What are the reasons I should (or shouldn't) become Catholic?

[kms123]

I’m curious as to what are the reasons that I should or shouldn’t become Catholic in your opinions.

Oh! and another GREAT source. Go to the top of your screen and click on Library. Hope you have lots of time to read.

 

[jmcrae]

Lots of Presbyterians are evangelical and always have been.

Edwin

I’m sure you know better than I. The ones I was brought up with didn’t do street evangelism - they thought such behaviour was vulgar.

 

[Contarini]

I’m sure you know better than I. The ones I was brought up with didn’t do street evangelism - they thought such behaviour was vulgar.

I see. You are using “evangelical” to mean “evangelistic,” and further narrowing “evangelistic” to a very specific form of evangelism.

“Evangelical” in the sense most self-proclaimed evangelicals and scholars of the subject use it does not refer primarily to street evangelism. The definition given by Christianity Today about 50 years ago was that an evangelical is a Protestant who believes in basic Christian doctrine as found in the Apostles’ Creed, and furthermore has a particular emphasis on the authority of Scripture and on a personal relationship with Christ. I think the point where this could be challenged today is the limitation of the term to Protestants, but that’s another issue. On the whole, I think this is a good definition.

Some traditional Presbyterians have had a more intellectual understanding of salvation and have not focused on a personal relationship with Christ. And of course liberal Presbyterians are not evangelicals.

Edwin

 

[Isurrender]

Because in the Catholic Church you will only find the fullness of faith there. I was a “born again” Protestant for more than 60 years and then explored in an academic and objective way to find out why Catholics do what they do at Mass. After much research, thoughtful deliberation and prayer, I joined the Catholic Church at Easter Vigil 2005 and have, I must say, never been more happy, more complete, more fulfilled in practicing my faith. Scott Hahn, who has been a bit vilified by some in this thread, was influential in my decision-making process. His conversion cd and his wife’s ultimate conversion are powerful indeed. A variety of other factors contributed to my decision, but, again, I have to emphasize that what the Catholic Church offers, most especially the Sacraments, tips the scale for me.

 

[kms123]

I’m sure you know better than I. The ones I was brought up with didn’t do street evangelism - they thought such behaviour was vulgar.

So many divisions.

The definition of Catholic means unity-all one church.

 

[jmcrae]

I see. You are using “evangelical” to mean “evangelistic,” and further narrowing “evangelistic” to a very specific form of evangelism.

Are you familiar with Campus Crusade? That’s the style I’m thinking of. Scott Hahn got his ministry start in Campus Crusade, is what I was saying, and the Presbyterian church he was in had the same kind of style, which is not the usual style for Presbyterians.

“Evangelical” in the sense most self-proclaimed evangelicals and scholars of the subject use it does not refer primarily to street evangelism. The definition given by Christianity Today about 50 years ago was that an evangelical is a Protestant who believes in basic Christian doctrine as found in the Apostles’ Creed, and furthermore has a particular emphasis on the authority of Scripture and on a personal relationship with Christ. I think the point where this could be challenged today is the limitation of the term to Protestants, but that’s another issue. On the whole, I think this is a good definition.

I see. What happened to the Seven Fundamentals? (It’s been several years since I was in an Evangelical church.)

Some traditional Presbyterians have had a more intellectual understanding of salvation and have not focused on a personal relationship with Christ. And of course liberal Presbyterians are not evangelicals.

Both of these are quite true. I find it difficult to wrap my head around the concept of a “liberal Presbyterian” though - it seems like a contradiction in terms - but I imagine anything is possible.

 

[Contarini]

Are you familiar with Campus Crusade? That’s the style I’m thinking of. Scott Hahn got his ministry start in Campus Crusade, is what I was saying, and the Presbyterian church he was in had the same kind of style, which is not the usual style for Presbyterians.

You may be right, though I’m still not 100% sure what you are talking about–you mention street evangelism, but are you also thinking of things like contemporary worship? I have known a number of Presbyterian churches that used contemporary evangelical worship styles, though usually with more attention to tradition than the more “low church” groups. I was just talking the other day to a guy who goes to the Presbyterian church in my town and he was lamenting that they are the last church in town to sing traditional hymns (I pointed out that the Episcopal church does as well, but he didn’t seem to think much of that!) and appear to be caving in to the trend toward more contemporary worship (of course, the latest trend is “emergent” worship which has elements of tradition such as incense, silence, candles, etc.).

