Was it Right for Minn Archbishop to Censor Fr. Altier from Relevant Radio?

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One thing I would like everyone to remember is that we all have a duty to follow God’s law and teach the truth. Padre Pio was silenced for 10 years and not permitted to celebrate mass by his bishop. And now he is St. Pio. God bless him with the stigmata but his bishop didn’t like that he was teaching and preaching the truth. John of the Cross was confined to a dark room for 9 months by his bishop and now he is St. John of the Cross. Sister Faustina was reprimanded for her testimony and now she is St. Faustina. So just because a bishop does something, doesn’t mean it is right. I just saw on EWTN this AM that St. Louis Marie deMontfort was punished repeatedly by his bishop for teaching the truth of the faith. He also was not permitted to celebrate Mass. Look at what he has done - Consecration to Jesus through Mary. But he was persecuted for years. And he is now a saint.

You are right that we always don’t know why things are done. But when priests are permitted to water down and change the faith (homosexuality, abortion, etc) and they go unpunished and can continue to do this and then there is a faithful priest who speaks out against these things and he is silenced, I have to wonder if the archdiocese is doing the work of God. Or has it become worldly and of the world.
 
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truedisciple49:
Tim,
The church has spoken. Active homesexuality is wrong. Abortion is wrong. The Catechism of the Catholic Church sets it out. There is no question. When there are priests actively living homosexual lifestyles, allowing lay people to give homilies (not permitted under any circumstances by the church) an archbishop giving the Eucharist to the rainbow sash people (Cardinal Arinze already told ARchbishop Flynn he was not allowed to do this - so the archbishop is not being obedient), there is a big problem in the diocese. The magesterium sets forth the truths of our faith. And this archdiocese is going completely against that truth. But Fr. Altier spoke the truth, He stood up and is taught the true faith. And now he is being silenced. The archbishop has the duty to make sure priests are teaching the truth and he is not doing that. But he is silencing a priest who is willing to go against the culture and speak the truth. I am not sure how much clearer this could be. Please pray.
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I don’t think Archbishop Flynn’s obedience ought to be bandied about here. Besides, he has said that rainbow sash people will no longer be allowed to receive communion: Archbishop Flynn will not allow communion to become ‘battleground’. But apart from that, I am certain that the good Archbishop isn’t “silencing” Fr. Altier in the manner you described. He is not allowing him to participate in apostolates apart from his priestly duties at St. Agnes, which is not at all the same thing.

Fr. Altier has gathered a large following. One that has become overblown and, IMHO, overrated. Just by the passions exhibited in the threads on this forum we can see how deeply Fr. Altier’s words have affected these good folks. I believe the Archbishop wants people to let Fr. Altier minister as he was assigned, instead of making of him what they have made of him, a cult figure. This does not mean that Fr. Altier has styled himself as the leader of any cult, good or bad, but that people are carrying their admiration of him too far. And think the Archbishop is right. These very discussions are evidence enough of that!
 
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Della:
I don’t think Archbishop Flynn’s obedience ought to be bandied about here. Besides, he has said that rainbow sash people will no longer be allowed to receive communion: Archbishop Flynn will not allow communion to become ‘battleground’. But apart from that, I am certain that the good Archbishop isn’t “silencing” Fr. Altier in the manner you described. He is not allowing him to participate in apostolates apart from his priestly duties at St. Agnes, which is not at all the same thing.

Fr. Altier has gathered a large following. One that has become overblown and, IMHO, overrated. Just by the passions exhibited in the threads on this forum we can see how deeply Fr. Altier’s words have affected these good folks. I believe the Archbishop wants people to let Fr. Altier minister as he was assigned, instead of making of him what they have made of him, a cult figure. This does not mean that Fr. Altier has styled himself as the leader of any cult, good or bad, but that people are carrying their admiration of him too far. And think the Archbishop is right. These very discussions are evidence enough of that!
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Ditto. It is to our detriment as Catholics when a non-Bishop takes on a status that usurp’s teaching authority and standing that is exclusively reserved by the Bishop.
 
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truedisciple49:
Tim,
The church has spoken. Active homesexuality is wrong. Abortion is wrong. The Catechism of the Catholic Church sets it out. There is no question. When there are priests actively living homosexual lifestyles, allowing lay people to give homilies (not permitted under any circumstances by the church) an archbishop giving the Eucharist to the rainbow sash people (Cardinal Arinze already told ARchbishop Flynn he was not allowed to do this - so the archbishop is not being obedient), there is a big problem in the diocese. The magesterium sets forth the truths of our faith. And this archdiocese is going completely against that truth. But Fr. Altier spoke the truth, He stood up and is taught the true faith. And now he is being silenced. The archbishop has the duty to make sure priests are teaching the truth and he is not doing that. But he is silencing a priest who is willing to go against the culture and speak the truth. I am not sure how much clearer this could be. Please pray.
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You don’t know why the Bishop did what he did. Your claim that his actions are against God’s will is not proper because a) you don’t know the reason and b) you are not the arbiter of God’s will. I suggest that that is not proper and in fact is wrong. But if you feel that you know better than the one anointed by God, then please continue your diatribe against him.

