"We Must Affirm that the Papacy is the Anti-Christ"

[terryobrien80]

To clarify Augustine did not support faith alone…

Of course he didn’t, and neither does the Bible. There is a simple fact that no one can escape: Those two words, “faith alone”, only appear ONCE in the Bible side by side like that, right here:

James 2:24: “…You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.”

Now, you can spin it however you want, but the simple fact is, this is the ONLY place where those two words appear side by side like that, and the belief is FLATLY REJECTED

 

[turnorburn]

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There there Mary your temper is showing, nobody has accused anyone “yet” so mellow out

Same old hatred and lie of the evil one against The Father, anyone who represents The Fatherly Love , wisdom and role and all whom The Father loves !

It knows that time is running out - in a world that has been consecrated to The Woman , the enemy of the lier , by the one person with the God given lead and authority to do so, and in union with all who share in that family role ; thus she in turn , in and through The Church, to bring in the reign and control of the Holy Spirit , into more lives !

May prayers of Pope John Paul 11, all Holy Fathers , of St.Ignatius and all who support The Fatherly role and lead be with us all !

May His Mercy bring repentance to those who bring on the slavery of lies and errors and divisions by taking on the role of that one ancestor who mocked his father !

Peace !

 

[terryobrien80]

…Jesus said call no man father…

Come on turn, that shtick is getting old. The NT is filled with examples of and references to spiritual father-son and father-child relationships. Paul regularly referred to Timothy as his child: “Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ” (1 Cor. 4:17); “To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord” (1 Tim. 1:2); “To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord” (2 Tim. 1:2). He also referred to Timothy as his son: “This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare” (1 Tim 1:18); “You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 2:1); "But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospel” (Phil. 2:22). Paul also referred to other of his converts in this way: “To Titus, my true child in a common faith: grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior” (Titus 1:4); “I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment” (Philem. 10). None of these men were Paul’s literal, biological sons. Rather, Paul is emphasizing his spiritual fatherhood with them.

The most obvious verse is Paul’s statement, “I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel” (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

 

[turnorburn]

Come on turn, that shtick is getting old. The NT is filled with examples of and references to spiritual father-son and father-child relationships. Paul regularly referred to Timothy as his child: “Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ” (1 Cor. 4:17); “To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord” (1 Tim. 1:2); “To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord” (2 Tim. 1:2). He also referred to Timothy as his son: “This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare” (1 Tim 1:18); “You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 2:1); "But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospel” (Phil. 2:22). Paul also referred to other of his converts in this way: “To Titus, my true child in a common faith: grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior” (Titus 1:4); “I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment” (Philem. 10). None of these men were Paul’s literal, biological sons. Rather, Paul is emphasizing his spiritual fatherhood with them.

The most obvious verse is Paul’s statement, “I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel” (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

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There you go violating scripture

I Corinthians 4:14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.
17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.
18 Now some are puffed up, as though I would not come to you.

Paul never ever never ever instructed anybody to call him father.

Surely Mr. Obrien you can do better, why not start a thread on it?
you’ve gone far afield and are http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/offtopicsmiley1.gif

 

[terryobrien80]

Well if Jesus really meant you could not literaly call a man “father”, the why would Paul say “…I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel” (1 Cor. 4:14–15). …?

 

[po18guy]

yawn

D’oh!!!

 

[GailMac]

Ummmmmmm…whether incredulous, heretical, or dissenting, one simply isn’t in full Communion with the Church, and depending upon how incredulous, heretical or dissenting one is at the time of death, one will be judged.

Wouldn’t it be simply easier to get over the errors of one’s ways and assent to Faith with all one’s will and being? Sure, some will say it is a less-than-perfect reason for becoming a Catholic, but reason enough.

As for the blasphemy against our Holy Father by some who claim to know the Truth, they should look up the definitition of this sin and re-consider their position. Often much of what is said and done by many Protestants, is said and done to prove they aren’t Catholic! They simply have to prove to each other they have nothing to do with the Church while professing Jesus with their lips! Usually the most often attacked is our Blessed Mother. Want to prove to your fellows your AREN’T Catholic - take a few whacks at her!

