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Abrosz
Guest
But as long as they do, these methods are foolproof. No chance of failure in the “gamble”.
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VanitasVanitatum
Guest
But they won’t just like abstinence.
The context I was talking in was about birth control.
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Abrosz
Guest
And these are the best, absolutely foolproof methods of birth control.
Sex: YES.
Conception: NO.
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Sbee0
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on_the_hill
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I’ve always been willing to pay taxes for social welfare programs.
The argument that anti-abortionists have to be willing to adopt unwanted children is a misdirection.
Tell ya what—if you agree to ban all abortions under any circumstances whatsoever and criminally prosecute everyone involved in any aspect of any Illegal abortion (Mother, father, Doctor, nurse, Uber driver, office receptionist, equipment vendor, pharma rep) I’ll consider it.
The argument that anti-abortionists have to be willing to adopt unwanted children is a misdirection.
Tell ya what—if you agree to ban all abortions under any circumstances whatsoever and criminally prosecute everyone involved in any aspect of any Illegal abortion (Mother, father, Doctor, nurse, Uber driver, office receptionist, equipment vendor, pharma rep) I’ll consider it.
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on_the_hill
Guest
Why do we who value life have to defend against an argument that boils down to us having to pay someone to stop her from getting an abortion?
“I’ll kill this baby if you don’t pay me.”
“We’ll let her kill her baby if you’re not willing to pay her.”
Hurray. You’re a hero. Feel good about yourself. Here’s my lunch money. Please stop punching me.
“I’ll kill this baby if you don’t pay me.”
“We’ll let her kill her baby if you’re not willing to pay her.”
Hurray. You’re a hero. Feel good about yourself. Here’s my lunch money. Please stop punching me.
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Freddy
Guest
So the two most popular proposals so far are:Freddy:
This is laughable and shows exactly why we will not be able to have an honest conversation. Except in cases of rape (which are statistically very low), people choose to have sex. The natural ends of this is pregnancy, during normal cycles. Should one attempt to prevent this but still get pregnant anyway, whose fault is that? Or should one not prevent it and get pregnant, whose fault is that?
Make it illegal.
Stop having sex.
May I ask what you actually do at this moment?
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Freddy
Guest
If the mother doesn’t want the child then someone has to look after it. What’s your proposal for how that could happen?
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upant
Guest
this is a general response, I don’t know how I responded to @Jan10000
if you are pro-choice but don’t personally believe in abortion, how do you feel about the deaths of 60 million babies?
what do you call the premeditated ending of the life of these babies?
in 26 countries abortion is illegal, can the morals involved in the premeditated ending of the life of a child be different in one country than another? Do the guiding rules of nature change depending on where you live?
why do the democrats want to export abortion to other countries if they are so family-friendly and want to reduce abortion?
it isn’t a choice, it is death.
if you are pro-choice but don’t personally believe in abortion, how do you feel about the deaths of 60 million babies?
what do you call the premeditated ending of the life of these babies?
in 26 countries abortion is illegal, can the morals involved in the premeditated ending of the life of a child be different in one country than another? Do the guiding rules of nature change depending on where you live?
why do the democrats want to export abortion to other countries if they are so family-friendly and want to reduce abortion?
it isn’t a choice, it is death.
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upant
Guest
yes, pro-choice is pro-abortion
if a person is pro-choice they agree it is okay to abort a baby
they agree it is okay to put a baby to death
a drink versus death, not even close and really nothing compares
are these catholic options?
I missed the memo.
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VanitasVanitatum
Guest
Contraception is not hard to get.
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upant
Guest
there is no justifiable reason to kill a baby
you can’t whitewash 60 million aborted babies
one can not be against abortion and allow abortion to occur.
the baby isn’t the problem, abortion isn’t the solution
if you are willing to allow abortions, you are pro-abortion
it really is that simple.
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Freddy
Guest
Let’s keep it simple then.
Abortion isn’t going to made illegal in the US in the near future. I don’t think it’ll made illegal, period. But let’s say that it could be. In the meantime, what are your solutions to reduce the number of abortions by as much as possible. Not just in the US but in countries like Ireland where it’s almost certain not to be made illegal.
A lot of people in these type of disussions seem to have the one solution. What others do you have in the interim?
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upant
Guest
you either accept the abortion of babies or you don’t, you are either for abortion or you are against it. there is no, it’s okay because the rich won’t adopt.
you want people to be responsible for others but don’t want to force personal responsibility on the parents.
60 million dead babies aren’t moral superiority. aborting more babies isn’t the solution. follow church teaching is the solution.
wrong is wrong even if it is legal. it was wrong to kill 60 million babies and wrong to kill 600,000+ each year
follow church teachings on family life
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Freddy
Guest
So your solution is what? No sex outside marriage and no contraception within marriage. Seriously? Come on, you have carte blanche here to propose anything you like and your answer is ‘no sex outside marriage’. Is that it…?
How do you get that message out? TV? Print media? Social media? You need to reach every woman who is likely to have an abortion with a message that will convince her that there are other options. How do you do it? What funds would you need? Do you think a simple message like that would work? Who do you get to put the message across? What do you do if it has no effect? What age groups are you aiming at? Where should the money be best spent? Who can you get to support this? What rate of reduction do you think you’ll achieve? What do you offer the women who don’t take your advice and get pregnant? What do you do with the children who are born but cannot be supported?
You know, I honestly think that you have no idea about solutions. Those are just a handful of questions straight off the top of my head and there are dozens more. But all we get in these discussions is emotive language and simplistic answers to a very complex problem: Don’t have sex.
How about you give it another go.
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upant
Guest
following church teachings will reduce abortion? that is what you asked.
I gave you a solution that would work and you don’t like it, sorry but if you want a solution that allows abortion, you have the wrong person.
the life of a baby is worth what it would take.
these are excuses for abortion, what killing should we legalize next? euthanasia, oh wait, we have started down that road.
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Freddy
Guest
This wasn’t a hypothetical, upant. This wasn’t me asking about some imaginary world where everyone on the planet starts following church teachings on sex. This was a request for something practical from you.Freddy:
following church teachings will reduce abortion? that is what you asked.
A risible answer such as you gave would do literally nothing to stop one single abortion. Do you know the largest group of women in the US that actually has abortions? It’s Catholics. So your advice wouldn’t even prevent Catholics from having abortions.
You know perfectly well there are solutions which could drop the rate. Anyone with an IQ above ambient room temperature could come up with them. But you’re not interested in having that discussion. So you carry on carrying on demanding that it be made illegal and leave it to others to work it out how to reduce the ridiculously high rate. It seems you don’t want to be part of that conversation.
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poche
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The most irritating pro-abortion argument I heard was when a certain priest said that the Catholic rule against abortion is comparable to the Catholic rule against eating meat on Friday.
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upant
Guest
we have abortion because we don’t follow church teaching.
you asked what would stop abortions, it is a fact that if everyone followed the church teaching abortions would stop. just because you don’t like the solution doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be effective.
your way of thinking has no solution to end abortion, you have given up.
if they followed church teaching they wouldn’t have abortions. so yes it would work.
their choices have other consequences.
per Can. 1398, A person who procures a completed abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.
drop the rate, what level of death is acceptable? why stop with abortion?
no, I am not
one abortion is too many in a civilized society,
we have reverted back to the ages of child sacrifice.
I don’t want to be part of a conversation allowing any child to die. eternity is at stake and people are choosing where they will spend it.
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Freddy
Guest
No I did not. I asked what you would do to reduce them. And the answer is…nothing.Freddy:
we have abortion because we don’t follow church teaching.
you asked what would stop abortions…
Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
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