We Catholics Are Dead Sure The Church Is The One Church Of Christ And That All Others Are Mistaken

[SpiritMeadow]

i appreciate that you appreciate my faith (assuming you are not lapsing into sarcasm here? ).

Yes, i know i cannot prove my faith… i wish i could because people are missing out when they don’t have what i (RCs) have… (knowledge of the Real Presence) . the reason (one) that there are not more RCs in the world is because the RCC does not do a good job of teaching even her own members the faith. I had to find out on my own… such things as scriptural evidence for the concept of Purgatory… etc… this is the one criticism i have of the Church (other than the fact that there are so many … hypocrites There , myself included). :banghead::hypno

No kidding!!! uch:
no kidding… but that doesn’t make me any less sure… I don’t believe i would be a Christian… if it weren’t for my experiences w/ the Real Presence… Yes, i love the words of Scipture… and now i think about it, i WAS a Christian before i had knowledge of the Real Presence (experiential knowledge) … but i was not a very strong one… and i didn’t understand many things back then… suffering…what it means, why God allows it (still don’t really understand that one…) and etc… etc…

my faith had better be deep - it is all i have…

but it is also all i need… everything else in the world is … well, virtual rubbish… (doesn’t last, etc…)

God bless you also… sorry if i offended… didn’t mean to…

There was no sarcasm at all. I appreciate what you have said. While we have deep and probably unresolvable differences, i think we have managed to find a respectful way of communicating. One thing we do agree on, the Eucharist. While I doubt I would go so far as to say that I might not be a Christian without it, it is deeply meaningful to me. I feel most humble when I say, “I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed.” I feel unburdened by Christ’s perfect love. May you have a blessed day

 

[PA650]

Jesus knows his true church is the one he established, the Catholic church. Are you saying that Protestants never killed or tortured anyone? Sure you want to open that can of worms? The Catholic church went to much extremes to guide and safekeep not only the faith, but the bible as well. Even if it meant to excommunicate the Reformers who were heretics.

In my personal opinion, if there ever is a coming together of Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy then your claims would have more validity. In addition, it’s not much of a universal church when it’s divided amongst itself.

 

[motstraumen]

Jesus knows his true church is the one he established, the Catholic church. Are you saying that Protestants never killed or tortured anyone? Sure you want to open that can of worms? The Catholic church went to much extremes to guide and safekeep not only the faith, but the bible as well. Even if it meant to excommunicate the Reformers who were heretics.

By your logic of safekeeping you as a lay person should not be able to read the Bible. You also should not receive the cup. Are you desirous to go to the Catholic Church of pre-Trent? or pre-Vatican II. I know there are some that long for the Latin Mass to return, but how many understand this language any longer to the degree that they understand the beauty of liturgy. It would be a return to the era when all too many went to the blessed mass out of fear instead of out of a real desire to commune with the living God through his Word and Sacraments. And the statement of heresy is a subjective term. We could just as easily say Pope Leo was a heretic along with all the many Popes who erred because they were blinded by worldly power. But that would not be helpful. Our churches (the Lutheran and Roman Catholic Church) agree to stop this type of tripe ten or twelve years ago, so that true dialogue could be found at all levels of our churches.

 

[motstraumen]

right… all we need to know at this poiint is that Luther was off his rocker…

It is that type of tripe that get you into trouble distracted. It is not helpful. Use the gift of your brain before you write. Are you on here just to bash Protestants? That is not what your Church encourages, they want an open dialogue so we can get to know each other again on a level that has not been possible for centuries. By calling Luther off his rocker, (although he might just laugh at that, and throw back a good German retort), ends discussion. He was a doctor of the Church, your church, a respected teacher throughout Europe. He sought to make sure the average, not just the elite, understood that God loved them, and gave them freely his Son for the forgiveness of their sins and their salvation.

 

[distracted]

It is that type of tripe that get you into trouble distracted. It is not helpful. Use the gift of your brain before you write. Are you on here just to bash Protestants? That is not what your Church encourages, they want an open dialogue so we can get to know each other again on a level that has not been possible for centuries. By calling Luther off his rocker, (although he might just laugh at that, and throw back a good German retort), ends discussion. He was a doctor of the Church, your church, a respected teacher throughout Europe. He sought to make sure the average, not just the elite, understood that God loved them, and gave them freely his Son for the forgiveness of their sins and their salvation.

well, that’s your opinion…

in my opinion, he was off his rocker…

and i don’t think he would throw me a retort… i think he would probably throw a spear at me… Ever read of the war he incited the people to get involved in… Then he turned on them… told the princes to do awful (virtually unprintable) things to them… Yeah, he was a winner…

 

[distracted]