Peace

Tim
 
I wish people would stop suggesting that just because a bishop is a bishop that we - the laity - should bow down and never question their judgement. Sure they were called by God…so was Judas and even Peter who denied Christ three times (later repented thankfully). Bishops can lead us astray…just look at history. We are not dumb sheep anymore…stop telling us to put our heads in the sand!
 
DVIN CKS:
I wish people would stop suggesting that just because a bishop is a bishop that we - the laity - should bow down and never question their judgement.
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I have no problem with anyone questioning a bishop. I do have a problem with some of the public judgement of this bishop based on rumors.
We are not dumb sheep anymore…stop telling us to put our heads in the sand!
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So what is your solution? You are upset and you are not going to take it anymore? Is that what you are suggesting? If you can’t make a change with public condemnation, what is the purpose? It works with politicians, but that is a different situation. Should bishops be subject to popular opinion (although I don’t know if popular opinion is against this bishop)? Maybe we should vote for bishops?

Peace

Tim
 
Tim,
Where did I suggest that public condemnation of an Archbishop would create change? I have never said anything uncharitable about Archbishop Flynn. I have merely stated that I question his judgement. That is not a crime.

I don’t have the answer…and never claimed to have one. All I know is that the current system is broken. When an orthodox priest who teaches the truth is all of a sudden told to scale back on a public ministry that is obviously thriving, then I’d say something isn’t working right.

Someone in another thread made the comment that what if Fr. Corapi was all of a sudden told that he could no longer preach on EWTN or sell any of his books/tapes. Do you think folks would just say, “Oh well…we shouldn’t question why an outstanding orthodox priest was silenced.” One who - no doubt - has lead many back to their roots or into the Catholic Church. Isn’t that what it ultimately all boils down to anyway…saving souls?
 
Many of today’s bishops and archs remind me of St Athanasius and his fight against the heresy of Arianism.

About half of the bishops of the time subscribed to the heresy and condemned St Athanasius, who had the support of the laity.

While I can understand Archbishop Flynn’s decision, as stated in the response email,
“Fr. Robert Altier is a priest of the Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis in good standing. He wrote to ask me for permission to extend his radio ministry. I reviewed the situation and discerned that a break from his multi-media apostolates might be beneficial to him and to the parish of Saint Agnes. His primary responsibility has been and continues to be as assistant to the pastor there in ministering to the parishioners.”
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I am also wondering why, since he also said
"He has done much good work and is not being “silenced.” "
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he requested www.desertvoice.org remove Fr Altier’s homilies and spiritual presentations. That is illogical since, as another poster pointed out, it is the initiative of someone other than Fr Altier. :confused:
 
DVIN CKS:
Tim,
Where did I suggest that public condemnation of an Archbishop would create change? I have never said anything uncharitable about Archbishop Flynn. I have merely stated that I question his judgement. That is not a crime.
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So what do you expect to accomplish with public berating of a bishop? Does it make you feel better?
I don’t have the answer…and never claimed to have one. All I know is that the current system is broken.
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What system? The Church?
When an orthodox priest who teaches the truth is all of a sudden told to scale back on a public ministry that is obviously thriving, then I’d say something isn’t working right.
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You don’t know why he was asked to scale back his media ministry. Therefore, how do you know that the system isn’t working right?
Someone in another thread made the comment that what if Fr. Corapi was all of a sudden told that he could no longer preach on EWTN or sell any of his books/tapes. Do you think folks would just say, “Oh well…we shouldn’t question why an outstanding orthodox priest was silenced.” One who - no doubt - has lead many back to their roots or into the Catholic Church. Isn’t that what it ultimately all boils down to anyway…saving souls?
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As I noted before, there is no problem with being upset with the bishop. The problem is publically “holding them accountable”. That is a path that is loaded with danger specifically because the bishop is doing the job he has been appointed to by the Holy Spirit whereas we have not been ordained by the Holy Spirit to pass public judgement on the bishop.

