What’s the most irritating pro-abortion argument you’ve heard?

[Katie777]

Thatwomen should be in chrarge of thier bodies.

 

[Elf01]

I know that is the Catholic position. But why are you forcing your beliefs on others and thus causing incredible pain and suffering? This harks back to the ridiculousness of certain religious beliefs.
Imagine if your son was Jewish, and all they had was pork. They decided to let your grandson starve to death because, you know, he would go to Hell anyway if he ate the pork. Better to let him die and go to Heaven, right? Or what if your son was Mormon, and refused to allow a life saving blood transfusion for your grandchild baby? If you want to argue they have the right to allow their baby to die because of their beliefs, we can argue that. However, why would you try to convince SOMEONE ELSE to do such idiotic, life-despising things? Using a condom is PRO-LIFE. Yet orthodox Catholics refuse to allow it. It’s irrational.

My point is if you’re not going to listen to the Church on sex outside of marriage I don’t see why you’d listen to her on contraception.

 

[Elf01]

According to your belief, God specifically made sex pleasurable AND available to higher apes, outside the estrus. And then makes a special and cruel commandment NOT to use this facility for pleasure purposes - in humans! He is perfectly fine with the bonobos, who practice is left and right. Among other things to alleviate stress and frustration.

We can have sex for pleasure. The command is not to eliminate the procreative function.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

But why are you forcing your beliefs on others and thus causing incredible pain and suffering? This harks back to the ridiculousness of certain religious beliefs.

No one is being forced to do anything otherwise they wouldn’t be in danger in the first place.

 

[hope]

But why are you forcing your beliefs on others and thus causing incredible pain and suffering?
Because pro-choice isn’t pro-abortion.

Citing abortion in cases of rape or statutory rape.

I am saying that people who refuse to financially help and support babies, children, mothers and pregnant women in need, but still demand such women cannot have abortions, are not truly pro-life.

These qualify as to answer the topic of this thread.

BTW just because the abortion rate went down when the health care became law it does not mean that they are related. Abortion clinic are closing and not because of health care. To say one causes the other is illogical. It is more likely that the Pro life has been hammering home that is is wrong that the abortion rates are going down. Another irritating argument is the it is “health care” True health care doesn’t do harm.

 

[hope]

Have you ever heard of the Maccabees? It seems to me that the force of beliefs is by those who say that abortion is alright which causes incredible pain and suffering. You have Mormons mixed up with Jehovah Witnesses.
Using a condom is anti-life and against the purpose of sex.
It is like throwing up after you eat.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

It’s always really peculiar to me when anti Catholics go and accuse Catholic beliefs of causing untold pain and suffering.

I live in the US. It’s mostly Protestant, and our culture is increasingly God denying and hedonistic, sex without strings, abortion so “every child is a wanted child”, instant gratification everywhere.

Post-Christian funsie-funland yay!

Funny, though, that the rates of anxiety, depression and substance abuse continue to climb .

 

[Freddy]

Using a condom is anti-life and against the purpose of sex.

If the only purpose of sex was to conceive then you’d be right. But it isn’t. So you’re not.

 

[hope]

The purpose is to reproduce. That humans have turned it into recreation does not do away with that fact.

 

[Freddy]

The purpose is to reproduce. That humans have turned it into recreation does not do away with that fact.

The main purpose perhaps. But not the purpose. Why else nfp?

 

[hope]

You don’t make sense. You say perhaps it is the main purpose but then you say but not the purpose. Seems contradictory at best.

Nfp has a variety of reasons. I used it to get pregnant. Because some might use it to avoid pregnancy, for valid reasons one being health, does not change the purpose.

 

[Freddy]

You don’t make sense. You say perhaps it is the main purpose but then you say but not the purpose. Seems contradictory at best.

Nfp has a variety of reasons. Because some might use it to avoid pregnancy…

Not the purpose, with the emphasis on the to indicate that it’s not the only reason.

And if someone is using nfp to avoid pregnancy then the sex that they are having is not being carried out to with the purpose to conceive. In that scenario, why do you think they might be having sex?

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

But telling people not to use condoms is a moral failing

It isn’t since they shouldn’t be in that situation in the first place.

 

[hope]

No, because the change can be correlated with the health care laws. There are certain other factors but why would a Christian even deny the benefit of these laws. The position of the Church is pro-health care.

How could a Catholic argue this? I look at the dramatic reduction of abortion under the Obama administration and the extension of health care to millions and think of how wonderful that is. Most of the Catholics on this site seem to hate that. It is so sad to me.

So can the Corona virus.

But that is the general consensus.

According to who? How was this “consensus” arrived? You do realize that the rate of abortions Peeked in 1990 since then the abortion rate has continues to go down.

I am saying that people who refuse to financially help and support babies, children, mothers and pregnant women in need, but still demand such women cannot have abortions, are not truly pro-life.

It is your opinion. It is in my opinion a fallacy. It is similar to saying that you are against the environment if you use a car, have electricity, or eat meat. So I guess if you are not doing what you wrote than you must not be pro-life? Of course I already know the answer.
BTW the moral failing is to encourage people to sin against God.

The position of the Church is pro-health care.

The position of the Church is against condoms. Don’t use the Church in one way and then deny it in another. Catholics don’t hate the reduction of abortion. They do not want any abortion. My health care decreased under Obama. It wasn’t wonderful for me or for that matter other family members and friends.