By your logic of safekeeping you as a lay person should not be able to read the Bible. You also should not receive the cup. Are you desirous to go to the Catholic Church of pre-Trent? or pre-Vatican II. I know there are some that long for the Latin Mass to return, but how many understand this language any longer to the degree that they understand the beauty of liturgy. It would be a return to the era when all too many went to the blessed mass out of fear instead of out of a real desire to commune with the living God through his Word and Sacraments. And the statement of heresy is a subjective term. We could just as easily say Pope Leo was a heretic along with all the many Popes who erred because they were blinded by worldly power. But that would not be helpful. Our churches (the Lutheran and Roman Catholic Church) agree to stop this type of tripe ten or twelve years ago, so that true dialogue could be found at all levels of our churches.

heresy is NOT a subjective term… Truth is truth… God doesn’t change… He is the same today, tomorrow…

Jesus established ONE Church… The truth doesn’t change becaues some humanoid gets a … well, you know… up his… you know… and wants to leave & start his own so called church… Luther was a heretic… hope he repented before he met the Lord… but whatever… he was a heretic till death as far as anyone (human) knows…

example: If one person believes Jesus is God and another (JWs) believe he is/was NOT… One is a heretic… OBJECTIVELY speaking… they can’t both be right

true dialogue… ho hum… that’s just an excuse to try to get Catholics to convert… or devert, as it were…

but Catholics who know the Real Presence (and/or are catechized) are NOT going to convert…

 

[distracted]

Distracted,
He’s a Lutheran pastor. He’s probably forgotten more about Luther than you’ll ever know.
I think it is safe to say that, when it comes to Luther, he is much more of an expert than you, or me for that matter.

Jon

wow… Is this God i am speaking to??

whoa… so way cool…

Folks, we are now in the presence of one who knows all… :bowdown:

 

[distracted]

Catholics:

Don’t worry. I am not holding Catholicism responsible for the words and attitudes of a few Catholics on this thread. I pray that non-Catholics here will not, either.

Christ have mercy,

O+

too bad… 99% of it is darn good stuff…

and a similar percentage reflects the views of the Church…

 

[distracted]

There was no sarcasm at all. I appreciate what you have said. While we have deep and probably unresolvable differences, i think we have managed to find a respectful way of communicating. One thing we do agree on, the Eucharist. While I doubt I would go so far as to say that I might not be a Christian without it, it is deeply meaningful to me. I feel most humble when I say, “I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed.” I feel unburdened by Christ’s perfect love. May you have a blessed day

i hope you never get so at me that you refuse to discuss things… .Yes, i can be (seem) abrasive… but i just feel very strongly about what i say… dont’ mean any harm…

i was a Christain before i knew about & appreciated the Eucharist / Real Presence of Christ in the Catholic Church…

but i had a very weak will in those days… I was Christian UNTIL… until some romantic thing came alone … Yikes… I’m so glad God delivered me from THAT kind of nonsense…

but anyway… it seem to me that… well, i know what its like being in no Churhc, being in non-Catholic churches and then, of course, being fully, catechized Catholic…

I’ve been al over the board…

and i would like to say that since I’ve become fully Catholic (particulary since spending long periods of time at the Real Presence in silence)… that i am going through what one must go through to get into Heaven (Purgatory, which can be done on Earth and/or in the afterlife)…

That is something i believe with all my heart…

and i also totally believe what some saint (or 2 or 3) once said: that the avg stay in Purg is 40 yrs…

because i feel that my own purgation has taken and will continue to take… a LOT of … hmmm… searching for a word here… uh… well… a lot of time & effort…

 

[distracted]

In my personal opinion, if there ever is a coming together of Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy then your claims would have more validity. In addition, it’s not much of a universal church when it’s divided amongst itself.

the Church is not divided… some pepole long ago decided to separate from Her…

The RCC is still intact and always will be (st Mt 16:18)

 

[Christalone]

People mistakenly think that there is an earthly organization that is the one true church. **The true church is **not an organization, not a series of buildings, but the body of true believers. The true church consists of those who are regenerate; that is, it consists of those who are the true Christians. There are, however, churches that are Christian and churches that are not Christian.

 

[JonNC]

wow… Is this God i am speaking to??

whoa… so way cool…

Folks, we are now in the presence of one who knows all… :bowdown:

Not all, just more than you or me about Luther.
Jon

EDIT: Would I be somewhat silly to say that I know more about the Catholic Church than the local priest?

 

[Harpazo]

People mistakenly think that there is an earthly organization that is the one true church. **The true church is **not an organization, not a series of buildings, but the body of true believers. The true church consists of those who are regenerate; that is, it consists of those who are the true Christians. There are, however, churches that are Christian and churches that are not Christian.

Glory to Jesus Christ,

How did you come to the conclusion of this belief and where do you find it?

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[Louie1983]

People mistakenly think that there is an earthly organization that is the one true church. **The true church is **not an organization, not a series of buildings, but the body of true believers. The true church consists of those who are regenerate; that is, it consists of those who are the true Christians. There are, however, churches that are Christian and churches that are not Christian.

Wrong, very wrong.

If what you say above is true then why are there thousands of different protestant denominations with different docrines and beliefs? Does God confuse people about his message?

