Was Muhammad a Prophet of the Judeo-Christian God ?

[JimmyDFG]

I do not see it that way.

God gave Muhammad to the most barbaric part of the world of the time to bring them back to God. At the same time it gave guidance to Christianity that it was straying from the intent of Gods Word.

In no way is Islam against Christianity, that has been adequately shown in many other posts.

If Christianity had embraced Muhammad the Love of Christ would have not been Lost, it would have born the Fruits of its existance. The world would be a different place.

But it was not to be the Bible has already told us we stray from the parth.

The future is still ours, will we embrace God as a united Humanity, or will we be disunited to our own demise.

Regards Tony

The quran clearly states that Christians lie when claiming God is in the form of a Trinity. These are strong words; however this is exactly what the quran states. The quran claims that the Lord Jesus is only an prophet and for Christians to desist from teaching the blessed Trinity! In this same Sura, the Koran denies the Lord Jesus is the Son of God.

In one Sura the quran attacks the very heart of Christianity by denying the blessed Trinity and that the Lord Jesus is the only begotten Son of God! It calls Christians liars and demands that the preaching of the Trinity and Jesus being the Son of God stop. The quran identifies Christians sometimes as “followers of the book,” but when they proclaim Christian doctrine, the quran then calls them liars. Muhammad writes that it is acceptable to believe the Bible, but not Christian doctrine!

The Sura to show this follows:
Sura 4.171 O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

In the above sura if this was the same God, wouldn’t "allah " and muhammad know the doctrine of the Holy Trinity.
But Tony,You are in complete denial if you believe islam is not against Christianity

 

[TonyBS]

The difference is I accept Muhammad as the seal of the Prophets.

I read the Koran in unity with Christianity and when read this way it is 100% in tune.

Frame of Reference is required.

Each has to find this for themselves.

Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

In no way Islam is against Christianity? I think you ought read the Quran where we are called the worst of all creatures, guilty of shirk and the traditions of the prophecies of Muhammad telling the Muslims that they would conquer Rome.

Christianity couldn’t embrace Islam because from the begining Islam showed itself for what it is, a warrior religion. They conquered Christian lands, enslaved or killed those who did not convert, forcing Christians to pay the Jizya with willing submission and be humiliated.

But how does any of what you said just then deny my central premise that God abandoned Christendom? You are saying the world would have been better if we became Muslims, became theocratic Islamic states (which are just beacons of human hope and enlightenment today)? If that’s the case God did abandon Christianity and started a new family in Islam. That’s why Muslims were so set on conquering the Christian west. They started with the Christian East mind you.

Ask yourself if God abondonrd the Jews by Giving them Jesus and Christianity.

The same answers you get wirh that meditation can then be applied to your question about the Muslim Faith and Christianity. Then again for the Bahai Faith and the Muslim Faith.

Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

Yes, we can see the kind of place the world would be when we look at the Middle East where the majority of the population has “embraced Muhammad.” I suppose it is the fault of the minority Christians there who choose not to be raped, beheaded or sold as slaves that the “Fruits of its existance [sic]” are so destructive and disconcerting.

Speaking of “barbaric parts of the world,” I would think that God’s gift to Muhammad should have born more fruits of peace over the last 1300 years that Muhammad has controlled that part of the world. Perhaps, he has has enough opportunity to show his stuff, rather than being permitted to export it to formerly peaceful places such as Belgium. I don’t see how you can possibly write what you do without severe pangs of conscience.

I never look at the result of this material World as being attributed to any of Gods Chosen Messengers.

You should examine your comments as to where the worlds problems have stemmed from.

God bless and regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

The quran clearly states that Christians lie when claiming God is in the form of a Trinity. These are strong words; however this is exactly what the quran states. The quran claims that the Lord Jesus is only an prophet and for Christians to desist from teaching the blessed Trinity! In this same Sura, the Koran denies the Lord Jesus is the Son of God.

In one Sura the quran attacks the very heart of Christianity by denying the blessed Trinity and that the Lord Jesus is the only begotten Son of God! It calls Christians liars and demands that the preaching of the Trinity and Jesus being the Son of God stop. The quran identifies Christians sometimes as “followers of the book,” but when they proclaim Christian doctrine, the quran then calls them liars. Muhammad writes that it is acceptable to believe the Bible, but not Christian doctrine!

The Sura to show this follows:
Sura 4.171 O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

In the above sura if this was the same God, wouldn’t "allah " and muhammad know the doctrine of the Holy Trinity.
But Tony,You are in complete denial if you believe islam is not against Christianity

See my last three posts above, that are applicable to this comment.

Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Ask yourself if God abondonrd the Jews by Giving them Jesus and Christianity.

The same answers you get wirh that meditation can then be applied to your question about the Muslim Faith and Christianity. Then again for the Bahai Faith and the Muslim Faith.

Regards Tony

Your comparison doesn’t work since God first went to the Jewish people in Jesus. Muhammad was established away from the previous family (Christians) and was set up against the Christians pretty much from the beginning. Christ worked intimately with the Jewish People, restricting his ministry to them for his entire ministry. Even after his death the Gospel was first only spread amongst the Jews and later when God revealed to Peter that gentiles should be allowed in to the Church did Gentiles become the primary family of God. There is a clear connection especially in the earliest Church being all Jewish. Of course God has not abandoned the Jewish people entirely though they are formally separated from the family of God. I believe he has plans for them in the last days (though i reject that dispensation of some modern currents of Protestantism). In Christiantiy it is not two families being set up, it is the Old Family continuing in a new way that included the adopted Gentiles. Most of the old Family rejected the new head (Jesus) but some accepted the new head and his desire to include the spiritual children of Abraham.

The same cannot be said in the Bahai view of Christianity. What is God’s plan for us if not for us to simply fade away or exist perpetually and become as corrupted as Hinduism, Buddhism and Zoroastrianism before us? There is no discernible pathway or goal being worked forward to in the vision of the bahai faith. To me it looks like a collection of failed experiments of which you might be the latest failed experiment. If Muhammad had ministered to Christians, went among them and focused his ministry on them exclusively and his followers later converted the Pagan Arabs you might have a point. But the discontinuity in the establishing of a New people in a wholly other people who did not know the truth is a jarring difference between what we see in Christianity and what we see in Islam.

In that sense is Muhammad really a Prophet of the Christian God? From our perspective no, because Islam seeks the destruction of God’s people, their abandoning of the faith they have received and the like.

 

[JimmyDFG]

Ask yourself if God abondonrd the Jews by Giving them Jesus and Christianity.

The same answers you get wirh that meditation can then be applied to your question about the Muslim Faith and Christianity. Then again for the Bahai Faith and the Muslim Faith.

Regards Tony

Can the bahai come up with a better a argument than what Robert Stockman thought up?

Further more, many individual Jews accepted Jesus. The mere fact that some Jews rejection of Jesus was unjustified does not prove that the Christian rejection of Baha’u’llah is also unjustified

 

[jlhargus]

Lol

I think I should thankyou?

Is it that obvious?

Indeed, each new religious Dispensation closes the eyes of the adherents of the previous Dispensation.

Your eyes are alllllllllllll about Moses .

If that is true then shouldn’t everyone become Mormon, after all don’t they have the latest prophet and book? If not then how do you judge Mormons wrong and you right?

2092

 

[SyroMalankara]

Which is why we recognize Krishna and Buddha as Messengers of God too!

who do you not incorporate in the Bahai pantheon? Any popular character is absorbed and Bahai’ized to show inclusivity, however I find to to be false and superficial.

Until the relative recent past, religions very much arose restricted to relatively small geographic areas. In the ARABIAN regions, this sort of monotheism was indeed unheard of and very much a unique culture that developed solely due to Prophet Muhammad.

what about Judaism, Christianity, Samaranitanism, Manichaenism, Mandeanism, Arianism, Eutychanism, etc etc etc… there are multitudes before MO and a few thousand after

I don’t think there is any placebo effect that has resulted in a lifetime of spiritual dedication to one God and the fruits of the Spirit that comes with it.

Can you name me one?

spiritual dedication to what one believes is God and some fruits of this are quite common, even among polytheistic and atheistic faiths

.

 

[Pulvis]

No he was not.

 

[TonyBS]

If that is true then shouldn’t everyone become Mormon, after all don’t they have the latest prophet and book? If not then how do you judge Mormons wrong and you right?

2092

Yes God gives us choices and does little to restrict His greatest gift to us, free will.

Now all we have to do is learn how it works and use it wisely.

Regards Tony

 

[JimmyDFG]

The difference is I accept Muhammad as the seal of the Prophets.

I read the Koran in unity with Christianity and when read this way it is 100% in tune.

Frame of Reference is required.

Each has to find this for themselves.

Regards Tony

Ask yourself if God abondonrd the Jews by Giving them Jesus and Christianity.

The same answers you get wirh that meditation can then be applied to your question about the Muslim Faith and Christianity. Then again for the Bahai Faith and the Muslim Faith.

Regards Tony

I never look at the result of this material World as being attributed to any of Gods Chosen Messengers.

