"We're not stupid - this is an idol" - Fr. Mitch Pacwa

[Ammi]

@Ammi
Why would you even ask that when you read and understand the entire article that explains all that? (Remember the reference to “italics?”)

No? Let me help.

’ Vatican spokesman Matteo Bruni said the pope used the word as a means to identify the statues because that is the way they have become known in the Italian media and not as a reference to the goddess.” ’

I READ IT!

This:

“In his remarks, the pope used the phrase “the pachamama statues” but in the transcript the word pachamama was in italics.

Vatican spokesman Matteo Bruni said the pope used the word as a means to identify the statues because that is the way they have become known in the Italian media and not as a reference to the goddess.”

Sorry, but that’s a very lame excuse.

I dont care what the “Italian media” thinks… I care that the image has nothing to do with pachamama! That’s a huge point, to DISTINGUISH the statue FROM Pachamama!

WHY would the Italian media come to know the statue’s as pachamama??? They should be corrected by Francis, if they are not pachamama!

 

[Crocus]

That’s a huge point, to DISTINGUISH the statue FROM Pachamama!

A bigger point is that there is no god but God. So no need to distinguish a statue from an entity that does not exist.

Thanks for reading the article. Now how about reading it with charity and filial honor? Pope Francis did not do or say anything wrong.

What does the article say about the woman who presented the statue?

 

[Ammi]

Ammi:

That’s a huge point, to DISTINGUISH the statue FROM Pachamama!

A bigger point is that there is no god but God. So no need to distinguish a statue from an entity that does not exist.

Thanks for reading the article. Now how about reading it with charity and filial honor? Pope Francis did not do or say anything wrong.

Oh, with that mentality, its impossible to have idols at all. Sorry, that’s not how idols happen.

Pachamama IS an idol

 

[Crocus]

Oh there are idols alright. They are within us, manifested as sin, when we place our desires before God. Wouldn’t you agree?

 

[Ammi]

Yes, and when people have done this, and created their idol named pachamama, the Church should distinguish a symbolic statue from pachamama!

This is so fundamental, its pathetic to have to debate.

 

[Crocus]

WHY would the Italian media come to know the statue’s as pachamama??? They should be corrected by Francis, if they are not pachamama!

A talented spinster once said “I don’t really care whether the accusations are true or not; I just wanna hear him deny it.”

Beware of nurturing accusations.

Again, charity and filial honor.

 

[Ammi]

Again, charity and filial honor.

Again… Bad mistake to call them pachamama. That alone justified tossing them in the river.

Spin it how you want. I’m done with this garbage

 

[Crocus]

What does the article say about the woman who presented the statue?

We at Where Peter Is preferred, as Paul Fahey and David Lafferty wrote recently, to “ trust in the orthodoxy and good will of the pope, the synod, and the Indigenous Catholic participants .” We oppose the hermeneutic of suspicion, by advancing a hermeneutic of faith and charity instead. Some people have decried us for having believed the native woman who presented the statue to the Pope at face value. However, we have no reason to doubt her, or her sincerity. If her representation of Our Lady is imperfect, let us build from there, instead of taking it away from her and destroying it.

 

[Vico]

FiveLinden:

There are many, many ‘religions’ with ‘gods’ that are representative of physical forces or cultural experiences shared by humans. Typically these ‘gods’ are not worshipped, praised, ‘given glory’ as is the Christian/Muslim/Jewish God.

But Isn’t that one of the distinguishing factors between The Trinity vs false gods - the former seeks our praise and honor whereas the latter doesn’t seek praise or honor per se - it’s more about offerings (I’m thinking OT & my kids have been studying ancient tribal civilizations in school lately and there seem to be a lot of offerings, dances, and other rituals involved in their worship.) This is why the bowing alone (to P-Mama) disturbs me, along with the smoke and the processions. Maybe it didn’t fully look like Judeo-Christian worship… but I don’t think that’s what those religions are going for. Yet that’s still how they worship.

The despacho ceremony done in Peru, in which offerings are burned, is to bless and express gratitude to Mother Earth for everything taken, thus restoring balance which will bring prosperity.

