians that accept the Bible as inerrant.)

If he wants to know if there are any Scripture passages that were recognized by the JEWISH SCHOLARS/PRIESTS at the time of Our Lord, I guess I don’t know; most likely not. Perhaps there were a few God specially graced that might have (like Simeon was graced to go to the temple and recognized the baby Jesus as the Messiah).

Nita

 

[NotWorthy]

If he wants to know if there are any Scripture passages that were recognized by the JEWISH SCHOLARS/PRIESTS at the time of Our Lord, I guess I don’t know; most likely not. Perhaps there were a few God specially graced that might have (like Simeon was graced to go to the temple and recognized the baby Jesus as the Messiah).

Nita

I think that’s what the OP was looking for:

When reciting the creed statement, “On the third day he rose again from the dead in fulfillment of the Scriptures…”,

If that’s the case, I guess we have answered with a resounding, “I don’t know”!!!

 

[NotWorthy]

If the OP is asking whether there are any OT Scriptures that WE can recognize as speaking of the Messiah’s resurrection, my answer would be “yes”. We have at least the one pointed out in the NT Scripture by St. Paul. (At least for Christians that accept the Bible as inerrant.)

Yes, I think now that we know “The Rest of the Story” (Insert your best Paul Harvey voice-over here, please), we can look at the Old Testament verses and say, “Ah, there’s Christ in Jonah and the whale”, and “There’s Christ in Isaac at Mt. Moriah”.

But, again, I don’t see how our Jewish brothers could have successfully reconciled the Suffering Servant of Isaiah with the One “Like the Son of Man” in Daniel as the same Messiah. Sometimes its good to peak at the ending, I guess!

 

[Valke2]

Where? I’m lazy, help me.

God helps those who help themselves. But I’ll make an exception in this case Ezekiel 37:24-28.

And David my servant shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. they shall also follow My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob my servant, in which your fathers have dwelt and they shall dwell there, they and their children, and their children’s children forever; and my servant David shall be their prince forever. Moreover, I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall be an everlasting covenant with them, which I will give them; and I will multiply them and I will set my sanctuary in the midst of them forevermore. And my tabernacle shall be with them: and I will be their God and they will be my people. Then the nations shall know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary will be in the midst of them forevermore.

This is a side track to the point of my thread, but I can’t contain myself from answering these prophecies. Jesus’s crucifixion was justified politically for his being King of the Jews. His crime was enumerated on the cross as “Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews.” Joseph was of the house and family of David, Mary was his wife and so also of that house and family. Christ was sinless, therefore obedient to all the commandements. Christ conquered sin and death, battled against the evil one and won for Israel forgiveness of sin and eternal life.

Even if we accept the fact that he was king of the Jews (he wasn’t), he wasn’t the one shepherd of all Israel that is referred to Eziekel. No one contends that all the Jews followed him. Joseph’s lineage should be irrelevant if you assume he’s not the father. ANd it isn’t just the Messiah who is to obey the commandments. All of Israel is to obey them, easily, during the Messianic Age.

As for why the Messiah will not be GOd. a couple of reasons. The most simple being that God told us He is not a man.

 

[Talmida]

I think you’re right, NotWorthy.

The Messiah in the OT is not described as God, but as a human servant-king who will bring all the exiles back to Israel, and bring peace to the world.

The prophesies included that the Messiah be the direct descendent of David (2 Sam 7:12-13); must gather the Jewish exiles to Israel (Isaiah 11:12); rebuild the temple in Jerusalem (Ezek 37:26-27); bring a time of world peace (Micah 4:3); bring a period of obedience to God’s commandments (Ezek 37:24).

And there have actually been quite a few people claiming to be the Messiah throughout the course of Jewish history. (see Wikipedia article)

Since Jesus did not fulfill the prophesies in a *literal *way, it’s very easy to see why the majority of Jews did not recognize him.

My source for most of this was the Jews for Judaism page on Messianic criteria.

 

[Valke2]

Well, you’ve just shown that Jesus is not God. That’s going to fly right in the face of pretty much everyone on this thread, except Valke.

It might be better to start another thread where we can share that theory, rather than taking this thread down that vein.

As long as Valke is happy. THere are references in Jewiish scripture to a minor messiah descended from the line of Joseph (son of Jacob), who is to die (not sure if it makes reference to resurrection but I seem to recall something about this). But it is clear that this person is not “The” Messiah that we are waiting for and that his death may or may not be necessary as a prerequiste to “The” Messiah. I posted about this a while back. When I have more time, I’ll dig it up and either repost or give the thread.

