What’s the most irritating pro-abortion argument you’ve heard?

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My fave “gotcha” question is if there were a prenatal test to diagnose the fetus as gay, what would you do.

The intent is to make the (presumably churchgoing) prolifer go all deer-in-the-headlights.

But it just makes me think “here’s a cookie, dear. The grown folks are talking.”
 
Never heard this one. Obviously I’d say…“Nothing!”.
Been hit with the “fetus’ in jars and baby in a burning house, which do you save?” one before, though.
 
Yes, I want the abortion rate to be zero. If someone agreed with me that person would not be pro-abortion, no…
 
jan10000 said:
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chercheur:
It might be illogical if the Catholic’s only goal was to reduce the number of abortions, sure.
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So what is the goal then? It is clearly not pro-life. We have a proven, safe, effective means of reducing the number of abortions by eliminating unwanted pregnancies. And reduce the spread of disease on top of it. Yet Catholic teaching says doing so is a mortal sin. Why? It’s ridiculous.

The total irrationality of the position is stunning. Imagine if we wanted to save a group of starving children, and the Church refused to feed them a shipment of pork chops because eating pork was a mortal sin. So they let the children starve in the name of maintaining the consistency of their teaching that eating pork is sinful. It’s crazy.
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The pro-choice/pro contracept solution to human problems is…less humanity.
That’s what is stunningly nonsensical. It is patently absurd. Think about what you are saying.

In stark contrast the Christian position on human life is this:
It is good to be alive. Human beings participate in human existence by pro-creation. Human beings are made and wired to participate in pro-creation, physically, spiritually, emotionally.
The Catholic Church affirms the good of human existence, and affirms the integral role that sexuality plays in human existence.
In affirming the good of human existence, the Church affirms the whole human and the whole of human activity, from womb to tomb.

The Catholic Church has an entirely consistent and well reasoned philosophy and morality surrounding human life. What it is not is…easy. But it shouldn’t be easy, should it? Is it ever easy to affirm and protect the life of other human beings? No. It takes sacrifice and deference. Easy is for bon-vivants, cads, and dictators.

By contrast the pro choice position is self contradictory, hypocritical, absurd, and barbaric.
It’s barbaric because it subjects the good of human life to the opinion and force of others, rather than reaching out to affirm life when it’s difficult.
 
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I should add to this:
The proposition that contraception reduces abortion has no basis in fact. It is demonstrably false if you look at the trendlines of both.
In fact there is good evidence that the contraceptive mentality in fact increases abortions. Contraception has been around a long time, and abortion is, to borrow a popular phrase, pandemic, with loss of life in the tens of millions.
 
rosejmj said:
I was saying that saying you are against abortion but saying you won’t impose your views on others is NOT hypocrisy as someone had stated
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Apply that to slavery and see where it gets you.
Freddy said:
Which was asked because there are some who find it difficult to understand that someone cannot be described as pro abortion if they want there to be no abortions and yet be pro choice in that they don’t want women to be prevented from having the choice should the situation require it.
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So they are pro abortion. In fact they are the most disgusting pro aborts. They support abortion, despite knowing that it is wrong.
Freddy said:
As we have seen with elf and upant, there seems to be no interest in anything which would reduce the number of abortions. It’s make it illegal and that’s it. You can forget about any other solutions.
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I actually do support measures to reduce abortions. I doubt we would support the same measures. I would not support contraception. In principal I would support free ante natal care and medical care for minors and encouraging adoption and foster care. But forced to choose one or the other I’d make abortion illegal.
 
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The accusation that Christians are only interested in legislating punitive legalistic measures against women is an old and tired canard, and it is the typical dead end of the pro choice assertion.

The fact is: The Catholic and Christian churches generally carry the burden of the world’s charitable work that helps human life flourish.
The Catholic Church specifically is the world’s largest NGO charitable organization.

