What about the wall? (Relevant Issues: Cont'd)

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My earlier post on: “What are the most relevant issue in the Church today?” was closed, so I am opening it up as a new post now.

My latest thought on a relevant issue was: "What about Trump’s wall?"

If I may say up front, I am a moderate conservative, but I am not particularly for the wall. On the other hand, I can also see a lot of the problems at the border, so I myself am kind of “on the fence about the wall”.

That said, the church’s role is very pro-immigration where I am here around DC, and - given the fact the Latino populations are very, very Catholic… while I tend to not want to think about the wall… nevertheless - the “border issue” (for lack of a better term) - seems probably one of the most relevant issues in the church today…

I dont claim to understand it so well, but I have developed a strong interest in Pope Francis’ work, especially around the Canonization of St Oscar Romero… St Oscar himself was a very dynamic figure in his Bishopric…

Anyway, since I am the type of person who likes to look at all possible angles of a problem… I consider myself open to listening to different perspectives on the relevance of this issue to the church and the communities involved…

I was just wondering if anyone would care to comment on the relevance of it… Forsee and alternative solutions, etc…
 
Yes. Look at the last line. It’s just generally stated. Just because it is generally stated doesn’t mean it isn’t a legitimate question. I simply asked for your opinion on the matter.
 
A lot of us have argued this enough for us to qualify for an Olympic event. As recently as yesterday. There are some very recent threads on the matter. Click the magnifying glass and enter some search terms - Trump, wall, etc.

But then, I’d rather head outside and enjoy God’s sunshine than rehash the usual talking points, so maybe I’m not a good person to comment. 😎
 
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My opinion is that border barriers are needed, and good ones. We are being overwhelmed, with something like 100,000 people were apprehended at the southern border just in March. I don’t feel that this is necessarily a moral issue, but if it is, I think that having barriers would be more moral than not having any. Not having them is encouraging hundreds of thousands of people, including children, to make the long and dangerous trip and then there is all that comes with it, including human trafficking. I do feel like the right thing to do, for people that have already been here for years and are otherwise law abiding, would be to offer them a path to citizenship. But the flood of people at our borders has to be stopped.
 
Last time I checked, the Church is for legal immigration. I don’t see how building a barrier that forces people to use legitimate ports of entry would be an issue.
 
“The wall” is a political illusion invented by Trump…first it was to run the entire length of the Southern Border, and then it was to be paid for by Mexico, and then it was going to be a big, beautiful concrete wall, and then it was to be prefabricated concrete panels, and then it was under construction.

But now, it might end up to be a couple hundred miles; it is not going to be paid for by Mexico, but from the military budget (and likely from military housing budget); it is not going to be concrete or prefab concrete panels, but instead sheet metal slats; and no, a new wall is not under construction, just a few miles of repairing the same fencing that Trump called ineffective.

The Wall is like bigfoot, ET, the Yedi, unicorns, or the Loch Ness Monster…its all blue smoke and mirror to rally the Trump base, who are the minority of people who hang on his every word as truth, instead of what it really is.
 
I agree with all you say, except it is not blue smoke but RED smoke.
 
I think we err when we call it Trump’s wall. That is compartmentalizing it, is it not? Past presidents have all paid lip service to the border - only one is acting. He is simply doing something about the flood of non-vetted immigrants.

My wife is from El Salvador and would help build the wall if she could. She was scoped and X-rayed, tested and interviewed before her visa was finally approved. And this was as shots were being fired in the early stages of the Salvadoran civil war and blood was running.

The current wave is seeking $$$ by way of honest labor, yes. Of course! But also the world-famous freebies that await their arrival. And, a certain percentage are fleeing justice at home and a substantial percentage are already criminals when they arrive. How does this help “the children”?

Why does no one worry about the lack of improvement in living conditions in Mexico, Honduras, El Salvador? Billions in foreign aid have been squandered there and no one seems to care.

The problem is NOT the US. It is the corrupt 3rd world governments that have stolen our foreign aid instead of improving living conditions.
 
The pope did not help matters when he said “build bridges not walls.” The pope is obviously taking a swipe at President Trump. What does he even mean by build bridges? Does it mean the pope wants open borders so all can come in? Homeland security has declared a “crisis” as 75000 illegal aliens stormed our southern border in February of 2019. Now that it’s warmer it will only get worse. The pope should not just issue vague sound bites. We in the US have serious issues with this.
 
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I don’t think there is anything inherently immoral about a border wall. Whether you think it’ll actually be useful or effective is another question.

