What are your thoughts on communism -negative and positive?

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Peeps said:
So what should happen to people when they promote foolish ideas? Imprisonment? “Re-education?” Execution? Forced work detail?
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No. Of course not. Obviously it is too extreme.

Re-education…that depends on how re-education is defined.
It can be good or bad, depending on the mentality of the “re-educator”.

For example, some countries re-educate potential terrorists to see their Islamic religion with a different peaceful understanding. An Iman will go and talk to the person on the polices raider.
I view that as a good not bad thing.

On the other hand, if re-education is really just corercive method, in a similar way as when some police extract confessions under duress, then that is clearly a very wrong thing to do.

Putin fined a man for calling him a f…wit on social media. But I think even doing this is a bad idea because it can be frought with abuse, police could frame people, or people can use it to suppress opposing ideas. So the negatives far far outweigh any positives in society.

I think the best way is to not make any consequences, but to educate people through social discourse about being more respectful.
 
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MNathaniel said:
It’s not actually a big feat for any country to have Catholics and Orthodox coexisting harmoniously. There are almost no more closely connected two religious traditions on the planet.

Also, “Serbian” isn’t a religion.
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If she is talking about Muslim, I was friends with a Bosnian Muslim coworker of mine for a time. I remember he was so happy when about 30 years ago he moved to the U.S. He also did not like the police. Being a young American, I had no idea why, but I think they had something close to a police state under communism. Yeah he was happy to be in a place where no government infringed upon his rights and in fact, the U.S. govt’s primary duty is to protect them.
 
I am also Bosnian (Bosnian Croat Catholic not Muslim). I guess it depends on if feel were on the wrong end on the stick in Tito’s communist Yugoslavia, and ethnic tensions.
It also depends on how far away (in time) a situation is I think. I.e, persons can feel nostalgia about something in the past if you see the bad things of today, and then remember more the good things of yesterday instead of the bad also.

Some people, Bosnian Muslim’s included, see Yugoslavia as the golden era. Naturally, not all share the same view as in any country.

 
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Thank you for adding a lot to the conversation;)
 
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Rozellelily said:
I am also Bosnian (Bosnian Croat Catholic not Muslim)
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Is it not true that the communism of Yugoslavia was much milder than that of Romania. Especially in Croatia and Slovenia and possibly also Bosnia. The Serbian area was somewhat stricter, no?
 
It is wrong not only because of what history has shown us, but to me it is the opposite of the ideal, an inversion if you will of the Christian Utopia.

The perfect system (idealistically) to me would be a benevolent monarchy (Christ at the top, who cares of nothing but his people and makes decisions for their benefit). Communism is the inversion of this…because in practice communism SAYS its the workers party, but really it is controlled by few, and generally one person at the top…(the king of the communist system). Except the only thing that happens is whatever the “king” or party leader wants to do based on his own interests. Communism is the exact opposite of what we should be striving towards.

It manipulates the people to their detriment and eventual enslavement in the name of “empowerment”, it eliminates the individual in the name of the “group” or the “state”, it creates chaos and division in the name of “equality”, it destroys religion and is based on fear, it truly is hell on earth. It is man’s attempt to replace the Kingdom of God, with the Kingdom of Man. It is Evil.
 
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Rozellelily said:
I think the best way is to not make any consequences, but to educate people through social discourse about being more respectful.
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I’m not really talking about making sassy comments about leaders.

What do you do with someone who voices and writes support for a political system that is opposed to the established political system?

E.g., advocating a democracy in a totalitarian nation? Or…advocating a totalitarian government in a democracy? Or advocating anarchy and “survival of the fittest?” Or advocating the overthrow of a despised leader? Or advocating the suppression of freedom of religion–or advocating freedom of religion in a nation that has an established “state” religion that everyone is required to profess?

ALL of these things happen here in the United States! I can go online or to the Barnes and Noble bookstore, and find dozens, HUNDREDS of essays advocating ending our democracy and establishing a communist or socialist government with suppression of many of our freedoms (for the sake of unity, of course).

We are able to present these ideas to the public without fear of arrest and punishment because our nation guarantees freedom of speech, other than when that speech will put people in immediate danger (e.g., yelling “Fire” in a crowded theater when there is no fire).

I think it’s telling that most of the formerly-communist nations now have some form of democracy and freedom of speech, religion, etc.