 

[Freddy]

I have adopted 5 babies, been a foster parent to 7 more, including the taking on the associated financial burden for the birth mothers (and their previous children). I have been on the Board of Directors for Catholic Family Charities, the organization which promotes family planning and supports mothers in need, and helped run various fund raisers supporting pregnant women. I have also been involved with my state’s Department of Children/Families/Welfare in order to support pregnant mothers.

Thwack! Out of the park I think.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

If my underage kids decide to drink, I tell them to never drive drunk, or call an Uber.
That doesn’t mean I support underage drinking. Avoiding teaching my children the dangers of drinking and driving is a moral failing. Imagine if I told my kids to never drink, but if they do, do not call Uber or a taxi or a friend or their parents, etc. That would be deliberately sinful. Not providing them with the tools to minimize death, suffering, and pain is a horrible moral failing. Why would you teach your children not to drink but REFUSE to explain to them how they can minimize the damage?

That analogy isn’t valid because birth control is wrong for different reasons and there are others ways to stop disease

How the Church can justify this nightmare is beyond logic.

No it isn’t. Birth control isn’t neccessary if you are being logical so it is not neccessary to say its okay.

And remember, this is about the spread of DISEASE, not birth control. The Church could simply say condom use is permitted and recommended to prevent disease, but NOT as a method of birth control.

There are several ways to slow disease and the Catholic Church can choose which ones it wants to endorse.

Condom use would save lives. It would dramatically reduce pain and suffering.

Only Africa where this is a problem birth control is hardly is doing anything and Catholic teaching isn’t causing anything so that claim isn’t grounded in reality. If there are any improvements it would be because of medicine. This is really contrived anyway since it really only applies in a certain area.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Here we have a cheap, simple, effective solution for stopping untold pain and suffering and the Church still refuses to promote it.

It is a band aid solution that really just delays disease for a while. This only really applies to these areas because in most other places there are plenty of options so this is just a shamless grasp for straws then anything.

Well then how about not telling people that use or promote condoms to slow the spread of a horrific disease that they will burn in fire and suffer forever and ever.

It’s already been established that the teachings don’t effect anything.

This is a delusional viewpoint. One of the reasons Africa is so devastated is because of the emergence of Catholicism by missionaries that demonize condom use.

That’s the height of ignorance to believe that people will not use birth control when they already break other teachings so easily. The blame lies soley on the people because they clearly don’t care or they would act more reasonably.

 

[goout]

hope:

So can the Corona virus.

Are you saying that emergence of new diseases can be correlated with increased health care?

According to who? How was this “consensus” arrived? You do realize that the rate of abortions Peeked in 1990 since then the abortion rate has continues to go down.

yes but the greatest reduction was during the Obama administration. Abortions decreased in Clinton, stayed relatively flat under Bush, and then dramatically dropped under Obama.
I haven’t seen any stats on Trump. There are many references to this:

Access to birth control through ACA drives down abortion rate

It is similar to saying that you are against the environment if you use a car, have electricity, or eat meat.

Not a bad example - banning cars would never work. But reasonable restrictions, regulations, and promotion of alternatives will. That is the pro-choice position.

So I guess if you are not doing what you wrote than you must not be pro-life? Of course I already know the answer.

I have adopted 5 babies, been a foster parent to 7 more, including the taking on the associated financial burden for the birth mothers (and their previous children). I have been on the Board of Directors for Catholic Family Charities, the organization which promotes family planning and supports mothers in need, and helped run various fund raisers supporting pregnant women. I have also been involved with my state’s Department of Children/Families/Welfare in order to support pregnant mothers.

My health care decreased under Obama. It wasn’t wonderful for me or for that matter other family members and friends.

I’m not saying it’s perfect. I’m saying that the way to reduce abortions is not through unilateral criminalization but through reasoned compromises. That’s how problems get solved.

Compromises with inherent human attributes always results in barbarity. It leads to things like the 3/5 compromise. (ok, yea it’s better than 0/5 sure). And oppression of all kinds. Human dignity and value deserves full recognition in every time and place.

Human beings who are oppressed like those in the womb deserve better than compromises. And the fact that you are doing good works in adopting children ought to give you inside knowledge that the contraceptive mentality has led to the proliferation of domestic abuse, family breakdown, the objectification of women, sexual slavery, pornography, abortion. We are far removed from the proliferation of contraception and the reduction of human sexuality and human beings to objects. The day is very late in that regard. So the assertion that the Church has withheld liberty from libertines is ludicrous.

The objectification of human beings and human sexuality is an unparalleled disaster in human history.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

It saddens me beyond belief that Catholics have the ability to save millions of lives, reduce untold suffering and despair. Yet they won’t. It is an utter disgrace of epic proportions that will never be forgotten.

That article just refutes most of your points since it shows that people are using birth control so obviously the Catholic Church isn’t causing harm. Africa has tons of other problems that are just as pressing and if the Catholic Church choses to focus its efforts on them then it is just a matter of priorities.

 

[goout]

goout:

Human beings who are oppressed like those in the womb deserve better than compromises.

This isn’t about ALLOWING abortion permanently. This is about coming up with a reasonable, achievable plan that gets us to the same goal. Pro-choice Christians don’t want there to be abortions. They just realize that the pro-life approach has failed and we need real solutions, not chest-pounding holier-than-thou attitudes that make the problem worse. Again, look at Romania.

What do you mean the prolife approach has failed?
What do you mean by holier than thou chest pounding?
Please explain what you mean.