What ACB’s confirmation could mean for Roe v Wade

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Zerge said:
pro-CHOICE and pro-ABORTION.
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Catholic’s can not be pro-choice. The church doesn’t recognize that freedom or the law.

Bold mine
Pope St. John Paul II, Encyclical The Gospel of Life 74
Christians have a “grave obligation of conscience not to cooperate formally in practices which, even if permitted by civil legislation, are contrary to God’s law. Indeed, from the moral standpoint, it is never licit to cooperate formally in evil. [ …] This cooperation can never be justified either by invoking respect for the freedom of others or by appealing to the fact that civil law permits it or requires it ”
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Zerge said:
So it IS an interference with politics, which could cost them the loss of tax exempt status.
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I’m not an expert, but I don’t think informing people of the teachings of the Church is illegal yet.
 
upant said:
Catholic’s can not be pro-choice. The church doesn’t recognize that freedom or the law.
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I realize that. However we do not live in a Catholic theocracy.

But that has nothing to do with the difference between “pro_CHOICE” and “pro-ABORTION”. The church is free to disallow its members to be pro-choice, but that does not invalidate the choice for the non-members. And for the non-Catholics the option of choice is valid.

So, if you talk to the non-Catholics, do not confuse the two principles. All you do is make the dialog impossible. And how can you spread the “good word”, if you refuse to talk the language of the other party?
 
Zerge said:
And for the non-Catholics the option of choice is valid.
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Subjectively, perhaps. Objectively not.
Zerge said:
So, if you talk to the non-Catholics, do not confuse the two principles.
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Moral clarity is always better. There’s no difference between the two. Eventually people who support abortion politically will realize they’re acting immorally or they won’t. When a prolife person refuses to compromise his/her beliefs, it’s not going to confirm the other in his/her immorality.
 
sloancaprice said:
Very, very long. Caused deaths all over the country in states he’s never even been to.
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no, his fellow dem gov’s did a lot of that
Zerge said:
However we do not live in a Catholic theocracy.
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you are on a Catholic forum, one would think most follow church teaching

however, after reading some of the abortion posts on this site, I have my doubts that they do,
Zerge said:
But that has nothing to do with the difference between “pro_CHOICE” and “pro-ABORTION”. The church is free to disallow its members to be pro-choice, but that does not invalidate the choice for the non-members. And for the non-Catholics the option of choice is valid.
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the dead baby does not see the difference. pro-choice or pro-abortion, the baby dies. there is no difference. one is an enabler and the other…

calling it pro-choice is just an attempt for a person to clear their conscience for enabling/allowing a mother to murder her baby.
Zerge said:
All you do is make the dialog impossible.
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you play to your audience, sometimes it takes stark reality to get through even if the desired result isn’t immediate. the seed can be brutal, but effective.

yes, it can fall on deaf ears but they most likely wouldn’t be convinced with sweet talk anyway
 
sloancaprice said:
You don’t really understand the problem. 85% of abortions in America are performed on unmarried women. That is, 85% of those babies aborted are conceived outside of wedlock.
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To be absolutely clear, because I disagree with in no way means I do not understand the problem. This has been one of the biggest problems with trying to communicate with liberals. They believe our disagreement equals stupidity.

Abortion being legal is detrimental to trying to instilling a “proper view of sexuality”. Your argument fails to make any sense at all.
sloancaprice said:
But, the leader of this pro-life movement is a three-time married, cheated on every wife he has had, personal Viet Nam was not getting VD in the 70s. Yeah, that’ll work.
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Your profile states you are Catholic. I assume you are well enough catechized to want to come to a site like CAF. However, it appears you may have a bit of confusion with the whole redemption thing. That God sent his Son, Jesus to the earth to pay for our sins through his death on the cross. God, in his infinite mercy, will always welcome us back, even non Catholics. Would you liked to be judged for the rest of your life for the sins you’ve committed? Sins you’ve confessed and have received absolution for? Or do you believe God’s mercy is for everyone except Donald Trump?

So when pro-abortion folks look and say hypocrite, they should be looking in the mirror.
Zerge said:
And I do see the difference between “pro-choice” and "pro-abortion ". Do you?
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There is no difference. Saying one is pro choice is a justification for believing abortion is a perfectly fine way remove an inconvenience from a woman’s life.
 
Horton said:
Would you liked to be judged for the rest of your life for the sins you’ve committed? Sins you’ve confessed and have received absolution for? Or do you believe God’s mercy is for everyone except Donald Trump?

So when pro-abortion folks look and say
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Actually things like that should not be swept under the rug.
 
VanitasVanitatum said:
Actually things like that should not be swept under the rug.
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So what is the worst sin you’ve ever committed so we can NOT sweep it under the rug?

Seriously I do not want you to answer that question. I’m trying to make a point. Either repentance and forgiveness is for everyone or it’s not. I’ve always been taught it is for everyone, even the worst of the worst. Look back at some of saints (*liberals see below for disclaimer) and the lives they lived before turning their lives to God. I believe it is possible for anyone to change and turn themselves over to God.

We will all have to atone for our sins in the end and for me I know it will be a long process. I converted later in life, while I called myself a Christian because I believed in God, there were periods of my life no one could have called me a Christian by my behavior. I found the Catholic Church and fell in love with Christ, my faith developed into a living breathing tangible thing. I am not the person I was before, I am now working toward who God wants me to be. I have confessed my sins and received absolution & done my penance. I will do my time in purgatory. I would not want to be know by the sins of my past. I would bet there are millions of people out there just like me.

*DISCLAIMER: I am NOT suggesting President Trump is or will be a saint
sloancaprice said:
This has been one of the biggest problems with trying to communicate with conservatives. They believe our disagreement equals poorly catechized.
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I love it when someone uses my sentences back at me.
 
Horton said:
So says liberal media and Democrat politicians. To make this perfectly clear and on topic (which is not Trump and COVID) Joe & Kamala want to be able to kill babies at will, for any reason, 98% of them because it is an inconvenience to the mother. Over four years, given current statistics, that would be ABOUT 2,400,000 of babies killed, 2,352,000, again ABOUT just because mom failed to plan or decided the hot guy at the bar was worth the risk.

That you can give them a pass on that is beyond me.
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Well said, and the Democrats are in the mix for supporting Infanticide, some. I don’t know why we’d even see such a thing on a Catholic Forum, “Hello”??
Zerge said:
That is nice. Now how about his claim of “I am a very stable genius”?
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See above, does a stable genius support infanticide? No way.

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This discussion reminds me of a couple of quotes from Dr Peter Kreeft:
We are all insane. That is what original sin means. Sin is insanity. It is preferring finite joy to infinite joy, creatures to the Creator, an unhappy, Godless self to a happy, God-filled self Only God can save us from this disease. That is what the name “Jesus” means: ‘God saves’.
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How could a sane person prefer hell to heaven? And if it takes insanity to make that choice, how can anyone be blamed for it? The same argument “proves” there’s no sin on earth either. All sin is insanity: preferring self without God to God. All sin is a little souvenir from hell. It is crazy. But it’s real.
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Both Biden and Trump–and the rest of us–are far from being stable geniuses. Especially as it comes to our relationship with Christ.
 
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