What’s the most irritating pro-abortion argument you’ve heard?

[rosejmj]

Even if the medication itself is not that expensive one needs a prescription from a doctor and most doctors require insurance unless you want to pay several hundred dollars out of pocket plus higher cost of medication

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

unless you want to pay several hundred dollars out of pocket plus higher cost of medication

That’s kind of like abortion anyways, and you can ask for a cheaper prescription.

 

[rosejmj]

True that men get women pregnant. I still think though that the women should have the most say of what treatments she wants to go through during her pregnancy because she is the one who is pregnant and dealing with all the symptoms and pain that goes along with it and it is her body after all.

 

[rosejmj]

Well the point of getting a prescription is to avoid needing the abortion. Most people don’t want to have an abortion and it’s a last resort for them. Avoid the cost and the emotional and physical pain that comes from an abortion by getting low cost health exams and contraceptive measures. Abortions are also cheaper for people who can’t afford them. It’s a sliding scale at many planned parenthoods

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Avoid the cost and the emotional and physical pain that comes from an abortion by getting low cost health exams and contraceptive measures.

Those costs all add over time so abortion is cheaper.

 

[rosejmj]

Then you’d keep having to get abortions year after year. It’s still cheaper in the end to take contraception and it’s better for the women’s health

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Then you’d keep having to get abortions year after year. It’s still cheaper in the end to take contraception and it’s better for the women’s health

Then the cost of contraception without Planned Parenthood can be managed.

 

[rosejmj]

You don’t need to be able to afford abortions to get contraception. The point is if someone lacks insurance and money to buy contraception or to get the medical care they need, they can get some very cheap at planned parenthood to avoid any pregnancies they can’t afford at the time. Keep in mind this could even be a married women who is just not in a good place financially, health wise, or emotionally. Contraception is the best option for her because she can’t risk getting pregnant and it isn’t reasonable or healthy to abstain from marital sex for years. She may need to see a gynecologist and planned parenthood is the only way she can afford it and without it her health would be jeopardized.

 

[upant]

I think this more than shows that the Catholic teaching on birth control is ignored.

that doesn’t make it invalid,

Could this be semantics?

no, if you think it is okay for someone to have an abortion, you are pro-abortion.

There is nothing wrong with saying that if I got in a terrible car accident and it was possible to save my life by getting me to the hospital by helicopter, but most likely I’d be severely disabled for life, that I’d rather them let me die in the accident rather than take me to the hospital to try to save what little left of me there is.

can you do that on a highway at the scene of the accident? how do you know until you are properly diagnosed? who makes the decision at the scene? no, this is wrong.

It is not pro abortion at all. Maybe pro choice, but it does not mean they support abortion, just that they don’t want to take other people’s freedom

nope, you are either okay with women having abortions or you aren’t. if you are okay with it, you support abortion. get off the fence, eternity may be in play. it isn’t healthcare and it isn’t freedom, it is the death of a baby, it is barbaric.

How many examples, must be shown?

none, it is not a valid option for the church, your examples mean nothing,

those illegal procedures could put those women’s lives in danger as well.

the legal activity results in death every time, there is no comparison. do you see the unborn as a life? 60 million have died, 600,000 a year are being put to death. do you see the magnitude of this barbaric act? the days of rare are long gone, it is the new contraceptive. death after birth will be next.

So is the goal to make everyone follow Catholic morality? Why is what you believe more true than what someone else believes?

because it is the Word of God,

encouragement of contraception (instead of it being evil)

this is a Catholic forum and you are attacking church teaching do you think this is persuasive to believers who follow church teaching?

That’s just an excuse to not help.

no, it isn’t, forcing people to adopt and ignoring the actions of those who create the issue is an excuse

You can’t expect people to follow Church teaching so pragmatically it has no chance to work.

do we support the church and its teaching or the secular world? do we accept abortion because the world believes it is okay and church teaching is ignored, even by some proclaiming membership in said-church? because it isn’t working do we stop trying? do we roll over and accept abortion?

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

no, it isn’t, forcing people to adopt and ignoring the actions of those who create the issue is an excuse

It actually helps the baby while asking the parents to be responsible is not a feasible option.

do we support the church and its teaching or the secular world? do we accept abortion because the world believes it is okay and church teaching is ignored, even by some proclaiming membership in said-church? because it isn’t working do we stop trying? do we roll over and accept abortion?

