What about the wall? (Relevant Issues: Cont'd)

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I don’t know much about the nitty gritty of the implications of the wall, so I won’t get into that.

But I don’t see the problem with wanting a wall in general. Assuming that problems with legal immigration/asylum seeking is also looked after.

I don’t really get the whole ‘wall=hate’ thing that democrats are saying, a more compelling argument would be to discuss why a wall may not be effective.
 
The wall does not equal hate. I am opposed to the wall mostly for environmental implications. The way that it will disrupt wildlife habitats and destroy land. If a plan that worked around those issues was made I might change my mind.

My husband is from Mexico. He is 100% in favor of the wall and would help build it if asked. He most certainly has no hate in his heart for anyone. The big voices shouting back and forth drown out the people in the middle. Most Americans don’t really belong in one extreme camp or the other, just our voices aren’t as loud.

I have been deeply struggling with many parts of this debate. The hate thrown back and forth is what I find tragic. People in the middle that don’t fit neatly in either extreme are accused of racism or other forms of hate from one extreme and are accused of wanting to allow ISIS, cartels, drugs and all forms of terrorists into the US. That is why these debates are getting so dangerous for all of us. Loud voices are beginning to sway the middle ground toward the side they slightly favor in order to not feel the hate from both. The ability to compromise is being lost. Real people in need are being lost to politics.

I am very glad you can see things the way you do. It gives hope that there is still the ability to find a path to move forward
 
blackforest said:
My comment isn’t ridiculous. The proposal to build a wall is.
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The Mexican government is using a stalling tactic, and you are ridiculously supporting it. I don’t know who is building the wall, but I assume it is either the army corps of engineers, or a private contractor. I have no doubt that the people in charge are well aware there is a river, and will take appropriate measures to allow for it. If they did not they know full well they will be sued.

I think buildng a wall is a good idea, but as an alternative I would also support stationing military at our border where the Invaders stream in at a rate of 75000 plus. What is your idea to protect this great country?
 
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13pollitos said:
The wall does not equal hate. I am opposed to the wall mostly for environmental implications. The way that it will disrupt wildlife habitats and destroy land. If a plan that worked around those issues was made I might change my mind.
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The wall is a good idea. Don’t worry nature finds a way so don’t worry about the little critters on either side. The wall is not toxic to the environment.
 
Another reason I am opposed to the wall is that it has the potential to work both ways. If a wall is built to keep people out, I will also work to keep people in. At this point in time we don’t really need to worry about that, but who knows where we will be in the future? As divided as our nation is, we don’t need to block exits.
 
Anrakyr said:
Okay I’m going to say this one last time and if you can’t get it I’m out.

The wall costs too much both in base price and upkeep compared to other forms of security (mostly intelligence) to justify.
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It’s not immediately clear why your unfounded assertion should be given much weight. As others have pointed out, the amount of money involved is actually rather small with regard to the overall budget, so while there may be reasonable arguments against the wall, this doesn’t appear to be one of them.
If you are willing to climb a mountain, ford a river or cross a desert what’s the cost of some coated rope, wire cutters and can do spirit to scale a wall?
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I’m not sure how wire cutters will aid in climbing a 30’ wall.
The border is already patrolled. Do you want to obstruct a field of view with a wall?
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If they were effectively patrolled we wouldn’t have 75K illegals crossing each month.
 
Wife.of.Gabriel said:
infrared heat sensing which picks up literally everyone within like 40+ miles
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Really now? Infrared heat sensing in the desert, where it can get up to 118*F? At night certainly that would be effective but unless coupled with motion sensors I don’t know how reliable that could be.

Regardless, I asked you to back-up your assertions with statements to that effect from, e.g., the DEA, FBI, ICE or State (or County Sheriff’s office(s), as the case might be) law enforcement agencies. Please provide something to that effect; otherwise, I don’t have any reason to believe that drug smuggling, illegal immigration or human trafficking occurs only through check-points/official border crossings.

P.S. - I lived in southern AZ for years, so I may also happen to know a thing or two about the border and border problems. The Cartels arranging assassinations, even on children of protected witnesses and their families, is something that unfortunately happened. Contracts being placed on federal and state law enforcement officers also. It’s quite horrible and absolutely has to stop: I mean the Cartels were deliberately trying to send a message that Mexican nationals could in no way hope for protection even from the U.S Federal Government.
 
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Thank you for sharing this. Might I ask if these papers and analyses include alternative, ecologically-friendly alternatives or perhaps adjustments to the border wall that could alleviate their concern for wildlife or environmental impact? Thank you in advance.
 
I’m only interested in reading them if they supply alternative options that could reasonably guarantee border security.
 
Thanks for those links! The failure of the administration to have not consulted engineering analysis is frightening.
SeraficLeo said:
I’m only interested in reading them if they supply alternative options that could reasonably guarantee border security.
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If the wall would reasonably guarantee border security I might favor it more. I’m not opposed to increasing security but the wall seems to fail on several accounts.
 
I personally can’t see how a wall could possibly fail to provide increased border protection or security.
 
SeraficLeo said:
Really now? Infrared heat sensing in the desert, where it can get up to 118*F? At night certainly that would be effective but unless coupled with motion sensors I don’t know how reliable that could be.
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We may find out soon enough what types of sensor and devices work. This is an interesting article. You might enjoy it


“Along the U.S.-Mexico border,](Trump says military troops will guard US-Mexico border)small teams of Marines are using a suite of advanced sensors and remote monitors to assist the U.S. Border Patrol in scanning the most vulnerable sections of the untamed border. These Marines belong to specialized units called Ground Sensor Platoons, and for over a decade have been quietly partnering with the U.S. Border Patrol to help agents catch drug traffickers and migrants who cross illegally into the United States from Central and South America.

Despite being infantry Marines, the weapons of choice for Ground Sensor Platoons aren’t bullets. The Tactical Remote Sensor System, or TRSS, is a suite of sensors, cameras, re-transmission devices and monitoring equipment that are used to track enemy movement. The sensors are sensitive enough to detect how many people may be walking nearby, what direction they’re traveling, and can even differentiate between different types of vehicles. Some of the sensors are equipped with day and night imaging capability, allowing Marines to identify the exact nature of their target. And like most equipment fielded by the Marine Corps, the system can take a beating: the Corps claims the sensors and relay equipment can operate autonomously for up to 30 days.“
 
Perhaps reading opposing views from reliable sources that show how the wall will fail in providing better security and protection? Perhaps you have read them and dismissed them, I don’t know. But, I’ve read several valid critiques and find them valid…and I approved the wall idea at first!
 
Is it even possible for the Marines to do anything and it not be and sound totally bad*ss, cool and awesome?
 
I know right?!?

(Don’t tell my husband I said that. He’s retired Army.)
 
Pattylt said:
Perhaps reading opposing views from reliable sources that show how the wall will fail in providing better security and protection?
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But there have been plenty of authorities who have stated that it will assist with border security. I don’t imagine a simple physical barrier, by itself, could be 100% effective - I doubt any strategy, however comprehensive, will always be 100% effective. But could you provide a source from an authority that dismisses the idea of a border wall actually assisting in providing for border security?
 
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