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StAnastasia
Guest
A beautiful part of the country – I’ve backpacked out of Mammoth Lakes several times.
StAnastasia
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StAnastasia
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William_inquire
Guest
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You missed it “Kinds” are NOT SPECIES “Kinds” is one pair of dogs for ALL dogs, or one pair of cats for ALL cats, one type of monkey for ALL monkeys. One pair of moths for all lepidopterans.(or butterflies if you prefer) of which there are 180 species including butterflies and skippers. One representative of a gene pool for all in that particular group.
Two: yes Elephants eat a lot, baby elephants eat less but still a lot. Two elephants for mastodons, mammoths, africans and indian and any other in that "kind’
three: seeds , eggs, spores , and some other things survive water
four: You need to consider the fall and how it affects things. Disease is an effect of the fall. Germs mutate from benign forms to malignant forms or from sickness to really nasty forms such as MRSA. MRSA is “new” Many diseases do not cross species barriers, but do so later on. Finally don’t forget that God allows judgement to happen
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Wirraway
Guest
ask the guy with the super-sized shovel.
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StAnastasia
Guest
Not to put too fine a point on it, but this is intellectual rubbish, not science. There is no such thing as a “kind” except in the minds of people who know nothing about biology. You’ve been duped by ICR, AiG, and other simple creationist groups.
The sad thing is, none of your tortured logic is necessary – ask any one of the numerous Catholic priests who are evolutionary biologists and also faithful Catholics. I could put you in touch with them in almost every region of the United States.
Still, if you would like to further public discussion of your theory, propose a paper on Noah’s “kinds” at the 2009 meetings of the AAAS or the American Institute of Biological Sciences.
Good luck,
StAnastasia
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redneck22
Guest
To answer the common question of “who carried HIV, HPV, Black Death, Lice, syphilis, Ebola etc on the Ark”, it has been expressed a number of times on these forums that these are the result of sin and the degradation of the original Creation as stated in Genesis. These current pathogens are ancestral to the same organisms that had more complex and richer genomes in the original Creation and were not created to be pathogenic. The article below shows that the more the genome is reduced the more “specialized” the pathogen becomes. This is because it has lost its ability to live freely in an open environment and relies on the “host”.
From The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America
"The louse-borne human pathogen Bartonella quintana is a genomic derivative of the zoonotic agent Bartonella henselae
ABSTRACT
We present the complete genomes of two human pathogens, Bartonella quintana (1,581,384 bp) and Bartonella henselae (1,931,047 bp). The two pathogens maintain several similarities in being transmitted by insect vectors, using mammalian reservoirs, infecting similar cell types (endothelial cells and erythrocytes) and causing vasculoproliferative changes in immunocompromised hosts. A primary difference between the two pathogens is their reservoir ecology. Whereas B. quintana is a specialist, using only the human as a reservoir, B. henselae is more promiscuous and is frequently isolated from both cats and humans.
Genome comparison elucidated a high degree of overall similarity with major differences being B. henselae specific genomic islands coding for filamentous hemagglutinin, and evidence of extensive genome reduction in B. quintana, reminiscent of that found in Rickettsia prowazekii. **Both genomes are reduced versions of chromosome I **from the highly related pathogen Brucella melitensis. Flanked by two rRNA operons is a segment with similarity to genes located on chromosome II of B. melitensis, suggesting that it was acquired by integration of megareplicon DNA in a common ancestor of the two Bartonella species.
Comparisons of the vector-host ecology of these organisms suggest that the utilization of host-restricted vectors is associated with **accelerated rates of genome degradation **and may explain why human pathogens transmitted by specialist vectors are outnumbered by zoonotic agents, which use vectors of broad host ranges."
Read the full article here
This fully supports the Genesis account.
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Wirraway
Guest
no, it doesn’t support genesis, unless genesis can mean whatever you want it to mean, which is typical creationist tactic. there’s nothing in the article that mentions the bible, or genesis, or ye arke. why don’t you do your own research instead of hijacking someone else’s?
thank you for illustrating the Texas Sharphooter Fallacy. I was waiting patiently for this kind of post.
there’s nothing moral or immoral about a plague bacillus, any more than a lion is moral or not. plague, burrowing rodent communities and fleas have evolved a fairly stable relationship; plague’s virulence in humans is of secondary importance to the cycle, and epidemics occur after a host of precursors (including climate), none of which are necessarily holy. its just some quirk in the genetics of plague, rodents and fleas that humans are collected in the wreckage of a pandemic.
there’s nothing immoral about smallpox either, which is about 12,000 years old, so it predates ye arke, and evolved from a very similar disease that affects cattle, not surprising, since significant human contact with cattle began about that time. smallpox is another disease that can’t survive without a human vector, so its been around from the the time it crossed over from being a cattle disease and infected humans whose population densities supported a continuous chain of infection until it was eradicated in the 1970s. smallpox was around in noah’s time so who on ye arke was the carrier?
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Wirraway
Guest
that sounds like a survivor’s tale.A beautiful part of the country – I’ve backpacked out of Mammoth Lakes several times.
StAnastasia
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StAnastasia
Guest
No, I don’t mean I escaped from there! I mean, from Mammoth Lakes I’ve backpacked into the beautiful Ansel Adams Wilderness. Admittedly, my husband and I did survive:thumbsup: …
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Wirraway
Guest
MEMORANDUM
TO: Staff
FROM: Noah
DATE: 4 Antediluvian
Re: Types Consolidation
Shem
Chief,
Deck Division
TO: Staff
FROM: Noah
DATE: 4 Antediluvian
Re: Types Consolidation
- Recommendations of the Types Consolidation Committee approved this date.