Peace

Tim
 
DVIN CKS:
I wish people would stop suggesting that just because a bishop is a bishop that we - the laity - should bow down and never question their judgement. Sure they were called by God…so was Judas and even Peter who denied Christ three times (later repented thankfully). Bishops can lead us astray…just look at history. We are not dumb sheep anymore…stop telling us to put our heads in the sand!
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And what do you suggest we do? There isn’t a shred of evidence that Archbishop Flynn has done anything wrong here. He has made a decision concerning one of his priests, which is his right and duty. Frankly, it’s none of your or my business but only that of Archbishop Flynn and Fr. Altier’s, who admirably, is in full compliance with the directives of the archbishop. We don’t have and never will have the “right” to oppose what any bishop decides to do with a priest under his jurisdiction, and that is just plain that.
 
DVIN CKS:
Someone in another thread made the comment that what if Fr. Corapi was all of a sudden told that he could no longer preach on EWTN or sell any of his books/tapes. Do you think folks would just say, “Oh well…we shouldn’t question why an outstanding orthodox priest was silenced.” One who - no doubt - has lead many back to their roots or into the Catholic Church. Isn’t that what it ultimately all boils down to anyway…saving souls?
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The comparison of Fr. Corapi to Fr. Altier is like comparing apples to oranges.

Fr. Corapi is a member of the order of the Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity (Priests called by God to develop and lead Ecclesial Teams in the Church). Fr. Corapi’s specific responsibility is to Preach/Teach across diocesan boundaries. However, even he seeks permission from a Bishop before he ever comes to a particular diocese.

Fr. Altier is a diocesan Priest whose focus is the flock to which he is assigned by his Bishop.

Furthermore, the more I think about it, I resent the use of the word censor. It implies a motive of a Archbishop that is slanderous. I’ve seen a Bishop cry as he was telling us he has been re-assigned and a Pastor (now a Bishop) cry from the pulpit about his re-assignment. As great as they were for ME, I never considered it a censorship. They have just been called to better and greater things.
 
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Della:
I don’t think Archbishop Flynn’s obedience ought to be bandied about here. Besides, he has said that rainbow sash people will no longer be allowed to receive communion:
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Well, Della, from what I hear from friends who were at the World Marriage Day (Feb. 12), Mass at the Cathedral, the rainbow sash people were out in force, bands proudly diplayed, as they were given Holy Communion. So much for he whom you refer to as “the good archbishop,” and to any obedience he has shown to Rome.

While I have the opportunity, I must again ask my never-answered question: If I find the bishop in an adjacent diocese to be more in sync with Rome, am I allowed to follow him? Or am I forced to either follow my own bishop or physically move to the other diocese?

Anna
 
Anna Elizabeth:
you asked, “While I have the opportunity, I must again ask my never-answered question: If I find the bishop in an adjacent diocese to be more in sync with Rome, am I allowed to follow him? Or am I forced to either follow my own bishop or physically move to the other diocese?”

Follow an adjacent bishop ?? In what way ??

The short answer is NO – a bishop in a different diocese does not have authorty outside of his diocese. And the concept of picking and chosing bishops that “we” decide to follow is like shopping for a priest to hear our confession that will give us the answers that we are confortable with. And like a popular put down in this form it smacks of protestantism.

Br. Mark, OSB
 
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marke:
Anna Elizabeth:
you asked, “While I have the opportunity, I must again ask my never-answered question: If I find the bishop in an adjacent diocese to be more in sync with Rome, am I allowed to follow him? Or am I forced to either follow my own bishop or physically move to the other diocese?”

Follow an adjacent bishop ?? In what way ??

The short answer is NO – a bishop in a different diocese does not have authorty outside of his diocese. And the concept of picking and chosing bishops that “we” decide to follow is like shopping for a priest to hear our confession that will give us the answers that we are confortable with. And like a popular put down in this form it smacks of protestantism.

Br. Mark, OSB
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Sorry for the long quote, but it seems necessary. So, to give an extreme hypothetical here: Had I been in the diocese (archdiocese?) of Arius in the days when he was alive and powerful, it would have been required of me to follow his teachings and example, until he was eventually excommunicated. Is this so?

And quite parenthetically, do you mean that people who “shop for a priest” for confession are behaving like protestants and are doing something bad? Even more important: What does this say for people (some of whom are friends of mine, to my consternation), who take part only in general absolution types of confessions? (Incidentally, these could be quickly ended by my bishop, but aren’t).

Thanks for info.

Anna
 
Eileen T:
I am also wondering why, since he also said he requested www.desertvoice.org remove Fr Altier’s homilies and spiritual presentations. That is illogical since, as another poster pointed out, it is the initiative of someone other than Fr Altier. :confused:
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I sure wish someone would shed some light on this last question which has yet to be addressed by anyone on this forum.
 
