D
Damascus
Guest
Yeah but that option kinda blows if you dont mind me saying so.another option is to just stop having sex…(no risk of an unwanted /unplanned pregnancy then)
- Status
K
Karin
Guest
so does your option
(vasectomy)…sorry to sayand may I ask as a Catholic how could you even suggest that option?
D
Damascus
Guest
Why if you dont mind me asking? in and out same day service.so does your option
Lots of people get them and I have not heard of any bad side effects.
This guy is not a Catholic, that is how I can suggest it.
B
BrownR
Guest
archfami.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/8/5/391#REF-FOC6083-34
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=9653695&dopt=Abstract
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8057183&dopt=Abstract
I took the liberty to look up some medical journal articles on the Creighton method because I was absolutely certain that your numbers were wrong due to statistical errors in data analysis such as selection or measurement biases (and they still might be…), but it appears that this is a significantly more effective method than usual NFP (which usually averages around 80-85% effectiveness and which is what I have been taught.) I’ll admit, I’m rather intrigued by this method. I’ll have to research it some more.
Regardless, we still have to consider that the OP’s wife may have deviation or variability in her ovulatory cycles. (To the OP: Does she?) In which case, she’s never going to reach these types of numbers. Also, for the most part, those numbers aren’t reached until at least a year into the training, meaning that someone runs a greater risk at the onset of initial learning.
Anyway, fascinating. I’m still amazed by those numbers.
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Karin
Guest
your point…the same is said for getting your tubes tied…in and out same day etc.does not mean it is right or moral
also some long term side effects could be…
Ligation of vas deferens causes sperm to be forced into scrotum resulting in rise of sperm antibodies which persist in 25% of men. The implications are still in the process of study. Increased risk of prostate cancer described in 2 studies: also increase in lung cancer if surgery was over 20 years ago. SOURCE
Risks or side effects associated with vasectomy:
Although complications such as swelling, bruising, inflammation, and infection may occur after the surgery, they are not common and usually not serious. Men who develop these symptoms, as defined by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development (NICHD), at any time should contact their physicians:
- *epididymitis/orchitis
A major study - the Health Status of American Men, or HSAM - sponsored by NICHD reported that only one condition, epididymitis/orchitis (painful, swollen, and tender epididymis or testis), was found to be more common after vasectomy. This local inflammation most often occurs during the first year after surgery. - *immune system reactions
After vasectomy, the testes continue to make sperm. When the sperm cells die, they are absorbed by the body, just as they are in a man who has not had a vasectomy. Sometimes, however, men, following a vasectomy, develop immune reactions to sperm. *Sperm usually do not come in contact with immune cells, so they do not elicit an immune response. But, vasectomy breaches the barriers that separate immune cells from sperm, and men can develop anti-sperm antibodies after the surgery. Some physicians and researchers are concerned that these immune reactions against parts of one’s own body could cause disease. Rheumatoid arthritis, juvenile diabetes, and multiple sclerosis are some of the illnesses suspected or known to be caused by immune reactions of this type. - *prostate cancer risk
Some studies have raised questions about a possible relationship between having a vasectomy and the risk of developing prostate cancer - the most common cancer in American men and the second leading cause of cancer death, after lung cancer. Other studies have shown no increase in prostate cancer among men who have had a vasectomy. * - SOURCE
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Karin
Guest
…glad to hear …keep reading/researching it gets even better!Also if the OP’s wife does have deviation or variabilty in her cycles…Creighton is the method to go with…highly effective with this also.
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Damascus
Guest
Okay Karin you smarty pants.
So it does not sound like a user friendly option and has potential to be rather unpleasant.
But come on, I am only going by Mother Theresa here in trying to help the non catholic be a better non catholic like you posted somewhere else.
It inspired me, what can I say??
Thats why I dont care for that particular quote of hers. It leads to no good
So it does not sound like a user friendly option and has potential to be rather unpleasant.
But come on, I am only going by Mother Theresa here in trying to help the non catholic be a better non catholic like you posted somewhere else.
It inspired me, what can I say??
Thats why I dont care for that particular quote of hers. It leads to no good
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BrownR
Guest
20% of men over 35 have had a vasectomy. It’s generally a very safe and effective procedure. Those risks and side effects is like me listing kidney toxicity for over the counter vitamins. Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? Not in a long shot.
