"We can't take this anymore", Holy Redeemer Parishoners want Rome to clean up the Church

[bear06]

Do you have a link for this other information about the reaction of other priests, and about other abuses in San Francisco? Do the SPI go to that church regularly?

Yes, they do so in this article. sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/10/17/MNS1SR1HF.DTL The Bishop says he shouldn’t have done it and Fr. Bretzke goes on to say he couldn’t have denied them. Of course, Bretzke got the canon wrong.

The SPI have been allowed for years now to use the basement of the church for their very depraved fundraising events.

 

[Michael_C]

The apology sounded like a poor excuse. If there was no video I wonder if there even would have been an apology. If the Bishop was really serious he would put forth a solution. He could call on the Knights of Columbus to prevent cross dressing tranvestites from even entering the church to begin with.

 

[geraldffff]

Yes, they do so in this article. sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/10/17/MNS1SR1HF.DTL The Bishop says he shouldn’t have done it and Fr. Bretzke goes on to say he couldn’t have denied them. Of course, Bretzke got the canon wrong.

The SPI have been allowed for years now to use the basement of the church for their very depraved fundraising events.

thanks bear06, read the article and attempted to read the comments"vomit". Could a real priest be that ignotant or was he just being obtuse? “vomit” It is certainly enough to make a reasonable person vomit. Correct me if I am wrong. these so-called sisters are not part of any legitimate Catholic group. You call them SPI and correctly so. Quite a few posters in this thread continue to call these men in female garb “sisters” which in some was make them seem legitimate. Calling homosexuals gays or lesbo is also an attempt to make them legitimate or more publicly friendly is it not? I live in the sticks in minnesota, homosexual would not dare spew there garbage in public as they would not have a friendly welcome. I have pity for you and one of my children who lives in the homosexual infested area of Minneapolis minnesota. Thanks again for your most useful local incites.

 

[adam_in_ohio]

Immediately it should have been announced to all pastors that they are not to give Communion to the SPI until they have publicly repented so there is no scandal or sacrilege. .

If I cause a scandle, Why should I have to have repent publicly? As Catholics, oue confessions are kept privet! We should give that same respect to those that choose to repent too.

 

[adam_in_ohio]

Never to long to be angry over abuse of our Lord Jesus Christ. So even eternity plus a day is not long enough.

God has charged us to forgive others. “as we forgive those that tresspass aganst us”. God doesn’t say forgive those that say I’m sorry.

 

[adam_in_ohio]

Is it okay to still be upset over the crucifiction of Christ? Because that is what is happening in incidents like this. Maybe of people were more indignant all the time they’d be more aware of these abuses and prevent them.

People love to apologize after the fact, but the Bishop isn’t an idiot.

He is either sympathetic to the drag sisters cause, or has issues himself. Either way, an apology isn’t always enough for our leaders.

We must follow in Christ footsteps. Jesus prayed for mercy for those that were killing him. Forgive them Father they don’t know what they do.
We are ALL sinners, just because we understand the gravity of these sins of others, does not mean mercy and forgivness should not be given to them.

 

[retrovert]

Just another question for the heck of it. WWJD ??
Any ideas ?

 

[Mimi]

Hi,

I’m jumping in here kinda late; have been following the story somewhat after I 1st saw it on Fox News channel. I was aghast.

In answer to Post #259 :
(snip from article at Spero News)
…The letter goes on “…the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence do not ‘mock nuns’ but live ‘as nuns,’ taking vows that affirm the traditional compassionate and justice-seeking ministries of religious women, extending their reach beyond the convent walls to those most in need.”

This one is just plain hard to read without laughing. Where do you start? Men can’t be nuns. Nuns aren’t homosexual men who dress with white faces, feather boas and bizarre looking nun costumes. Are we to believe that the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence are living chaste lives full of heroic virtue? I’m afraid that wearing the color black and veils might be the only possible way to draw a parallel.
(snip)

I believe these are tactics of the Deceiver; confuse & obfuscate.
The SPI make a mockery of those who live out their sacred vocation. If I can believe what I read, they are not eligible to receive Our Lord in Holy Communion. And, yes, we can judge by their dress. Lord have mercy on us all!

Mimi

 

[bear06]

If I cause a scandle, Why should I have to have repent publicly? As Catholics, oue confessions are kept privet! We should give that same respect to those that choose to repent too.

In the case of public, obstinate sinners they must publicly repent so that no further scandal is caused. It is scandalous to give Communion to a public, obstinate sinner and unless there is a public repentance then it continues to cause scandal with the laity who do not know they have repented. It looks as if they still embrace the sin and are being given Communion in spite of it. This is not same for your regular run of the mill sinner like most of us. If I sin, it is usually personal and if I go to confession and repent, no one is the wiser. If I ran around saying abortion is great to everyone I met and then repented but didn’t tell everyone else that I was wrong and contrite and now in a state of grace then everyone would have to assume that I still believed that way and it would be scandalous for me to receive or be given Communion. Does that make sense?