The accusation that pro lifers only want legislation is old and tired.
 
no, don’t “leave it at that”. Until every pro-life person has been a 16 year old girl with no money and no job and no education and no man to take care of her and no future they have no right to pass judgement on her or her choice to have an abortion. This is not an opinion. Just a simple statement of fact.
 
davidharper said:
no, don’t “leave it at that”. Until every pro-life person has been a 16 year old girl with no money and no job and no education and no man to take care of her and no future they have no right to pass judgement on her or her choice to have an abortion. This is not an opinion. Just a simple statement of fact.
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Lets say it’s two years later. Her baby is 1 and her boyfriend has left her. She still has no job and no education, but somehow I think you’d be fine with somebody pointing out that it would be wrong for her to kill her one year old.
 
davidharper said:
no, don’t “leave it at that”. Until every pro-life person has been a 16 year old girl with no money and no job and no education and no man to take care of her and no future they have no right to pass judgement on her or her choice to have an abortion. This is not an opinion. Just a simple statement of fact.
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Compassion and empathy are great.
What you are doing above is a diversion.
“Until every free person have been a slave they have no right…etc…”
Your statement above is just you making an exception for the injustice you will tolerate.
 
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goout said:
The accusation that Christians are only interested in legislating punitive legalistic measures against women is an old and tired canard, and it is the typical dead end of the pro choice assertion.

The fact is: The Catholic and Christian churches generally carry the burden of the world’s charitable work that helps human life flourish.
The Catholic Church specifically is the world’s largest NGO charitable organization.

The accusation that pro lifers only want legislation is old and tired.
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I agree, but I think it would be good to look for some supplementary measures too.
davidharper said:
no, don’t “leave it at that”. Until every pro-life person has been a 16 year old girl with no money and no job and no education and no man to take care of her and no future they have no right to pass judgement on her or her choice to have an abortion.
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That’s obviously contrived and hardly has a place in most abortions.
 
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0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
The African Condim issue isn’t as black and white as the abortion activists would have you believe

The Catholic church is right: the condom is no cure for Aids in Africa | Giuseppe Caramazza | The Guardian
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It’s not either/or Scarlett.

When my kids were growing up and investigating their freedom my wife and I encouraged abstinence. But we made very sure that they know about contraception.

Unfortunately, God designed us with a huge sexual drive, peaking just at the time when we are least able to control it.
 
jan10000 said:
It sounds like your proposal is that every fertile female should conceive at every possible moment she is able to. Your position is flat out delusional.
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Actually that’s because you made a straw man.
jan10000 said:
To tell people that using safe, effective, and inexpensive means of preventing unwanted pregnancy and stopping the spread of disease is a mortal sin is a great evil.
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Please, the examples you mention are in countries that aren’t as developed, when the U.S. has much easier to access to birth control. Also it isn’t possible for simply saying birth control is evil to have bad effects unless whoever is listening is being inconsistent and not following the rest of Church teaching which would preclude any potential problems.
 
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jan10000 said:
Do you honestly think there would be more or less sexually transmitted diseases if the Church changed its stance?
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I don’t think it would change at all. If anyone is transmitting it would be because they don’t care about Church teaching in the first place.
jan10000 said:
What about someone that has AIDS and is married? Can they use condoms to protect their partner?
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You shouldn’t be marrying with AIDS and there are antibacterials.
jan10000 said:
If you cannot see this just you are blind to the realities of the world.
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I think you are blind to the fact that the Catholic Church isn’t actually causing anything, it’s the people themselves who are engaging in risky behavior and if they don’t use birth control it certainly isn’t because of the Church.
 
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VanitasVanitatum said:
I think you are blind to the fact that the Catholic Church isn’t actually causing anything, it’s the people themselves who are engaging in risky behavior and if they don’t use birth control it certainly isn’t because of the Church.
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:+1:t2: . . .
 
VanitasVanitatum said:
I think you are blind to the fact that the Catholic Church isn’t actually causing anything, it’s the people themselves who are engaging in risky behavior and if they don’t use birth control it certainly isn’t because of the Church.
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People have sex without using contraception you say? Well yeah, risky behaviour indeed. And you say that the answer is not to allow easy access to contraception but to tell all those people ‘don’t have sex’.

Beats me why God designed us in such a way that the sexual urge is the strongest just at the time when people are least likely to be able to control it. Bad design I say. But we have to deal with it. And denying access to contraception doesn’t come anywhere near the top of any lists of solutions made by people of a practical disposition.
 
jan10000 said:
This sort of reasoning is why I can’t Catholic teaching seriously. Examples:
  1. Gay marriage should be illegal for everyone regardless of their religion, but divorce should stay legal.
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I hope you recognize that a lot of us Catholics are bothered by that logic too.
 
Freddy said:
And denying access to contraception doesn’t come anywhere near the top of any lists of solutions made by people of a practical disposition.
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Except I haven’t done that. Contraception is available here in the U.S. and nobody is talking about restrictions anyways so no one is being denied anything.
 
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