"We can't take this anymore", Holy Redeemer Parishoners want Rome to clean up the Church

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buffalo said:
[465](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/2465.htm’)😉 The Old Testament attests that God is the source of all truth. His Word is truth. His Law is truth. His "faithfulness endures to all generations."255 Since God is “true,” the members of his people are called to live in the truth.256

[2469](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/2469.htm’)😉 "Men could not live with one another if there were not mutual confidence that they were being truthful to one another."263 The virtue of truth gives another his just due. Truthfulness keeps to the just mean between what ought to be expressed and what ought to be kept secret: it entails honesty and discretion. In justice, "as a matter of honor, one man owes it to another to manifest the truth."264

2480 Every word or attitude is forbidden which by flattery, adulation, or complaisance encourages and confirms another in malicious acts and perverse conduct. Adulation is a grave fault if it makes one an accomplice in another’s vices or grave sins. Neither the desire to be of service nor friendship justifies duplicitous speech. Adulation is a venial sin when it only seeks to be agreeable, to avoid evil, to meet a need, or to obtain legitimate advantages.

2481 *Boasting *or bragging is an offense against truth. So is *irony *aimed at disparaging someone by maliciously caricaturing some aspect of his behavior.

Lying is the most direct offense against the truth. To lie is to speak or **act **against the truth in order to lead someone into error. By injuring man’s relation to truth and to his neighbor, a lie offends against the fundamental relation of man and of his word to the Lord.
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Okay, so the church does not specifically forbid men to dress as women. Thanks. I didn’t think so.
 
Neil_Anthony said:
Okay, so the church does not specifically forbid men to dress as women. Thanks. I didn’t think so.
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It doesn’t exactly specify many things that are wrong. These things fall under different umbrellas.

Now I ask you - why does someone cross dress?
 
buffalo said:
It doesn’t exactly specify many things that are wrong. These things fall under different umbrellas.
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When it comes to issues related to gender and sex, the church goes into great detail in defining what is right and wrong. It’s very telling that they haven’t condemned dressing up as the other gender.
Now I ask you - why does someone cross dress?
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To answer that you would have to see into that person’s soul (or at least get to know them). That inability to see into their souls, I’m sure, is why the bishop and the priests give the benefit of the doubt. It’s not because they’re evil or want to desecrate the Lord.
 
Neil_Anthony said:
When it comes to issues related to gender and sex, the church goes into great detail in defining what is right and wrong. It’s very telling that they haven’t condemned dressing up as the other gender.

To answer that you would have to see into that person’s soul (or at least get to know them). That inability to see into their souls, I’m sure, is why the bishop and the priests give the benefit of the doubt. It’s not because they’re evil or want to desecrate the Lord.
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The Church cannot anticipate every deviancy that humans come up with. 😦
 
buffalo said:
The Church cannot anticipate every deviancy that humans come up with. 😦
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Even the Mosaic law addresses cross-dressing, so it must not be that new:

“The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.” (Deu 22:5 AV)

Surely some church father has commented on this?
 
No slur intended, but why are you obsessing about cross dressing & being ok to go to church that way?
 
dale(name removed by moderator) said:
No slur intended, but why are you obsessing about cross dressing being ok to go to church that way?
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I just feel like someone has to defend the bishop. All he knew was that a strangely dressed man in feminine clothing presented himself for communion. The first guy didn’t even look like a nun, and the second guy could have very well been female for all he knew… how would he even know? How is he supposed to make a judgement in such a short time? He has to err on the side of ‘giving the benefit of the doubt’. He apologized once he found out who they were.

It seems that the people in the parish weren’t offended by how the men were dressed, so it wasn’t a matter of them offending the other parshioners with their dress. If they showed up in a regular parish like that, it would be a different matter. But in this scenario, I just don’t see that being dressed like that, on its own, would be a definite reason to refuse communion.

Then everyone is so concerned about protecting the Lord from these horrible sinners. We’re all sinners!
 
Neil_Anthony said:
I just feel like someone has to defend the bishop. All he knew was that a strangely dressed man in feminine clothing presented himself for communion. The first guy didn’t even look like a nun, and the second guy could have very well been female for all he knew… how would he even know? How is he supposed to make a judgement in such a short time? He has to err on the side of ‘giving the benefit of the doubt’. He apologized once he found out who they were.