They go further and further in sin and errors until they are verily the devil’s instruments in keeping those “born” into their folds suppressed enough to conform and not stray. There are those who would be Catholic if it weren’t for their families disfavor, or the repercussions to them if they were to step away from the errors their leaders impose on them, i.e. Mormon "excommunications, etc…

We simply must continue to pray for them and teach the Truth whenever given the opportunity whether in season or out of season - even if that means taking some blasphemous flack from those who wish to remain separate from full Communion with the Church who work very, very hard to keep others away from same. It is for the sake of those others we evangelize.

Peace,

Gail

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Well if Jesus really meant you could not literaly call a man “father”, the why would Paul say “…I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel” (1 Cor. 4:14–15). …?

Though Paul did NOT, “Call me you Father” did he? That is a big difference…One is a title one is a description.

 

[turnorburn]

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Hi Gail how nice off you to join us me thinks more than a few will show up for this lesson, and my word sister are you accusing me of being heretical unworthy to see Gods kingdom. Too late Gail I’ve both seen it and know my savior lives.

Care to comment

Ummmmmmm…whether incredulous, heretical, or dissenting, one simply isn’t in full Communion with the Church, and depending upon how incredulous, heretical or dissenting one is at the time of death, one will be judged.

Wouldn’t it be simply easier to get over the errors of one’s ways and assent to Faith with all one’s will and being? Sure, some will say it is a less-than-perfect reason for becoming a Catholic, but reason enough.

As for the blasphemy against our Holy Father by some who claim to know the Truth, they should look up the definitition of this sin and re-consider their position. Often much of what is said and done by many Protestants, is said and done to prove they aren’t Catholic! They simply have to prove to each other they have nothing to do with the Church while professing Jesus with their lips! Usually the most often attacked is our Blessed Mother. Want to prove to your fellows your AREN’T Catholic - take a few whacks at her!

They go further and further in sin and errors until they are verily the devil’s instruments in keeping those “born” into their folds suppressed enough to conform and not stray. There are those who would be Catholic if it weren’t for their families disfavor, or the repercussions to them if they were to step away from the errors their leaders impose on them, i.e. Mormon "excommunications, etc…

We simply must continue to pray for them and teach the Truth whenever given the opportunity whether in season or out of season - even if that means taking some blasphemous flack from those who wish to remain separate from full Communion with the Church who work very, very hard to keep others away from same. It is for the sake of those others we evangelize.

Peace,

Gail

 

[Wildgraywolf]

Though Paul did NOT, “Call me you Father” did he? That is a big difference…One is a title one is a description.

So, you’re saying that it’s acceptable that Paul assume the role of father, but not be called father? Right?

Just out of curiosity can you give an example of a title that isn’t descriptive?

 

[onaquest]

I would just like to say outloud on this thread that I love the Pope. I love that he will have to answer for me. If that dosen’t make him the Vicar of Christ I don’t know what does. But my blood is on his hands and I trust he will know who to turn to when it’s time to answer up.

Thank you for allowing me to get off subject.

 

[turnorburn]

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Go ahead shout it from the roof tops “I on a quest”
pledge allegiance- I promise my loyalty
to the Pope to the symbol
of the Vatican the country in which I live
and to the republic- a country which allows us to elect who represents us and who makes our laws
for which it stands- the flag stands for this country
one nation under God- a country where we are given religious freedom
indivisible- a country which cannot split into parts
with liberty and justice- with freedom and fairness
for all- for every citizen in this country

So you are trusting a man with your eternal soul

I would just like to say outloud on this thread that I love the Pope. I love that he will have to answer for me. If that dosen’t make him the Vicar of Christ I don’t know what does. But my blood is on his hands and I trust he will know who to turn to when it’s time to answer up.

Thank you for allowing me to get off subject.

 

[Ronald_E]

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/off-topic.jpg

Go ahead shout it from the roof tops “I on a quest”
pledge allegiance- I promise my loyalty
to the Pope to the symbol
of the Vatican the country in which I live
and to the republic- a country which allows us to elect who represents us and who makes our laws
for which it stands- the flag stands for this country
one nation under God- a country where we are given religious freedom
indivisible- a country which cannot split into parts
with liberty and justice- with freedom and fairness
for all- for every citizen in this country

So you are trusting a man with your eternal soul

Your heart seems hard. You have no idea what our faith is. You look at the physical expression and do not see the spiritual structure that creates what you see. “…on earth as it is in heaven…”

 

[turnorburn]

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We aren’t talking about my heart here Ronald, although we could in a new thread. You don’t like me do you Ron, is it because I put my faith in Jesus Christ and not that bachelor in Rome?