I see. What happened to the Seven Fundamentals? (It’s been several years since I was in an Evangelical church.)

Well, even in the 50s CT did not list the Fundamentals, though more conservative evangelicals would have and some still would today. Many evangelicals would say today that what distinguishes them from fundamentalists is that they do not insist on inerrancy or premillenialism as essentials (the other fundamentals are, of course, mentioned in the Creed). Of course, many if not most evangelicals believe in those things, but they are less likely than in the past to write off those who don’t. I’m familiar with five rather than seven fundamentals, by the way.

Also, my picture of evangelicalism may be drawn too much from academics, who of course are usually more liberal and often more “high church” than the rank and file. I was so glad to discover this moderate, intellectual evangelicalism that I perhaps rate its importance too high!

Both of these are quite true. I find it difficult to wrap my head around the concept of a “liberal Presbyterian” though - it seems like a contradiction in terms - but I imagine anything is possible.

The fundamentalist-modernist controversy saw its fiercest battles among Presbyterians. And long before that, the English Presbyterians largely became Deists or Unitarians in the 18th century, and the Church of Scotland was dominated for a long time by “Moderates” who took a quite rationalistic approach to the Faith.

The C of S today is pretty liberal by and large, which is one reason why J. K. Rowling’s membership thereof may not mean quite as much as some of her conservative Christian admirers would like to think!

Edwin

 

[jmcrae]

You may be right, though I’m still not 100% sure what you are talking about–you mention street evangelism, but are you also thinking of things like contemporary worship? I have known a number of Presbyterian churches that used contemporary evangelical worship styles, though usually with more attention to tradition than the more “low church” groups.

The traditional Presbyterian service is a service of Word and psalms. Their Sunday morning worship is patterned after Matins in the Divine Office of the Catholic Church as it was practiced in the 1500s. (They basically lifted it word for word out of Father John Knox’s prayer book, I think.) They also do Vespers, when it’s called for.

The Campus Crusade style of ministry doesn’t take place in a building at all - it is street-corner “church” - those guys with the megaphones that are always getting arrested for breaking the noise by-law. What they do is they go into schools and evangelize in the lunch room or where ever kids are gathered for recreation and during their breaks. They also run after-school Bible studies, either in the school itself if they can get a room, or at someone’s home who is associated with the school. They encourage people to go to Evangelical churches on Sundays, but they don’t specify which ones.

I was just talking the other day to a guy who goes to the Presbyterian church in my town and he was lamenting that they are the last church in town to sing traditional hymns (I pointed out that the Episcopal church does as well, but he didn’t seem to think much of that!) and appear to be caving in to the trend toward more contemporary worship (of course, the latest trend is “emergent” worship which has elements of tradition such as incense, silence, candles, etc.).

Which of course, though traditional in the broader sense (being Catholic, which is the oldest of the traditions), would be completely outside of traditional Presbyterianism, as such, which never did use incense, and only ever used candles when they ran out of money to pay the light bill, and since they were always good tithers, this didn’t happen very often.

 

[zeke1319]

Ah. You practice the heresy of Gnosticism (salvation based on mysterious, hidden knowledge), or something very like it.

Welcome to the Forum.

That’s a very bad thing to claim since the dude (theopentheist) was referencing all of those statements that the Apostle Paul made to explain his belief. Paul’s concept of “the mystery” is anything but “gnosticism”.

What do you make of those statements the Apostle Paul made about the mystery and God revealing new content to him?

 

[kms123]

So many divisions.

The definition of Catholic means unity-all one church.

Please excuse

Catholic=universal

dictionary.reference.com/browse/catholic

 

[Contarini]

Please excuse

Catholic=universal

dictionary.reference.com/browse/catholic

“Catholic” has always meant one group of Christians as opposed to another. It has never meant “everyone who claims to be Christian.” See the letters of Ignatius for the first known use of the word–he is setting up “Catholics” who follow the bishop and believe in the real humanity of Christ over against those who rebel against the bishop, Judaize, and/or embrace docetism.

