What’s the most irritating pro-abortion argument you’ve heard?

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JoeFreedom said:
What I find particularly disingenous about people who insist we use the term “pro-choice” over the term “pro-abortion” is that no matter how you end up defending it, the ultimate end is the same, that you choose to abort the baby.
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I don’t think this is right… I know many people who are pro-choice who have never chosen to abort a baby. Nor do they evangelize about the virtues of killing babies. They are not pro-abortion. Some I know became pregnant as teens and chose life.

It seems disingenuous and inaccurate to try to frame pro-choice people as being rabid pro-abortionist. It would be a more compelling argument to try to help them understand how they are complicit or indirectly attached to abortion by being pro choice.

I personally have never met a pro-abortion person, and that includes a few women that have, sadly, had an abortion…
 
It might be illogical if the Catholic’s only goal was to reduce the number of abortions, sure.
 
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VeryBlessed said:
Millions of people have somehow managed not to have an abortion, and not to use contraception. On a personal level of course you can be against both. These people, and the church they align themselves with, are not illogical. You’re free to disagree with the view, but “illogical” does not necessarily follow if some people differ from your view.
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It is illogical to expect that no one ever uses contraception. Unless you want a surge in unwanted pregnancies and single mothers. It’s illogical to expect everyone to wait until marriage for sex or to follow your Catholic views on sexual morality and contraception
 
upant said:
you don’t get it the goal shouldn’t be a reduction but zero. settling for reduction still allows babies to be killed. that is not acceptable, yet, you seem to be satisfied with that.
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Well, demanding that it be illegal doesn’t do very much. People have been doing it since Roe v. Wade and it it’s still legal. Maybe do something practical to lower the numbers and eventually the numbers might be zero. The thing is, it’s not all about the numbers. These are real women who for some reason choose to seek out abortion. Are you helping them to choose something else? Are you giving them the resources they need to avoid pregnancy? Are you educating them on sex and their bodies and pregnancy? Are you giving them the financial or emotional resources they need to have and support a child? Because making it illegal isn’t putting any of those women in a better position. And it’s never going to stop abortions entirely. People will still undergo illegal abortion procedures if they think it’s the best option for them. And those illegal procedures could put those women’s lives in danger as well. If you really care about saving lives you’d start focusing on helping those women and educating young men and women, not constantly arguing against it and a few rallies. (I’m not saying you aren’t helping women who need it, I’m just speaking about some pro-lifers who act as if making it illegal will solve all problems and is the end goal)
 
So is the goal to make everyone follow Catholic morality? Why is what you believe more true than what someone else believes?
 
upant said:
you want people to be responsible for others but don’t want to force personal responsibility on the parents.
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That’s just an excuse to not help.
upant said:
we have abortion because we don’t follow church teaching.
you asked what would stop abortions, it is a fact that if everyone followed the church teaching abortions would stop. just because you don’t like the solution doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be effective.
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You can’t expect people to follow Church teaching so pragmatically it has no chance to work.
rosejmj said:
Planned parenthood also provides cheap or free contraceptive methods
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Contraception is avaliable at other places and it isn’t expensive. Planned Parenthood isn’t neccessary.
jan10000 said:
You cannot be against abortion and be against contraception.
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There are other ways to get pregnant that don’t involve contraception and if they were followed than abortion would also be reduced so it is consistent.
 
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No, that’s not the goal. I’m just saying that a Catholic might be against contraception for other reasons than why they are against abortion. And Catholic morality from what I’ve seen, at least in theory, tends to be largely non-consequentialist, so the good of reducing abortions may not allow for supporting the use of contraception, even if it is a comparatively more important good.

I’m not saying I agree with the position, or the approach in general, but I don’t think it’s necessarily inconsistent.
 
jan10000 said:
Yes, the number “98%” refers to Catholic women who at least once in their lifetimes used contraception.
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No, it refers to sexually active women trying to avoid pregnancy who have not used NFP at all. It excludes women over 44, all women trying to be or who have recently been pregnant, and all women who haven’t had sex in the last 3 months. Plus, that 98% figure includes women who haven’t used contraception at all. It doesn’t at all support what you claim and the numbers aren’t even what you say.

Familiarize yourself with your evidence before you use it if you’re trying to actually participate in discussion.
 
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Many places don’t offer it for free or for cheap or require insurance. Planned parenthood always does though and is available in many places and it’s well known
 
jan10000 said:
So what is the goal then? It is clearly not pro-life. We have a proven, safe, effective means of reducing the number of abortions by eliminating unwanted pregnancies. And reduce the spread of disease on top of it. Yet Catholic teaching says doing so is a mortal sin. Why? It’s ridiculous.
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The Catholic Church says contraception is evil because contraception is evil. Full stop.

The thing with many parts of Catholic morality is you can’t have all of them without a perfect world. I agree, banning of contraception is immoral, but in a world where everyone followed Catholic sexual teaching, those problems you listed wouldn’t be problems. There’s no need for ABC in a Catholic world. We just don’t live in a Catholic world. You can’t look at religions and speak about practicality when practicality isn’t the area where religion operates.
 
rosejmj said:
Many places don’t offer it for free or for cheap or require insurance. Planned parenthood always does though and is available in many places and it’s well known
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Can people not buy some ABC at the Target / Walmart, etc? The same way they buy food, other stuff they need? Like OTC meds? I don’t understand why PP has to provide it to people for free, nowadays.
 
rosejmj said:
Many places don’t offer it for free or for cheap or require insurance. Planned parenthood always does though and is available in many places and it’s well known
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It doesn’t need to be free, the pill is cheap enough.
 
That’s not the only type of contraception. Condoms, the pill, iuds are also all offered at planned parenthood. STD tests and treatments, gynecological exams, are also provided there. Does the grocery store provide any of these things?
 
rosejmj said:
That’s not the only type of contraception. Condoms, the pill, iuds are also all offered at planned parenthood. STD tests and treatments, gynecological exams, are also provided there. Does the grocery store provide any of these things?
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No, but doctors do. And medical clinics. Do you think they are only available at PP?
 
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“Men can’t talk because men can’t get pregnant” → might be true but you can’t get pregnant without a man so I tend to think both men and women should be involved
 
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