Now with Catholic veneration (dulia), which is different than adoration of God, there may still be incense used and reverences, and images, and the offering is benefaction: an act intending or showing kindness and good will.

 

[Ammi]

So it represents Mary? Final answer? Geez

Dont call it anything else then… especially a pagan goddess.

 

[Ammi]

Jen7:

FiveLinden:

There are many, many ‘religions’ with ‘gods’ that are representative of physical forces or cultural experiences shared by humans. Typically these ‘gods’ are not worshipped, praised, ‘given glory’ as is the Christian/Muslim/Jewish God.

But Isn’t that one of the distinguishing factors between The Trinity vs false gods - the former seeks our praise and honor whereas the latter doesn’t seek praise or honor per se - it’s more about offerings (I’m thinking OT & my kids have been studying ancient tribal civilizations in school lately and there seem to be a lot of offerings, dances, and other rituals involved in their worship.) This is why the bowing alone (to P-Mama) disturbs me, along with the smoke and the processions. Maybe it didn’t fully look like Judeo-Christian worship… but I don’t think that’s what those religions are going for. Yet that’s still how they worship.

The despacho ceremony done in Peru, in which offerings are burned, is to bless and express gratitude to Mother Earth for everything taken, thus restoring balance which will bring prosperity.

Now with Catholic veneration (dulia), which is different than adoration of God, there may still be incense used and reverences, and images, and the offering is benefaction: an act intending or showing kindness and good will.

Offerings to God are cool. Not to Earth, or a personification of it, and not to pagan goddesses.

If you call Mary “pachamama” dont complain when Catholic are offended. Basic respect to Mary.

 

[esieffe]

Not so. That goes against Vatican I (1869-70) which laid down certain conditions on papal infallibility.

I know, but out of respect I thought it prudent to let it go. It was a quick question in the confessional.

 

[Crocus]

And, your circle is complete. But regrettably, still missing the charity and filial honor. The article explains everything to one willing to understand.

 

[esieffe]

“It is believing in a growing and fruitful life to satisfy the hunger of Mother Earth’s creation

Sounds like a good pretext for offerings and sacrifices to me.

 

[Ammi]

Charity and filial honor would be NOT calling it pachamama, and correcting the “Italian media” so they dont call it pachamama either. Basic respect to ease our minds that it is NOT a pachamama statue. Why is this confusing or thought of as not charitable???

But since he did call it pachamama, explain to those concerned for VERY good reason, that its NOT a pachamama. Again, that would be the reasonable and considerate thing. To his fellow Bishops and priests, all the faithful, and to Mary.

The indigenous Catholic people, and those like Fr. Mitch who witnessed the idolatry towards this idol are understandably sensitive and offended at what this thing has drawn people into.

The indigenous Catholics SHOULD be very concerned to distance themselves from the pachamama.

I have nothing more to say about this. And I still agree with Fr. Mitch’s statements. They were brave, bold, and respectful to God first and foremost.

 

[Crocus]

correcting the “Italian media”

explain to those concerned

Unfortunately, none of this will convince those who nurse suspicion against the Holy Father; read the article with a charitable attitude, the answers are there for those with open ears.

 

[Vico]

…
Offerings to God are cool. Not to Earth, or a personification of it, and not to pagan goddesses.

If you call Mary “pachamama” dont complain when Catholic are offended. Basic respect to Mary.

I don’t call Mary Pachamama.

 

[Adamek]

Father Pacwa said it: “we are not stupid”!

But, it seems that many here don’t like that and insist on muddying the waters.

So, let’s repeat the good father’s words.

WE ARE NOT STUPID.

 

[EndTimes]

Father Pacwa said it: “we are not stupid”!

But, it seems that many here don’t like that and insist on muddying the waters.

So, let’s repeat the good father’s words.

WE ARE NOT STUPID.

Fr. Mitch Pacwa - a good Jesuit…

Yes…

And those who were behind the Pachamama Abomination - must not work For God?

 

[CatholicELATeacher]

I’m not stupid.
It’s an idol.
A pagan idol.