I think people who deride the wall are responding to an attitude they detect among some (again, some) of its proponents. Sometimes you’ll hear advocates of the wall talking about Hispanic immigrants in pretty noxious, borderline racist tones. That colors how people view the wall itself.
 
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LawyersGunsAndMoney said:
think people who deride the wall are responding to an attitude they detect among some (again, some ) of its proponents. Sometimes you’ll hear advocates of the wall talking about Hispanic immigrants in pretty noxious, borderline racist tones. Th
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I think if you favor a wall, military troops sent to border, etc you are immediatly accused of being racist or uncharitable. The US has the right to defend it’s borders from invasion. A country is literally defined by it’s borders.
 
Some rhetorical - I said rhetorical - questions for those who want this retired cancer patient on social security to pay those crossing the border more in benefits than I get: How many million more can we support? How many children must die of newly re-introduced childhood diseases? How many must die making the perilous journey? What happened to improving their home country, as governments past have promised? What is immoral about following the law - since these are economic “refugees”?

How few actually look at the reasons they leave (graft, corruption, theft of foreign aid dollars, lack of economic opportunity), or the reason they have been invited here (lots of freebies) and yes, work. Few seem to consider the ultimate cost of allowing billions of dollars to exit our economy. Few look at the murder, rape and robbery rates of undocumented, non-vetted aliens. Does anyone consider the misery involved in the human trafficking, and all of the ills that go with wide open borders.? What about those whose bones lie in the desert because the border is open?

Yes, it is complicated and there are no easy solutions, but working steadily toward equitable solutions is not as satisfying as badmouthing those who are trying to retain some remnant of control over who enters this nation. Lip service always seems to win the day.

I note that politics and poison both begin with “P” Politics in general creates more enemies than friends.
 
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Dracarys said:
I think if you favor a wall, military troops sent to border, etc you are immediatly accused of being racist or uncharitable. The US has the right to defend it’s borders from invasion. A country is literally defined by it’s borders.
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Agreed. We’d all do better to not immediately assume bad faith among those we disagree with, and not to lump everyone on the other side into one pile (ie not every conservative is a racist Klansman, not every liberal is an Antifa terrorist)
 
Dracarys said:
I think if you favor a wall, military troops sent to border, etc you are immediatly accused of being racist or uncharitable. The US has the right to defend it’s borders from invasion. A country is literally defined by it’s borders.
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Agreed, but there’s a real and valid reason for that… It’s only the Immigrants of Hispanic Origin (Brown People) that’re targeted by the Wall. A Southern Border Wall does nothing to stop the illegal immigration from Europe, Africa and Asia (the largest population of illegal immigrants come from Asia) who fly in or come by boat & over stay their Visas or didn’t need one to begin with (depending on the country they’re “visiting” from before they over stay) or were smuggled in shipping containers. So yes, it’s very valid for people to think supporting the Wall is racist.

It’d be interesting to hear a valid defense of how it’s Not racist against Hispanics, especially in light of Trump’s speech when he announced his run for presidency where he very specifically called all immigrants from Mexicans drug dealers, rapists & murderers. It’s offensive to our family that anyone could support him after that, let alone vote for him.

My children, U.S. Born, whose father was born in Mexico, are told by other children the same things Trump announces in his speeches - you’re rapists, go back to Mexico, I don’t speak taco, get out of our country, you don’t belong here, etc.

Yes, I’d be very interested to hear a valid defense of how this Administration isn’t racist and how it’s Not inciting an increase of racism in our society.
 
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The border from Brownsville, Tx, to El Paso, Tx, is hundreds of miles. El Paso is not even halfway to California.
Have any idea how much the construction of a wall would cost? We are talking of billions and billions of dollars. Money that could be better spent on improving infrastructure in this country.
Trump said Mexico would pay for this wall. We Texans still are laughing about that statement.
Besides the cost, what about property being stolen by the government. American property owners will have land taken away from them through eminent domain, because the wall must be built on the Texas side of the Rio Grande River.
A wall is not cost effective. And it will not work.
 
YourNameHere said:
We Texans still are laughing about that statement.
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You do not speak for all Texans. I don’t mean to be harsh or crude. I just know that for a fact.

By the way, there is a lot of cost/benefit analysis at play. Drugs kill people. People die trying to cross the border. This is no fun and games. I’ve leaned towards more security and not the wall but all the same.
 
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No, I speak for those of us who actually live along the border. Not those who reside in Houston and Dallas
 
The majority of people who die from drugs in this country die from opiods. Most of these drugs are sold legally in this country. They don’t come in from the border. They are manufacture by Big Pharma and sold in places like Tennessee, Kentucky, and Indiana.
 
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