We are rational because of our brains, not our souls

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Lucretius said:
Matter per se refers to the essence of matter, while matter per accidens refers something about matter that is not essential. For example, the common cold can be caused by infected air, but that is only a per accidens cause; the per se cause is a rhinovirus.
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Thank you.
Lucretius said:
I basically agree.
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Cool.
Lucretius said:
I guess (?) that’s correct? I would prefer the statement be that universals are abstractions from concrete reality, and of course correspond to that reality.
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I agree.
Lucretius said:
I think you confusing syntax with semantics, the sound is a symbol of an idea. The sound doesn’t inherently possess the idea.
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I am not confusing syntax and semantic. Of course the sound possess the idea in a coded way. That enables us to understand the idea.
Lucretius said:
Like I said before, concepts can’t be physical, because physical things are essentially particular, and concepts are inherently universal.

Christi pax,

Lucretius
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I think you agree that concept are simply a state of mind in previous comment so I don’t understand you.
 
Bahman said:
Geddie: “Fetuses are alive despite not yet having a usable mind.”

I don’t consider fetuses as being alive

Geddie: “Human beings also remain alive while asleep or unconscious.”

No, because human unconscious mind is active while asleep.
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Fetuses are not alive? Those that are asleep are not alive?

Collins Dictionary:
life (noun)
  1. the state or quality that distinguishes living beings or organisms from dead ones and from inorganic matter, characterized chiefly by metabolism, growth, and the ability to reproduce and respond to stimuli
 
Bahman said:
I have no idea about fetus whether it is alive or not.

Those who are asleep of course are alive. They are just in state of unconscious.
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Per the dictionary definition, fetuses are alive:

life (noun)
  1. the state or quality that distinguishes living beings or organisms from dead ones and from inorganic matter, characterized chiefly by metabolism, growth, and the ability to reproduce and respond to stimuli
 
Vico said:
Per the dictionary definition, fetuses are alive:

life (noun)
  1. the state or quality that distinguishes living beings or organisms from dead ones and from inorganic matter, characterized chiefly by metabolism, growth, and the ability to reproduce and respond to stimuli
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According to that dictionary fetus is not alive because they cannot reproduce and respond to stimuli.
 
Bahman said:
According to that dictionary fetus is not alive because they cannot reproduce and respond to stimuli.
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Fetuses do respond to stimuli, and they are developing the potential for reproduction.

If they are not alive, what are they? Dead?
 
seagal said:
Fetuses do respond to stimuli, and they are developing the potential for reproduction.
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Fetus responds to stimuli when they are developed enough.
seagal said:
If they are not alive, what are they? Dead?
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The story starts from one egg and one sperm. That is not something we can call human. I have no idea when they become conscious so they can respond to stimuli.
 
I thought your discussion was asking whether a fetus was alive… I was showing that it is alive. Your question now is distracting because a plant is not a human being. The discussion is about human life… or so I thought.
 
Bahman said:
Can you call plants as alive knowing that they don’t respond to any stimuli?
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Of course plants are alive, they grow and reproduce. And of course they aren’t human. They don’t come from human reproduction process. On the other hand human fetuses do. As to when they form consciousness, that’s a different discussion.

And actually plants do respond to stimuli. My house plants all turn towards the sunny window even if I turn them around. Sunflowers follow the sun. Insect eating plants respond when an unwary fly lands on it. Some people swear their plants grow better if they talk to them. There are probably other stimuli I’m not aware of but you could ask a botanist.
 
Bahman said:
Can you call plants as alive knowing that they don’t respond to any stimuli?
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You’ve never seen sunflowers turn toward the direction of the sun and follow it all day long?

You’ve never seen flowers open in the morning and close at night?

You’ve never seen plants grow based on the presence of rain or sun or nutrients?

All of these are examples of ‘stimuli’ to which plants respond. 😉
 
sudy said:
I thought your discussion was asking whether a fetus was alive… I was showing that it is alive. Your question now is distracting because a plant is not a human being. The discussion is about human life… or so I thought.
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I just mentioned that growth is not a good indication that we call something as alive.
 
seagal said:
Of course plants are alive, they grow and reproduce. And of course they aren’t human. They don’t come from human reproduction process. On the other hand human fetuses do. As to when they form consciousness, that’s a different discussion.

And actually plants do respond to stimuli. My house plants all turn towards the sunny window even if I turn them around. Sunflowers follow the sun. Insect eating plants respond when an unwary fly lands on it. Some people swear their plants grow better if they talk to them. There are probably other stimuli I’m not aware of but you could ask a botanist.
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Plants are not conscious and they have no nerves system. So I think it is matter of how we define a stimuli and response.
 
Gorgias said:
You’ve never seen sunflowers turn toward the direction of the sun and follow it all day long?

You’ve never seen flowers open in the morning and close at night?

You’ve never seen plants grow based on the presence of rain or sun or nutrients?

All of these are examples of ‘stimuli’ to which plants respond. 😉
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Plants are not conscious and they have no nerves system. So I think it is matter of how we define a stimuli and response.
 
Bahman said:
Plants are not conscious and they have no nerves system. So I think it is matter of how we define a stimuli and response.
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Consciousness does not define what is alive vs. what is not
Oxford Dictionary:
Life,
NOUN
1.the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death:
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Bahman said:
Plants are not conscious and they have no nerves system. So I think it is matter of how we define a stimuli and response.
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So, I presume that you meant to say “stimulus and conscious response”?
 
Bahman said:
According to that dictionary fetus is not alive because they cannot reproduce and respond to stimuli.
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It is not necessary for the reproductive system to be functional for an organism to be alive, and you know this, because you know that there are living eunuchs. Humans possess the reproductive systems (which is sufficient) and this is in the DNA. Fetuses do respond to stimuli.
 
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