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Anrakyr
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Because walls don’t stop planes and other legal methods to enter.
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Dracarys
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No one supports abuse of any kind. Why do you think they do? We as the United States have a right and a duty to protect our borders from invasion of illegal aliens. If fault is found with the people engaged in that defense of our country they should be fired and prosecuted. That certainly does not mean we should not protect our borders.
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SeraficLeo
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You think enormous quantities of drug and human trafficking occurs over commercial airlines flying internationally into the United States? You realize there are drug dogs and paperwork requirements for flying into the United States from abroad, right? Are you saying we need to further tighten airport security?
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A wall would stop some from entering.
The estimates on the costs and benefits of building the wall take into consideration that it would not stop all and would still pay for itself.
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Anrakyr
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Walls have upkeep too.
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SeraficLeo
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So are you saying we should also tare down border crossing points? Or do you believe there is no illegal crossing of the Southern U.S. border and so a wall is pointless?
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Dracarys
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I agree. I don’t like when the pope makes meaningless sound bites like 'build bridges not walls." What does that mean? It’s not a statement of support for President Trump’s efforts to secure our border. I assume the pope is speaking figuratively, but bridges physically connect people. Does that mean he wants unlimited illegal aliens here?
Some bishops and posters here say they agree the US can defend itself, but they then critisize all efforts we make to do that. I don’t see many viable ideas coming from the other side of this issue.
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Dracarys
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I don’t think anyone is trying to stop legal methods. Did you mean Illegal?
There certainly are border agents who do try to stop illegal aliens using planes. The majority of illegal aliens do come over by cutting or climbing fences. Tall, strong, strategically placed walls would certainly work well.
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Anrakyr
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I believe the cost of the wall outweighs its benefits.
No
Or a ladder.
All a border wall does is reinforce ‘they’ should stay other “there” which isn’t healthy. Cost aside it just breeds more us vs them when in reality borders have always been like a turnstile at a mall. people go in conduct business and leave again. You make it more difficult to that those that fear they won’t be able to return for the work or business just stay.
Illegal immigrants aren’t always the same thing, sometimes its fear that paperwork doesn’t work or the system failed them. Perfectly normal families who can’t trust to be treated fairly.
But hey lest we stopped one trafficker right? Doesn’t matter that he was a low ranked handler and the girls he was trading in still are on some compound somewhere but his life is over!
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SeraficLeo
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The cost of the wall is chump-change to the U.S government.
Do you believe we should have legal points of entry that are guarded and conduct security checks on people entering the United States? Is there something wrong with that? I ask you again: what is the point of having crossing points or legal ports of entry into the United States if it is perfectly moral and legitimate just to bypass them completely?
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Anrakyr
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The Wall will cost 20 billion dollars just to build. whats not even covering the cost to maintain it.
While the use government does generate 1.3 Trillion a year the reality is most of that is already spoken for.
Not really but should you choose to do so the way it’s being done is incorrect.
Free movement is good. Restricting it? Well depends on how and why. For the reasons they use today? No.
Control. Security Theatre. Politics.
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SeraficLeo
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Like I said, chump-change. Obamacare had over a trillion dollars marked for it over 10 years and you think spending 20 billion to secure the Southern border is something to fret about? That’s a laughable sum of money for U.S federal spending. Please stop pretending this is about money. I’m glad my line of questioning has made you declare your true beliefs. Now I ask you: does Mexico have the right to have border security and control checkpoints on its borders or may any American for any reason and at any time enter Mexico or any other country for whatever reason they please unhindered?
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Anrakyr
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Like I said most of the money in the budget is already spoken for.
Furthermore, healthcare is an investment in people. Not some blind attempt to throw money at a problem that can be solved better and cheaper.
I’m leaning on the money point because arguing with nationalist to be less xenophobic for any other reason than cost is pointless. Not that I’m accusing anyone here but I’d rather avoid that topic altogether. It leads nowhere.
It should work both ways yes.
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SeraficLeo
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Okay, so you are saying we should not invest in border crossing points or airport security because this is not an investment in people? Do you believe Russian agents and assets should be allowed free and unlimited access to the United States? Neo-Nazis? Islamic Jihadists? Members of the Taliban?
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Anrakyr
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For the third time, not the way they are doing it, no.
Considering they are people and you can’t tell the difference? Yes.
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Theo520
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I’m also for putting more pressure on their home Govt and Bishops to better shoulder their responsibility of caring for their citizens/flock. We can help them but we should not supplant them in their duty.
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SeraficLeo
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OKay, I appreciate your candour, but to be fair we often can tell the difference. Security is more than capable at times of identifying foreign agents, people who belong to Jihadist groups, etc. Or do you think security protocols have never prevented or deterred e.g. criminal elements from crossing borders by trying to fly or drive over borders? My only point Anrakyr is that at some point you are not going to want certain people freely moving into your country, especially if those people have an intention and desire to harm you or your loved ones, for example. Reasonable border security is not impossibly expensive - 20 billion to secure the Southern border is a bargain.
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Anrakyr
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Assuming it works better then what you have which it doesn’t.
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Wife.of.Gabriel
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Wishing you the best of Luck!
I’d love to get my kids into Catholic school, the nearest one is about 30 mins away, but it costs about $12,000. for the two of them.
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Wife.of.Gabriel
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I live in a Southern border State. All of the major drug busts are made at legal points of entry which are exclusively what the Cartels use to bring their drugs into the USA. What is needed is more security & tools at these legal points of entry to stop more of the drug flow, since they’re catching but a fraction of what comes through these legal check points. Money wasted on a Wall, prevents money to be sent to fix the actual problem when it comes to drugs.
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