Edwin

 

[distracted]

It is an irrational system that has subjected millions to mental slavery.

Irrational? It is the only totally rational Christianity that exists.

It names itself after the most barbarous empire, that destroyed the Ancient Greeks and their culture, plundered the world into the dark ages, and polluted both the ideas on God and on ethics.

It names itself Roman Catholic because Peter & Paul died in Rome. Rome was the center of the known world then… Christ conquered the world…

 

[qui_est_ce]

Scott Hahn is a typical convert, a radical. He scares the daylights out of me!

There you go with your remarks again. You do this all over the threads in these forums, but I have yet to see you engage in any open discussion. Your claims have been refuted over and over, you never respond to these refutations.

Tell me what is so wrong with being a radical typical convert? The Apostles were radical, yet typical of early Christian Converts. They scared the daylights out of the Romans, so the Romans torched them, threw them to the lions…

 

[AgnosTheist]

The definition of Catholic means unity-all one church.

IMO, in religion name-definitions are next to meaningless.

like catholic=universal? yet its not.

islam=submission-to-god? yet they are not the only one who tries to submit.

protestant=one_who_protests? yet they really dont.

christian=one_who_follows_christ? lol!

 

[Janet_S]

There you go with your remarks again. You do this all over the threads in these forums, but I have yet to see you engage in any open discussion. Your claims have been refuted over and over, you never respond to these refutations.

Tell me what is so wrong with being a radical typical convert? The Apostles were radical, yet typical of early Christian Converts. They scared the daylights out of the Romans, so the Romans torched them, threw them to the lions…

It probably scares her that someone could be a Bible scholar with a promising career in Protestant academia and give it all up to follow Christ into the Catholic Church.

 

[po18guy]

in religion name-definitions are next to meaningless.

like catholic=universal? yet its not.

Let’s see, it exists throughout the world and serves the entire body of Christ. It does NOT mean that all are in lockstep with one another.

protestant=one_who_protests? yet they really dont

33,000+ denominations do not agree with each other, or with the Church of Christ. Methinks THOU doth protest too much.

christian=one_who_follows_christ?

The earliest Christians struggled against the same temptations as the modern.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Let’s see, it exists throughout the world and serves the entire body of Christ. It does NOT mean that all are in lockstep with one another.

by that logic a lot of christian sects are catholic. even the evangelical ones. but then it all falls down on what the opinion on ‘body of christ’ is.

33,000+ denominations do not agree with each other, or with the Church of Christ. Methinks THOU doth protest too much.

so? are you saying they are protesting against each other?

The earliest Christians struggled against the same temptations as the modern.

science, logic & philosophy had very little bearing back then.

 

[Janet_S]

IMO, in religion name-definitions are next to meaningless.

like catholic=universal? yet its not.

islam=submission-to-god? yet they are not the only one who tries to submit.

protestant=one_who_protests? yet they really dont.

christian=one_who_follows_christ? lol!

Or like atheist = one who doesn’t believe in God? yet we all know “there are no atheists in foxholes”

If you’re looking for a religion with perfect people, you’ll never find it. You won’t find it in atheism either. No one can “perfectly” be an atheist.

We all “miss the mark” because of original sin. Like Chesterton said in his book, St Francis of Assisi:

There is a bias in man like the bias in the bowl; and Christianity was the discovery of how to correct the bias and therefore hit the mark. There are many who will smile at the saying; but it is profoundly true to say that the glad good news brought by the Gospel was the news of original sin.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Or like atheist = one who doesn’t believe in God? yet we all know “there are no atheists in foxholes”

what you know exists mainly in your head. Dont underestimate atheists. Better yet look up “Buddhist Atheists”. AT LEAST, if anyone can die an atheist, they can. Obviously.

We all “miss the mark” because of original sin.

Original sin makes no sense at all. Thats why even jews dont buy it.

 

[qui_est_ce]

It probably scares her that someone could be a Bible scholar with a promising career in Protestant academia and give it all up to follow Christ into the Catholic Church.

She’s a he, who is a rabidly ant-Catholic, “Former” Catholic (once a Catholic, always a Catholic!), turned Protestant, interestingly, Episcople. I’m convinced there is an issue and he’s hurting, so he left the CC and found the next closest thing. Maybe an irregular marriage or abuse?