Now, in the case of the SPI they are not claiming to have ditched their beliefs. The continues to embrace them. I don’t think this is even in question. Their “go forth and sin some more” is still in effect.

 

[bear06]

God has charged us to forgive others. “as we forgive those that tresspass aganst us”. God doesn’t say forgive those that say I’m sorry.

He also does not say to give Communion to public, obstinate sinners which is really what this is all about. Again, please study up on canon 915. Archbishop Burke does a wonderful job explaining it.

 

[bear06]

Just another question for the heck of it. WWJD ??
Any ideas ?

I believe he was the one who said “shake the dust”.

 

[bear06]

We must follow in Christ footsteps. Jesus prayed for mercy for those that were killing him. Forgive them Father they don’t know what they do.
We are ALL sinners, just because we understand the gravity of these sins of others, does not mean mercy and forgivness should not be given to them.

This is not about us forgiving the SPI. It is about protecting the teachings of the Church and especially protecting Our Lord’s Body and Blood. People do realize that committing a sacrilege against the Holy Eucharist is an automatic excommunication? I think one can only have this excommunication lifted by the Holy Father. This is how bad this act was.

 

[adam_in_ohio]

I am not saying what they have done is fine in any means. I’m just questioning ours.
As to the public repenting, I’m not so shure your right that they have to publicly repent. Show me proof in the modern erra and I will agree with you. (And learned something new ) I know a long long long time ago public confessions was the norm.

 

[bear06]

I am not saying what they have done is fine in any means. I’m just questioning ours.
As to the public repenting, I’m not so shure your right that they have to publicly repent. Show me proof in the modern erra and I will agree with you. (And learned something new ) I know a long long long time ago public confessions was the norm.

I’m not sure what you consider the modern era but unless otherwise revoked, much is still in force.

This is an article by Archbishop Burke who is an expert in canon law and an expert in this area. He gives several quotes throughout the Church history that say that reptentence must be established and that the scandal is corrected. If this is not done, the scandal goes on. Please note the difference between objective and subjective.

therealpresence.org/eucharst/holycom/denial.htm

 

[adam_in_ohio]

Ok. I see. Thank you!

 

[Brendan]

If I cause a scandle, Why should I have to have repent publicly? As Catholics, oue confessions are kept privet! We should give that same respect to those that choose to repent too.

Actually, when one causes scandal, there IS an obligation to repent publically.

Why? Because one sins against BOTH God and the whole body of the faithful.

When one sins, one confesses their sin to the one offended. In the case of personal sin, that is to God alone. In the case of public scandal, that is to BOTH God, and the Church community.

One needs to seek forgiveness from both. Both will forgive, but repentance needs to be offered to both.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

God doesn’t want you to pretend you are something you are not. It is a lie to wear clothing that does not identify you as God intends.

Can you quote a church document, or a church leader, saying that it’s a sin for a man to wear women’s clothing? I couldn’t find anything in the catechism.

 

[Beautiful]

Can you quote a church document, or a church leader, saying that it’s a sin for a man to wear women’s clothing? I couldn’t find anything in the catechism.

CCC 2522 Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is discreet.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Originally Posted by Neil_Anthony
Can you quote a church document, or a church leader, saying that it’s a sin for a man to wear women’s clothing? I couldn’t find anything in the catechism.

Quote:
CCC 2522 Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is discreet.

No offense, but if that’s the best quote there is, I have to conclude that the church has not condemned cross-dressing as a sin.

 

[buffalo]

Can you quote a church document, or a church leader, saying that it’s a sin for a man to wear women’s clothing? I couldn’t find anything in the catechism.

[465](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2465.htm’) The Old Testament attests that God is the source of all truth. His Word is truth. His Law is truth. His "faithfulness endures to all generations."255 Since God is “true,” the members of his people are called to live in the truth.256

[2469](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2469.htm’) "Men could not live with one another if there were not mutual confidence that they were being truthful to one another."263 The virtue of truth gives another his just due. Truthfulness keeps to the just mean between what ought to be expressed and what ought to be kept secret: it entails honesty and discretion. In justice, "as a matter of honor, one man owes it to another to manifest the truth."264

2480 Every word or attitude is forbidden which by flattery, adulation, or complaisance encourages and confirms another in malicious acts and perverse conduct. Adulation is a grave fault if it makes one an accomplice in another’s vices or grave sins. Neither the desire to be of service nor friendship justifies duplicitous speech. Adulation is a venial sin when it only seeks to be agreeable, to avoid evil, to meet a need, or to obtain legitimate advantages.

2481 *Boasting *or bragging is an offense against truth. So is *irony *aimed at disparaging someone by maliciously caricaturing some aspect of his behavior.

Lying is the most direct offense against the truth. To lie is to speak or **act **against the truth in order to lead someone into error. By injuring man’s relation to truth and to his neighbor, a lie offends against the fundamental relation of man and of his word to the Lord.