Your heart seems hard. You have no idea what our faith is. You look at the physical expression and do not see the spiritual structure that creates what you see. “…on earth as it is in heaven…”

 

[PerryJ]

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/off-topic.jpg

Go ahead shout it from the roof tops “I on a quest”
pledge allegiance- I promise my loyalty
to the Pope to the symbol
of the Vatican the country in which I live
and to the republic- a country which allows us to elect who represents us and who makes our laws
for which it stands- the flag stands for this country
one nation under God- a country where we are given religious freedom
indivisible- a country which cannot split into parts
with liberty and justice- with freedom and fairness
for all- for every citizen in this country

So you are trusting a man with your eternal soul

You trust a man with your soul it just happens to be Luther and not the Pope.

 

[turnorburn]

You trust a man with your soul it just happens to be Luther and not the Pope.

I want you to pay close attention if you will, I said Jesus Christ, how did Luther get into this discussion?

• Plus we’re getting http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/offtopicsmiley1.gif

 

[terryobrien80]

Though Paul did NOT, “Call me you Father” did he? That is a big difference…One is a title one is a description.

I can pull about 30 or 40 instances out of the NT where Stephen, John, and Paul call men “father” - Stephen speaking to the Sanhedrin, John speaking to elders, etc. Were they all disobeying Christ?

 

[turnorburn]

I can pull about 30 or 40 instances out of the NT where Stephen, John, and Paul call men “father” - Stephen speaking to the Sanhedrin, John speaking to elders, etc. Were they all disobeying Christ?

What a man/woman does is their business, besides we’re still getting “Way”
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[terryobrien80]

I can pull about 30 or 40 instances out of the NT where Stephen, John, and Paul call men “father” - Stephen speaking to the Sanhedrin, John speaking to elders, etc. Were they all disobeying Christ?

Acts 7:2
And he [Stephen] said, "Hear me, brethren and fathers!

Acts 22:1
Paul’s Defense before the Jews ] " Brethren and fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you."

1 Corinthians 4:15
For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

Ephesians 6:4
Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

Colossians 3:21
Fathers, do not exasperate your children, so that they will not lose heart.

1 John 2:13
I am writing to you, fathers

1 John 2:14
I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning I have written to you

So are they all disobeying Jesus? They are calling men “fathers”. Well? Or are you guys going to put the old Fundie spin on these verses too

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[mangy_dog]

Okay…now I know this will rile many people up, so let us try and maintain a charitable spirit, but…

cyberbrethren.typepad.com/cyberbrethren/2008/07/the-papacy-is-the-antichrist-the-continuing-necessity-and-validity-of-this-lutheran-confession.html

…I was very surprised to come across this article on a Lutheran blog which affirmed the necessity of considering the Papacy to be the anti-Christ predicted in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2.

The author says this for several reasons, 1. being the degree of authority the Papacy claims for itself, and 2. being the Catholic denial of the “true gospel”: faith alone, grace alone, Christ alone.

Personally, I discovered that, what I thought was just anti-Protestant CAF rhetoric (there are some posters we must really take with a grain of salt!) turned out to be true! Luther really did desire to dispose of the Epistle of James, and actually penned in the word “alone” after faith in Romans.

How can Lutherans not stop and pause at that fact?

No matter how we spin it, James says “faith without works is dead”. Clearly a dead faith is still a faith, as a dead body is still a body. Clearly dead faith does not save…how can Lutherans deny that there are conditions which prevent faith from being salvific!?

Why am I posting this? This article just really frustrated me and I thought our dialouge with the Lutherans was beyond this.

Oh yeah, I’ve read that article. As a matter of fact I have it right here in my hand and, no it doesn’t rile me up.

In fact I…oh!..did I just drop that in the trash?! oh well

Surely that’s where it belongs.

God bless the author.(s)