You should examine your comments as to where the worlds problems have stemmed from.

God bless and regards Tony

See my last three posts above, that are applicable to this comment.

Regards Tony

Tony, How does that answer …
The quran clearly states that Christians lie when claiming God is in the form of a Trinity. These are strong words; however this is exactly what the quran states. The quran claims that the Lord Jesus is only an prophet and for Christians to desist from teaching the blessed Trinity! In this same Sura, the Koran denies the Lord Jesus is the Son of God.

In one Sura the quran attacks the very heart of Christianity by denying the blessed Trinity and that the Lord Jesus is the only begotten Son of God! It calls Christians liars and demands that the preaching of the Trinity and Jesus being the Son of God stop. The quran identifies Christians sometimes as “followers of the book,” but when they proclaim Christian doctrine, the quran then calls them liars. Muhammad writes that it is acceptable to believe the Bible, but not Christian doctrine!

The Sura to show this follows:
Sura 4.171 O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

In the above sura if this was the same God, wouldn’t "allah " and muhammad know the doctrine of the Holy Trinity.
But Tony,You are in complete denial if you believe islam is not against Christianity

 

[JimmyDFG]

Yes God gives us choices and does little to restrict His greatest gift to us, free will.

Now all we have to do is learn how it works and use it wisely.

Regards Tony

Than why do the bahai tell other religions they are in error?

 

[jlhargus]

You posted: each new religious Dispensation closes the eyes of the adherents of the previous Dispensation.

I posted: If that is true then shouldn’t everyone become Mormon, after all don’t they have the latest prophet and book? If not then how do you judge Mormons wrong and you right?

You posted:

Yes God gives us choices and does little to restrict His greatest gift to us, free will.

Now all we have to do is learn how it works and use it wisely. Regards Tony

You danced around my question. Why? Have you no answers, should all be Mormon if not how do you know? Free will isn’t an answer its a diversion Tony.

 

[Servant19]

You posted: each new religious Dispensation closes the eyes of the adherents of the previous Dispensation.

I posted: If that is true then shouldn’t everyone become Mormon, after all don’t they have the latest prophet and book? If not then how do you judge Mormons wrong and you right?

You posted:

You danced around my question. Why? Have you no answers, should all be Mormon if not how do you know? Free will isn’t an answer its a diversion Tony.

The Mormon Church began in 1830
The Baha’i religion began in 1844

Secondly, Joseph Smith is not the point of worship for Mormons, Jesus is. In that sense he was not a major Prophet like Jesus, Moses, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah but rather more akin to a minor Prophet.

Minor prophets are like the moon, reflecting the light radiating from major Prophets who are likened to the Sun.

When a major Prophet arises on earth, a new heaven and a new earth is created. Baha’u’llah is the creator of today’s heaven and earth in which we live in…

.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

The Mormon Church began in 1830
The Baha’i religion began in 1844

Secondly, Joseph Smith is not the point of worship for Mormons, Jesus is. In that sense he was not a major Prophet like Jesus, Moses, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah but rather more akin to a minor Prophet.

.

But God the Father appeared to him in a body of Flesh and bone and told him about all the corruption in the church and how the creeds of Christendom were abominations. He restored the Melchizedek priesthood amongst many other things. Seems like a pretty major Prophet to me.

 

[JimmyDFG]

You posted: each new religious Dispensation closes the eyes of the adherents of the previous Dispensation.

I posted: If that is true then shouldn’t everyone become Mormon, after all don’t they have the latest prophet and book? If not then how do you judge Mormons wrong and you right?

You posted:

You danced around my question. Why? Have you no answers, should all be Mormon if not how do you know? Free will isn’t an answer its a diversion Tony.

Happens on a daily basis. They’re notorious for it

 

[Servant19]

But God the Father appeared to him in a body of Flesh and bone and told him about all the corruption in the church and how the creeds of Christendom were abominations. He restored the Melchizedek priesthood amongst many other things. Seems like a pretty major Prophet to me.

Point of worship is still Jesus.

.

 

[JimmyDFG]

When a major Prophet arises on earth, a new heaven and a new earth is created. Baha’u’llah is the creator of today’s heaven and earth in which we live in…

How many heavens and earths is there with the different “major prophets”?

 

[Servant19]

How many heavens and earths is there with the different “major prophets”?

Every time a major Prophet arises a new civilisation is born and a new heaven accompanies it.

The new Adam in each new heaven and earth is the Manifestation of God. Jesus was the new Adam when He blessed the earth 2000 years ago. He brought with Him a new heaven and a new earth. He did the exact same thing when He returned as a new Adam with a new name, Baha’u’llah

.