Abortion is a debated issue and supposedly most see it as a necessary evil, so the thing to do is to make it not necessary by getting rid of the reasons that cause women to get an abortion in the first place which along with banning it will help a lot.

because it isn’t working do we stop trying?

I’m not saying to go against Church teaching just not to expect others to follow it.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Keep in mind this could even be a married women who is just not in a good place financially, health wise, or emotionally. Contraception is the best option for her because she can’t risk getting pregnant and it isn’t reasonable or healthy to abstain from marital sex for years. She may need to see a gynecologist and planned parenthood is the only way she can afford it and without it her health would be jeopardized.

If Planned Parenthood wants to continue then they should stop being an abortion provider.

Someone that poor should learn how to finance properly and then be able to afford some ABC on occasssion.

 

[Buks]

because it isn’t working do we stop trying?

I’m not sure what you meant. Church teaching is indeed working, no? People are failing; the teaching is successful. If I add 1+1 and my solution is 3, I probably just wasn’t paying attention to my teacher.

 

[rosejmj]

Not all people are poor people are poor because they don’t finance properly. That’s a vast generalization and it’s rude to assume that

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Not all people are poor people are poor because they don’t finance properly. That’s a vast generalization and it’s rude to assume that

I’m not saying that, I’m saying that financing is a way to get it, but really if financing won’t work they need real help not Planned Parenthood’s band-aid solutions.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Do you want to make all forms of contraception illegal too? Why not?

Abortion is killing a human being so that’s why I want it to be illegal and not contraception which only affects the users.

Expecting people, including non-Catholics, to adhere to your viewpoint that artificial contraception is a mortal sin is ridiculous.

But that’s not what I am saying, I’m saying that the teachings are consistent and it is the people’s fault if they don’t follow it. They do their own thing anyways so I’m not sure what the problem is.

• Gay marriage should be illegal for everyone regardless of their religion, but divorce should stay legal.

I don’t think that.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

It would be nice of just once people would listen to what pro-choice people are saying. Nothing would make me happier than for there to be no abortions. However, unilateral criminalization of abortion will NOT solve the problem. You and I both want abortion to stop. The difference is that I am pursuing a practical, proven and demonstrated approach to doing so. You all just want to pass a law that will cause a democratic blue wave and subsequent rescinding and massive backlash.

First this has nothing to do with what we were just talking about and
secondly I have been talking about other methods to help mothers support their children so you are wrong that I only just want it to be illegal.

It would be nice of just once people would listen to what pro-choice people are saying.

I do listen.

 

[Freddy]

jan10000:

Of course, 98% of Catholics ignore the mandate on birth control.

The study you’re referring to asked Catholic women who have had sex in the last 3 months if they have ever used a method of Artificial Birth Control. It also excluded pregnant, post-partum, and trying for pregnancy women. It even showed that 11% of respondents are using nothing for contraception. That figure is completely false.

I think it’s reasonable to suggest that any woman who has had sex within the last 3 months is sexually active. And why would a survey ask a pregnant woman what type of contraception she is currently using? The survey was to find out what methods were being used to prevent pregnancy.

And they didn’t ask if they had ever used contraception. They asked about ‘the method used in the most recent month that she had sex’.

So the 98% figure represents the percentage of sexually active Catholic women who were at risk of unintended pregnancy who were currently using contraception.

There’s a link to a pdf of the report here: Countering Conventional Wisdom: New Evidence on Religion and Contraceptive Use | Guttmacher Institute

 

[Freddy]

I’m sorry maybe I’m having a brain fart but your question doesn’t seem to make sense. What do you mean exactly?

I’m not going to repeat it. It couldn’t be simpler to understand. Buks actually thought he was missing some hidden meaning because it was such a simple question.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

Do you do nothing until that happens?

not at all, but that isn’t the issue of our discussion, you want pro-choice to mean not necessarily pro-abortion and that is nonsense. if you are willing to allow a woman to get an abortion you are pro-abortion even if you believe it should be reduced. what level of reduction is acceptable?

A reduction of one single abortion would be a success. Just saving one woman from having to go through it would be a cause for celebration. But you? You’re not interested. You have excused yourself from any discussions on how to reduce the problem. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[upant]

You have excused yourself from any discussions on how to reduce the problem. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

you don’t get to be the judge of that, you can just not respond to me.

A reduction of one single abortion would be a success.

yes, but that is not the big picture, too many lives are still taken and allowing abortion continues the slaughter. if you seek reduction that is all you will get