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Orogeny:
So what do you expect to accomplish with public berating of a bishop? Does it make you feel better?
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Hardly. I don’t think questioning a bishop’s decision in an open forum is “publicly berating him”. I have not said one word of unkindness about the Archbishop or accused him of something that I have no proof of…merely expressing my own personal opinion of disagreement and sadness that a very good priest whose website I used often as an evangelizing tool is now shut down.
What system? The Church?
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There are and have always been weeds among the wheat. You are mistaking the word “system” for “structure”. I didn’t mean to equate the two.
You don’t know why he was asked to scale back his media ministry. Therefore, how do you know that the system isn’t working right?
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All I know is that people’s souls were being fed by the public ministries (and that of his parishioners) of Fr. Altier. and now they are not. From where I’m sitting, souls can no longer be fed with good orthodox theology and so YES --IMO that tells me that something is wrong.
As I noted before, there is no problem with being upset with the bishop. The problem is publically “holding them accountable”. That is a path that is loaded with danger specifically because the bishop is doing the job he has been appointed to by the Holy Spirit whereas we have not been ordained by the Holy Spirit to pass public judgement on the bishop.
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I am entitled to an opinion. That is all I have to offer. I’m not sitting here trying to pass judgement. If you think discussing the actions of a priest or bishop on a public forum equates to a public judgement of that priest/bishop than perhaps you should skip reading threads like this one. Opinions are just that…OPINIONS!
 
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Timidity:
Doesn’t the virtue of charity demand that we assume the Bishop’s action was correct?

Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury.278 He becomes guilty:
  • of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;
  • of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;
  • of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.
To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way
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Timidity:

I can assume the Archbishop had the authority to do what he did. Because of prior history, I will give him the benefit of the doubt, but I will not ASSUME that what he did is correct. I hope that you are not asking for more than that.

I believe it would be well within reason for posters here to WRITE the Archbishop, expressing any doubts they might have about the decision in as charitable fashion as possible, posting their emails here and the replies so that all can see.

Posting the emails will force those who email the Bishop to be careful in their language and content. Posting the replies will demonstrate the honesty or lack thereof of the Bishop in this case and put this to rest or allow someone to take the matter to the proper ecclesial authority (the Vatican).

While Cannon Law has good advice and tries to maintain order, I think that this board could provide all a service by getting at he truth of the matter. I don’t think I need to remind anyone here about the Molestation scandal and how so many Bishops covered it up, protecting the molesters rather than the sheep entrusted to their charge.

Charges should not be made lightly, or without evidence, but Cannon Law should not be cited to silence inquiry into what appear to be serous issues.

I remind those sending emails that the Bishop has a moral prusumption of innocence and that you are merely trying to ascertain the facts to the best of your abilities and then to transmit them so there will be no misunderstandings.

In Christ, Michael
 
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marke:
Anna Elizabeth:
you asked, “While I have the opportunity, I must again ask my never-answered question: If I find the bishop in an adjacent diocese to be more in sync with Rome, am I allowed to follow him? Or am I forced to either follow my own bishop or physically move to the other diocese?”

Follow an adjacent bishop ?? In what way ??

The short answer is NO – a bishop in a different diocese does not have authorty outside of his diocese. And the concept of picking and chosing bishops that “we” decide to follow is like shopping for a priest to hear our confession that will give us the answers that we are confortable with. And like a popular put down in this form it smacks of protestantism.

Br. Mark, OSB
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Br. Mark:

I think there’s a good question there - Suppose the bishop at the head of your Diocese is a HERETIC (He questions Christ’s Divinity or says that He never Rose from the Dead or teaches that Abortion on Demand is OK) Or that he reounces his allegience to the Bishop of Rome and claims allegience to a different spiritial head (Say, the King of England)… Are you obligated to obey him or to follow him? Are you obligated to teach what he teaches or to preach what he preaches?

Catholic doesn’t mean I blindly follow to Local Ordinary. Catholic means I hold the Faith of the Bishop of Rome and that I obey and submit to HIM!

I really think you got it wrong here - According to you, St. Thomas More should have followed the Archbishop of Canterbury and joined the Church of England in renouncing the Pope and signing the Act of Parliament.

He’s a Martyr and Statesman of the Church because he didn’t follow your advice and risked being a “Protestant” in the eyes of some here.

The question to be answered is, Is the Local Ordinary in conflict with the Bishop of Rome? Or, Are people imagining something?

That can only be ascertained by a search for the truth and by trying to interview everyone involved. Since this involves a Bishop of Souls, special care is called for.

Needless to say, it would not be for Laypersons to “hold any Bishop accountable”. that would be up to the Vatican upon presentment of what they felt was sufficient evidence to merit some disciplinery action.

In Christ, Michael
 
Because I don’t know the reason behind it, I cannot make a personal judgement.
 
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