does not mean it is right or moral
also some long term side effects could be…
Ligation of vas deferens causes sperm to be forced into scrotum resulting in rise of sperm antibodies which persist in 25% of men. The implications are still in the process of study. Increased risk of prostate cancer described in 2 studies: also increase in lung cancer if surgery was over 20 years ago. SOURCE
Risks or side effects associated with vasectomy:
Although complications such as swelling, bruising, inflammation, and infection may occur after the surgery, they are not common and usually not serious. Men who develop these symptoms, as defined by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development (NICHD), at any time should contact their physicians:
- epididymitis/orchitis
A major study - the Health Status of American Men, or HSAM - sponsored by NICHD reported that only one condition, epididymitis/orchitis (painful, swollen, and tender epididymis or testis), was found to be more common after vasectomy. This local inflammation most often occurs during the first year after surgery.- immune system reactions
After vasectomy, the testes continue to make sperm. When the sperm cells die, they are absorbed by the body, just as they are in a man who has not had a vasectomy. Sometimes, however, men, following a vasectomy, develop immune reactions to sperm. Sperm usually do not come in contact with immune cells, so they do not elicit an immune response. But, vasectomy breaches the barriers that separate immune cells from sperm, and men can develop anti-sperm antibodies after the surgery. Some physicians and researchers are concerned that these immune reactions against parts of one’s own body could cause disease. Rheumatoid arthritis, juvenile diabetes, and multiple sclerosis are some of the illnesses suspected or known to be caused by immune reactions of this type.- prostate cancer risk
Some studies have raised questions about a possible relationship between having a vasectomy and the risk of developing prostate cancer - the most common cancer in American men and the second leading cause of cancer death, after lung cancer. Other studies have shown no increase in prostate cancer among men who have had a vasectomy.- SOURCE
Interestingly enough, if you research vasectomy in JAMA or NEJM, you’ll notice that only 2 or so of those studies in the 90s showed a weak link to prostate cancer. 7 other studies showed no link at all. In fact, one study showed that men with a vasectomy lived longer lives. It just goes to show, don’t always believe any statistic that you are given. Analyze the study method. There’s lies, damn lies, and then statistics.
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Karin
Guest
just a tad…
Ahh…is that what you where doing?
Silly me …get back to it…but I would like the OP to have ALL the info before he makes a choice!as to the Mother Theresa quote…someone else started it…I just posted the whole thing…I like things in context
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Karin
Guest
Any risk no matter what the chance should be known
Anything less is a diservice to the patient, IMHO
D
Damascus
Guest
But he is not a patient yet Karin! I am positive he will get that info at the hospital prior to the snipping?Any risk no matter what the chance should be known
Anything less is a diservice to the patient, IMHO
Ouch. Sorry OP but it does sorta sound a bit like its not recreational.
What would I know. I am a Catholic. We dont do that stuff.
Sorry to confuse the issue here OP. I was just trying to help.
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BrownR
Guest
Which is exactly my point. There is no definitive link between prostate cancer and vasectomy. Period.Any risk no matter what the chance should be known
Anything less is a diservice to the patient, IMHO
There’s a point where paranoia just gets absurd. We all run a risk of developing certain auto-immune diseases and kidney disease anytime we get a case of strep throat. Should we all lock ourselves in a bubble and avoid playgrounds (or Church for that matter?)
Of course not, because the probability is so extremely small.
D
Damascus
Guest
Sorry but I have to laugh because you are right about paranoia that can be absurd but trust me Karin fights it when she sees it.Which is exactly my point. There is no definitive link between prostate cancer and vasectomy. Period.
There’s a point where paranoia just gets absurd. We all run a risk of developing certain auto-immune diseases and kidney disease anytime we get a case of strep throat. Should we all lock ourselves in a bubble and avoid playgrounds (or Church for that matter?
I can PM you threads to PROVE IT.
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Karin
Guest
thanks “D”…wait is that a good thing or bad???
D
Damascus
Guest
Its a d*&^ good thing baby!
Its beautiful in Italian…
K
Karin
Guest
Its a d*&^ good thing baby!
Its beautiful in Italian…
S
starling
Guest
You should really be getting your advice about this, as a couple, from a local Priest. The Vatican’s pronouncements are one thing, but they don’t have to live in the trenches with the people who are impacted by their decisions. Moreover, they can’t possibly cover every single situation that people might encounter in the course of their lives.
Now, let me be very clear, I would not suggest to anyone that they just go ahead and sin, but there is room for well-formed conscience. In a way, that this is a problem for you seems ludicrous when you stop to consider that probably more than 90% of Catholics ignore this teaching anyway. It’s not the Vatican which has to deal with the medical issues or support the children. Besides, you’re not even a Catholic. In my opinion, there’s something wrong in the interpretation or the application of rules somewhere when it causes this level of discord. I wouldn’t let any church ruin a marriage, and I doubt that God would want this.
But lay people can’t tell you what to do. Get your advice from a Priest.
Now, let me be very clear, I would not suggest to anyone that they just go ahead and sin, but there is room for well-formed conscience. In a way, that this is a problem for you seems ludicrous when you stop to consider that probably more than 90% of Catholics ignore this teaching anyway. It’s not the Vatican which has to deal with the medical issues or support the children. Besides, you’re not even a Catholic. In my opinion, there’s something wrong in the interpretation or the application of rules somewhere when it causes this level of discord. I wouldn’t let any church ruin a marriage, and I doubt that God would want this.
But lay people can’t tell you what to do. Get your advice from a Priest.
D
Damascus
Guest
That would eliminate 90 percent of the forum!!!
Are you trying to underhandedly deprive us of this?
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starling
Guest
LOL, I don’t think those 90% even know this forum exists, and if they did, they wouldn’t be here very long. You have to admit, this forum represents a especially rigorist segment of Catholicism.
D
Damascus
Guest
I admit it. Its time to fess up.
Now, Op are you going to share with us how you are thinking about our posts?
I’m wondering if you are still around? Please come back and talk to us.
You seem nice.
- Status