 

[buffalo]

Christology
…
(8) Finally, the glory of the Messias has been foretold by the Prophets of the Old Testament. The context of such phrases as “I have risen because the Lord hath protected me” (Psalm 3), "My flesh shall rest in hope (Psalm 15), “On the third day he will raise us up” (Hosea 5:15, 6:3), “O death, I will be thy death” (Hosea 13:6-15a), and “I know that my Redeemer liveth” (Job 19:23-27) referred the devout Jewish worshipper to something more than a merely earthly restoration, the fulfilment of which began to be realized in the Resurrection of Christ. This mystery is also implied, at least typically, in the first fruits of the harvest (Leviticus 23:9-14) and the delivery of Jonas from the belly of the fish (Jonah 2). Nor is the Resurrection of the Messias the only element of Christ’s glory predicted by the Prophets. Psalm 67 refers to the Ascension; Joel, ii, 28-32, to the coming of the Paraclete; Is., Ix, to the call of the Gentiles; Mich., iv, 1-7, to the conversion of the Synagogue; Dan., ii, 27-47, to the kingdom of the Messias as compared with the kingdom of the world. Other characteristics of the Messianic kingdom are typified by the tabernacle (Exodus 25:8-9; 29:43; 40:33-36; Numbers 9:15-23), the mercy-seat (Exodus 25:17-22; Psalm 79:1), Aaron the high priest (Exodus 28:1; 30:1; 10; Numbers 16:39-40), the manna (Exodus 16:1-15; Psalm 77:24-25), and the rock of Horeb (Exodus 17:5-7; Numbers 20:10-11; Psalm 104:41). A Canticle of thanksgiving for the Messianic benefits is found in Is., xii.

 

[BeeSweet]

Christology
…
(8) Finally, the glory of the Messias has been foretold by the Prophets of the Old Testament. The context of such phrases as “I have risen because the Lord hath protected me” (Psalm 3), "My flesh shall rest in hope (Psalm 15), “On the third day he will raise us up” (Hosea 5:15, 6:3), “O death, I will be thy death” (Hosea 13:6-15a), and “I know that my Redeemer liveth” (Job 19:23-27) referred the devout Jewish worshipper to something more than a merely earthly restoration, the fulfilment of which began to be realized in the Resurrection of Christ. This mystery is also implied, at least typically, in the first fruits of the harvest (Leviticus 23:9-14) and the delivery of Jonas from the belly of the fish (Jonah 2). Nor is the Resurrection of the Messias the only element of Christ’s glory predicted by the Prophets. Psalm 67 refers to the Ascension; Joel, ii, 28-32, to the coming of the Paraclete; Is., Ix, to the call of the Gentiles; Mich., iv, 1-7, to the conversion of the Synagogue; Dan., ii, 27-47, to the kingdom of the Messias as compared with the kingdom of the world. Other characteristics of the Messianic kingdom are typified by the tabernacle (Exodus 25:8-9; 29:43; 40:33-36; Numbers 9:15-23), the mercy-seat (Exodus 25:17-22; Psalm 79:1), Aaron the high priest (Exodus 28:1; 30:1; 10; Numbers 16:39-40), the manna (Exodus 16:1-15; Psalm 77:24-25), and the rock of Horeb (Exodus 17:5-7; Numbers 20:10-11; Psalm 104:41). A Canticle of thanksgiving for the Messianic benefits is found in Is., xii.

Thank you buffalo! That helps me a good deal.

 

[BeeSweet]

As long as Valke is happy. THere are references in Jewiish scripture to a minor messiah descended from the line of Joseph (son of Jacob), who is to die (not sure if it makes reference to resurrection but I seem to recall something about this). But it is clear that this person is not “The” Messiah that we are waiting for and that his death may or may not be necessary as a prerequiste to “The” Messiah. I posted about this a while back. When I have more time, I’ll dig it up and either repost or give the thread.

I’m not sure, but I believe we Christians believe the person to whom you refer above is John the Baptist. Not sure, but it sounds like him.

 

[Valke2]

Thank you buffalo! That helps me a good deal.

Just taking one of those cited verses at random – Job. Job refers to the time when he will be resurrected. Not the Messiah. No one disputes that God lives, as Job so firmly states. But he’s not referring to a Messiah here. He’s referring to God. ANd he’s not saying that his redeemer will live. But that his redeemer lives.

 

[BeeSweet]

God helps those who help themselves. But I’ll make an exception in this case Ezekiel 37:24-28.

And David my servant shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. they shall also follow My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob my servant, in which your fathers have dwelt and they shall dwell there, they and their children, and their children’s children forever; and my servant David shall be their prince forever. Moreover, I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall be an everlasting covenant with them, which I will give them; and I will multiply them and I will set my sanctuary in the midst of them forevermore. And my tabernacle shall be with them: and I will be their God and they will be my people. Then the nations shall know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary will be in the midst of them forevermore.

Sounds like Jesus the Christ to me. Of course, you’ll have to forgive my bias.

Even if we accept the fact that he was king of the Jews (he wasn’t),

Yes He is. :yup:

…he wasn’t the one shepherd of all Israel that is referred to Eziekel. No one contends that all the Jews followed him.

Sheep led astray need to brought back into the fold. Some can not be led back.

Joseph’s lineage should be irrelevant if you assume he’s not the father.