 

[Louie1983]

heresy is NOT a subjective term… Truth is truth… God doesn’t change… He is the same today, tomorrow…

Jesus established ONE Church… The truth doesn’t change becaues some humanoid gets a … well, you know… up his… you know… and wants to leave & start his own so called church… Luther was a heretic… hope he repented before he met the Lord… but whatever… he was a heretic till death as far as anyone (human) knows…

example: If one person believes Jesus is God and another (JWs) believe he is/was NOT… One is a heretic… OBJECTIVELY speaking… they can’t both be right

true dialogue… ho hum… that’s just an excuse to try to get Catholics to convert… or devert, as it were…

but Catholics who know the Real Presence (and/or are catechized) are NOT going to convert…

The last sentence above i couldn’t agree more with!

I have a couple of friends who at the moment who are being confused by a couple of lutherans, my friends say to me “what they say makes sesnse”.

then i ask them “so how much do you know about the catholic faith?, have you a) read the bible, b) read the catechism of the catholic church, c) even tried to understand the church’s teaching?”

Their answer…:nope:

There are so many Catholics who leave the church because their knowledge is lacking! (and sometimes their faith).

 

[motstraumen]

well, that’s your opinion…

in my opinion, he was off his rocker…

and i don’t think he would throw me a retort… i think he would probably throw a spear at me… Ever read of the war he incited the people to get involved in… Then he turned on them… told the princes to do awful (virtually unprintable) things to them… Yeah, he was a winner…

I don’t think you’re smart enough to read a book that gave the objective truth about the Reformation era. By your comments you show how really intelligent you are. I think you wouldn’t know the truth if it stood in front of you. You would be the first Pharisee to cry out Crucify him. That is what I think! Luther never claimed to be a winner.The only winner for him was Christ and him Crucified and that is what he fought so vehemently to proclaim. Too bad the Roman Church, corrupt and erring, was afraid of the Gospel. And by your rhetoric at some level must be still teaching that. Pity.

 

[motstraumen]

The last sentence above i couldn’t agree more with!

I have a couple of friends who at the moment who are being confused by a couple of lutherans, my friends say to me “what they say makes sesnse”.

then i ask them “so how much do you know about the catholic faith?, have you a) read the bible, b) read the catechism of the catholic church, c) even tried to understand the church’s teaching?”

Their answer…:nope:

There are so many Catholics who leave the church because their knowledge is lacking! (and sometimes their faith).

Confused or enlightened? becaue the Lutheran Church encourages reading the Bible, studying history and asking questions?

 

[motstraumen]

Wrong, very wrong.

If what you say above is true then why are there thousands of different protestant denominations with different docrines and beliefs? Does God confuse people about his message?

Why are there so many Catholic orders and groups and individuals with different beliefs? Why have I heard so many sisters say I think I should be allowed to be ordained? Why doesn’t the church see my full talents? Or Catholic laity say “I wish my church encouraged me to study the Bible like you.” The Roman Church is not a monolith like so many here purport. Of course the response will be that those who differ a bit are not truly of the church…

The thing with protestantism is that the vast majority of its members don’t think Catholics are going to perdition, but from what I have experienced on this webforum, I am not so sure about our Catholic brethren and their feelings about us.

 

[motstraumen]

heresy is NOT a subjective term… Truth is truth… God doesn’t change… He is the same today, tomorrow…

Accordingly therefore Pope Leo was a heretic because he allowed the Archbishop of Magdeburg to have more the one see, and required that he pay for it in the form of 10000 ducets. That is the heresy of Simony. Ah, Look it up! Truth is Truth. Yes, God doesn’t change he is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, but history reveals that the Roman Church has. From what I deduce from you logic, you don’t get that. Do you have an English language Bible in your house? Do you ever receive the Cup at Communion or is it at least offered? Is your liturgy in Latin or English…?

Jesus established ONE Church… The truth doesn’t change becaues some humanoid gets a … well, you know… up his… you know… and wants to leave & start his own so called church… Luther was a heretic… hope he repented before he met the Lord… but whatever… he was a heretic till death as far as anyone (human) knows…

He didn’t leave the Roman “Uncatholic” Church he was excommunicated because he got in the way of their money making simony.

example: If one person believes Jesus is God and another (JWs) believe he is/was NOT… One is a heretic… OBJECTIVELY speaking… they can’t both be right

true dialogue… ho hum… that’s just an excuse to try to get Catholics to convert… or devert, as it were…

I invite you then to write to Pope Benedict and tell him he is wrong in persuing this, because we have something diabolical in store when we accepted the invitation fifty years ago to dialogue…

but Catholics who know the Real Presence (and/or are catechized) are NOT going to convert…

 

[motstraumen]

wow… Is this God i am speaking to??

whoa… so way cool…

Folks, we are now in the presence of one who knows all… :bowdown:

I think the only ones here with a God complex are you and OTAC