- Elephants and Mammoths Type, Moo Cows Group, Rhinos and Unicorns Unit and the Triceratops Division are ordered consolidated into “Big Animals With Horns Type”.
- The Procurement Team is ordered to obtain One Pair, Big Animals With Horns.
Shem
Chief,
Deck Division
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William_inquire
Guest
:bluelite:
LineCarl Linnaeus (Latinized as Carolus Linnaeus, also known after his ennoblement as Carl von Linné (help·info), May 23 new style (13 May old style), 1707[1] – January 10, 1778) was a Swedish botanist, physician and zoologist[2] who laid the foundations for the modern scheme of Binomial nomenclature. He is known as the father of modern taxonomy, and is also considered one of the fathers of modern ecology (see History of ecology).
[BCarl Linnaeus (Latinized as Carolus Linnaeus, also known after his ennoblement as Carl von Linné (help·info), May 23 new style (13 May old style), 1707[1] – January 10, 1778) was a Swedish botanist, physician and zoologist[2] who laid the foundations for the modern scheme of Binomial nomenclature. He is known as the father of modern taxonomy, and is also considered one of the fathers of modern ecology (see History of ecology).
While the underlying details concerning what are considered to be scientifically valid ‘observable characteristics’ has changed with expanding knowledge (for example, DNA sequencing, unavailable in Linnaeus’ time, has proven to be a tool of considerable utility for classifying living organisms and establishing their relationships to each other), the fundamental principle remains sound.
LInnaeus and his system preceeded arguments about the questionability of Noah’s Ark .
He also preceded Darwin and the idea the a mutation could ever be helpful for all species (not just small organisms and not just organisms that have extremely large memberships. ) It isn’t and that isn’t the way it works.
darwin’s finches on the other hand is an example of one species being a gene pool for many. This is not an example of General Evolution but Special Evolution ( or speciation) General Evolution is a generalization drawn from the Special theory. (there always has been two theories of evolution. If in doubt pick up a copy for yourself.) Although I believe in God creating the world and not some random accident. I find the general theory to not be problematic. (although why one needs to call it “evolution” …) The information is there in the genes. Likewise variations in color and size also occur.
We know that humans came from one pair. If there were an outside observer however that observer might say “oh this one is larger and has different skin color and a bigger jaw, must be a different species.” Yet we know this to be preposterous.
Likewise we also know that there are vast numbers of species of dogs . They have been bred from other dogs by humans and we get a multitude of color shapes and sizes. Variations as different as a white teacup poodle and a great dane are probably greater than between those of a couple of finches, let alone the difference between a duck and a goose . In the later example both could be white , but similarities abound. Or consider a sparrow and an eagle, both of these have feathers. However the poodle has hair, not fur like the great dane.
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StAnastasia
Guest
This “big animal with horns” is going to have to do a lot of post-diluvial evolving and migration in order to get to its varied habitats on four continents in the few centuries before Abraham is born. Same with the one pair for the snake “kind” – loads of evolution ahead of it.
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StAnastasia
Guest
A bogus distinction.
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Wirraway
Guest
you lose credibility here, by demonstrating that you don’t understand the topic you’re posting on.
since you’re referring to domestic dogs, you should know that there’s only one species of dog, a sub-species of gray wolf. although maybe it doesn’t matter, since creationists speak of “types”, and the technical defiitions of species or genus, family etc. don’t matter because the term “type” is defined as however you need it defined.
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StAnastasia
Guest
redneck22, this is dishonest, immoral, and shameful piracy of a legitimate article from a scientific journal, employed to prop up a silly world view. The article nowhere mentions Genesis, or Adam’s fall, or degradation from the original creation. By trying to shoehorn this PNAS article into a simple “creationist” biblical literalism, you demonstrate an innocence of the principles of genetics equal only to your profound lack of understanding of biblical theology.
StAnastasia
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Jerry-Jet
Guest
I thought this thread was about the Ark of the Covenent–what percentage of evolution supporters wouldn’t believe in it either?
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StAnastasia
Guest
Interesting question, Jerry-Jet. I can’t think of any reason at all an evolutionary biologist wouldn’t believe in the Ark of the Covenant!
StAnastasia
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Wirraway
Guest
maybe if you’d read the thread first.
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StAnastasia
Guest
Wirraway, you have to get your priorities squared away – here’s Noah’s Ark: noahsarkwaterpark.com/
StAnastasia
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Wirraway
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MEMORANDUM
TO: Staff
FROM: Noah
DATE: 5 Antediluvian
Re: Further Types Consolidation
Shem
Chief,
Deck Division
TO: Staff
FROM: Noah
DATE: 5 Antediluvian
Re: Further Types Consolidation
- Additional recommendations of the Types Consolidation Committee approved this date.
- Type “Animals With Extensions Attached To Their Bodies” now replaces Type Big Animals With Horns, Type Animals With Legs, Type Lives In The Water, Type Stuff That Flies and the Barky Dogs Unit.
- The Procurement Team is ordered to obtain One Pair, Animals With Extensions Attached To Their Bodies.
Shem
Chief,
Deck Division
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StAnastasia
Guest
Excuse me, officer Shem. I hate to be a pest, but I’m unlcear on your order. Do I collect paramecia and bacteria with flagella in this same unit? They too are “animals with appendages attached to their bodies.”
Where should I store the paramecia and amoebae?
S. Anastasia
Microbial Procurement Unit
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