Mary was Joseph’s wife, and so part of the house and family of David.

ANd it isn’t just the Messiah who is to obey the commandments. All of Israel is to obey them, easily, during the Messianic Age.

Why all of Israel? Man’s free will is taken away after the coming of the Messiah?

As for why the Messiah will not be GOd. a couple of reasons. The most simple being that God told us He is not a man.

Jesus Christ is not merely man, as evidenced in His teachings and most importantly in His resurrection. His earthly incarnation is not all there is, it’s only a tool to help us.

Thank you for indulging me, I enjoy knowing your perspective.

 

[Valke2]

Sounds like Jesus the Christ to me. Of course, you’ll have to forgive my bias.

Why all of Israel? Man’s free will is taken away after the coming of the Messiah?

 

[paarsurrey]

In the Christian bible he is resurrected and is seen by over 500 people, not just elevated.

Hi
Nobody has provided the list of 500 people who are said to have witnessed the event of ascention, unless that is provided and witnesses of the list are individually CrossExamined as per common practice, this should be considered just imaginative or sentimental, that could be understood,yet not to be believed in. To me, witnessing of JesusYeshua ,which he himself gave, should be believed in and preferred, and his witnessing is contrary to what is commonly given to be believed. If you have the list of the 500 people, you are welcome to mention it here, please.Peace
Thanks
Bridging gaps between the faiths/denominations/religions

 

[paarsurrey]

NotWorthy,
The OT Scriptures didn’t spell it out explicitly that He would rise from the dead. If they had, there probably wouldn’t have been the disagreement between the Saduccees and Pharisees regarding whether there even was such a thing as resurrection.

Hi
My submission is that as per the testimony of Jesusyeshua he never died in consequence of the event of Crucifixion; since he did not die, so there is no question of his resurrection and hence ascention. That is the single factual reason why the OT Scriptures didn’t spell it out explicitly that he would rise from the dead and that resounds to me as our friend NotWorthy has also obsereved of Saduccees and Pharisees disagreement regarding whether there even was such a thing as resurrection. This is if I have understood the things correctly.
Thanks
Bridging gaps between the faiths/denominations/religions

 

[NotWorthy]

Hi
Nobody has provided the list of 500 people who are said to have witnessed the event of ascention, unless that is provided and witnesses of the list are individually CrossExamined as per common practice, this should be considered just imaginative or sentimental, that could be understood,yet not to be believed in. To me, witnessing of JesusYeshua ,which he himself gave, should be believed in and preferred, and his witnessing is contrary to what is commonly given to be believed. If you have the list of the 500 people, you are welcome to mention it here, please.Peace
Thanks
Bridging gaps between the faiths/denominations/religions

Do you need ALL 500??? I could give you 11 Apostles, Mary, Mary Magdalene.

10 of these Apostles died very painful deaths rather than deny that Jesus rose from the dead.

Does there really need to be more than that?

BTW, can you provide me 500 witnesses to the “Revelations” given to Mohammed? If not, am I not supposed to believe them?

 

[NotWorthy]

Hi
My submission is that as per the testimony of Jesusyeshua he never died in consequence of the event of Crucifixion; since he did not die, so there is no question of his resurrection and hence ascention. That is the single factual reason why the OT Scriptures didn’t spell it out explicitly that he would rise from the dead and that resounds to me as our friend NotWorthy has also obsereved of Saduccees and Pharisees disagreement regarding whether there even was such a thing as resurrection. This is if I have understood the things correctly.
Thanks
Bridging gaps between the faiths/denominations/religions

But Jesus explicitly DID say that he would die.

Mark 10:32-34

Taking the Twelve aside again, he began to tell them what was going to happen to him. “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and the scribes, and they will codemn him to death and hand him over to the Gentiles who will mock him, spit upon him, scourge him, and put him to death, but after three days he will rise.”

 

[paarsurrey]

Yes, I think now that we know “The Rest of the Story” (Insert your best Paul Harvey voice-over here, please), we can look at the Old Testament verses and say, “Ah, there’s Christ in Jonah and the whale”

Hi
I would make a little insertion here that JesusYeshua himself opted to show the Sign of Jonah to the corrupt adulterous Jews of his time, and this is mentioned in the Gospels in his own words. Could one quote for me the exact total words spoken by JesusYeshua’s in the four Gospels? I think not much of them, ordinarily it is words of the scribes not words of Jesus. JesusYeshua’s Words should be preferred over the words of the scribes. Am I write?
Thanks
Bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions

 

[NotWorthy]

Could one quote for me the exact total words spoken by JesusYeshua’s in the four Gospels? I think not much of them, ordinarily it is words of the scribes not words of Jesus. JesusYeshua’s Words should be preferred over the words of the scribes. Am I write?

No, you are not write.

The words of the Gospels, whether spoken by Jesus or the Scribes, are of equal importance, for the Holy Spirit inspired the writer to put them on paper (or papyrus?) for a reason. They are there to tell the story of Salvation.