Again, local context is needed here. On this very weekend in that neighborhood was the Castro Stree Fair. Now, some of you may not know what this is but this is a highly immoral event. The bishop has apologized for not knowing who they were. That said, with the activities surrounding this parish on this weekend and on a lot of weekends, the bishop should have further examined the issue before giving Communion to these men. We protect Our Lord first and foremost. Why is it that you think the AB tried to only give a blessing first?
It seems that the people in the parish weren’t offended by how the men were dressed, so it wasn’t a matter of them offending the other parshioners with their dress. If they showed up in a regular parish like that, it would be a different matter. But in this scenario, I just don’t see that being dressed like that, on its own, would be a definite reason to refuse communion.
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It seems that the parishoners of Holy Redeemer chuch in San Francisco, a parish known for its involvement in gay pride festivals and where the archbishop himself recently gave Holy Communion to the so-called “Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence”- men mockingly dressed up as Sisters of the Church- have had enough. They have sent a videotape of the Archbishop and the “Sisters” in drag to the Vatican, along with other documentation against the parish and the archbishop, demanding for Rome to take action.
“We can’t even take our children to Mass anymore. We can’t even go to our churches,” he said. "We finally got to the point, and said, ‘Hey, look, we can’t take this anymore.’
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“We want the Roman Catholic faithful to return, and are sick and tired of having to deal with men who are faithless, who are our leaders,” Gonzales said. "They come into positions of power because of other homosexuals, or at least are promoting them into positions of power.
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“We want to keep the fires burning. This guy has to know he can’t continue to get away with his actions. He’s played dumb before,” he said. "He says, ‘I guess I made a mistake.’ So he always makes these mistakes!
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“He says he didn’t recognize two gay men dressed in drag coming up to receive Communion in clown makeup!” Gonzales exclaimed.
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Holy Redeemer members tired of drag queen bingo, sexfests
 
Praise be to God! I just can’t see how the Vatican is going to be able to ignore this.

May the clean up start in California and continue east…
 
Caesar said:
It seems that the parishoners of Holy Redeemer chuch in San Francisco, a parish known for its involvement in gay pride festivals and where the archbishop himself recently gave Holy Communion to the so-called “Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence”- men mockingly dressed up as Sisters of the Church- have had enough. They have sent a videotape of the Archbishop and the “Sisters” in drag to the Vatican, along with other documentation against the parish and the archbishop, demanding for Rome to take action.

Holy Redeemer members tired of drag queen bingo, sexfests
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This isn’t correct. The people that shot the 2 different videos are **not **members of the parish. (I know both groups involved). That said, at least one group is working on burning all of this crud to a CD-rom and sending it to Rome as was done in the Oakland diocese and suggested to be done by the then Cardinal Ratzinger for diocese in trouble. The other group is working on something though. Hopefully both will cause change to occur in the SF Archdiocese.
 
This really is an utter actrocity. Sodomite activists should not be given the Eucharist or toleration!
 
All these foaming sodomites flooding that Church makes it a very dangerous environment for children.
 
bear06 said:
This isn’t correct. The people that shot the 2 different videos are **not **members of the parish. (I know both groups involved).
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Thanks for clarifying that point. I was interested to see if there was some kind of revolt going on at Most Holy Redeemer. But it seems WND simply goofed up on the title.

If anyone followed this thread from its beginning, during the week before the mass in question, then it wouldn’t be a surprise that a video showed up on the internet. Persons opposed to the activities at Most Holy Redeemers were watching, and talking, and planning.

Poor Archbishop Niederauer was going to get caught in a controversy no matter how much he tried to avoid it. Members of SPI showed up, probably daring him to turn them away from communion. And members of an outside group turned up to film events in case he didn’t turn them away.

Ideally the SPI members would have been stopped at the door. But they weren’t and Abp Niederauer was caught between a rock and a hard place.

The Archbishop needs better community intelligence gathering. Given the politics of the situation, someone on his staff should have clued him in that conservative groups were talking in advance about his upcoming mass at Most Holy Redeemer. He might have been forewarned that his actions were going to be scrutinized by the opposing sides. And he should have known that SPI members might show up.
 
Caught between a rock and a hard place??? He should get a clue and use the two eyes God gave him to see the devils don’t deserve communion.

Jesus cleaned the temple, guess he needs to pay a visit to this church. Have you seen the links for some of the garbage that this “church” lets go on???

Makes my stomach turn.
 
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