We are good friends with a Ukranian family (including the elderly parents) that has immigrated to the U.S., and they have NOTHING good to say about communism. It’s easy for us to see good in communism when we are typing away here on CAF, but to actually live with it…that’s much different.
 
Rozellelily said:
Communism has always talk about in a negative life, but as someone born under communist rule, perhaps hard to believe but there were positives also.
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Was it communism or - at its best - more or less benevolent and progressively sclerotic despotism?
 
Peeps said:
So what should happen to people when they promote foolish ideas? Imprisonment? “Re-education?” Execution? Forced work detail?
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There are people calling for Trump supporters to be punished for supporting him. We are not talking about one or two people, we are talking about a couple of dozen people that are important people that are viewed and interviewed in the media.
 
phil3 said:
There are people calling for Trump supporters to be punished for supporting him. We are not talking about one or two people, we are talking about a couple of dozen people that are important people that are viewed and interviewed in the media.
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That’s scary.

I think–and I know some will disagree with me–I think that the Democratic Party, in their quest for “unity” that really means conformity–is looking more and more “communist-like.”

Liberals make up many of the leaders and supporters of the Democratic Party–and in spite of the one of the prime tenets of liberalism–“I may disagree with you, but I’ll defend your right to hold onto your beliefs and say what you believe!”–liberals today seem to want everyone who disagrees with them to simply stop saying and practicing what they believe.
 
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The government still controls the farms and businesses in China.

People don’t get the choose the path toward happiness, and liberty that they should have.

People are still jailed without due process, especially clerical people.

They can close down the nation in an instant if they choose.

It’s still not a free nation.
 
Yes it’s easy to see how Communism infiltrated so many formerly Imperial nations.
 
I can only spoke for the communism of the former Yugoslavia, though I do also have some Russian friends parents that say they personally feel it was better in the USSR. Ultimately it’s not that anyone likes a totalitarian government that silences or punishes opposition, it’s that people can have nostalgia from the good things of those times -this is why I mentioned “positives”.

Regarding freedom of speech - even not all democratic countries have freedom of speech to the level like America has.
For example, Australia is a parliamentary democracy, but “the Australian Constitution does not explicitly protect freedom of expression.”
It does however protect political speech. There are instances where people have been sued/lost court cases for enormous amounts just for leaving business negative reviews online.

Public servants in Australia can, (and have) lose their jobs if they criticize Governments policies on social media, even under pseudonyms. So it is often said about communism strong criticism, but what about this sort of things in a democratic country- is this not like communism rule?

Even more so for New Zealand. Using the book example that you gave, in New Zealand an author had her books pulled from retailers for criticising an appointed member of parliaments cultural facial tattoo. While it wasn’t technically the government silencing criticism like in communism rule, the government sets the tone for the “social climate” of that country, and then private enterprises follow suit and they do the “suppressing”. So divergent opinions can still be restricted in a round about way in some democratic countries.

Another Australian example is a footballer named Israel Folau. As a Christian he made a Instagram post with a bible quote; I don’t know the verse but it was one about homosexuals (and other categories) going to hell. No derogatory comments etc, just the bible quote.
This cost him his multi-million dollar football contract and reputation.
The big push against him, you see came from the Qantas airline CEO, a very vocal gay man who personally donated $1 million dollar to push to legalise same sex marriage in Australia. Qantas is one of the biggest sponsers of the Rugby that this Folau played at…Hmmm

I guess i am saying that people say that communism was very bad for suppressing views, but hasn’t society (some countries) anyway have new forms of suppressors?..
I am not in favor of suppression of differing beliefs at all, but the freedom of speech that should exist in democracy, sometimes doesn’t anyway, so how democratic is democracy really?

www.dailymail.co.uk

Author has books pulled after criticising Maori minister's tattoo

Olivia Pierson tweeted about Nanaia Mahuta's appearance after she was appointed to parliament on Monday - becoming the nation's first Indigenous female to hold the position.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

www.smh.com.au

Former public servant loses free speech case over anonymous tweets

In a decision with major implications for the country's 2 million public servants, a former staffer's dismissal was ruled lawful by the High Court.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au
 
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Of course.

I just meant that it isn’t communist, it’s a new type of economic model, a totalitarian, human rights abusing country. But at the same time the wealth that they have is through capitalistic mesns.
 
Personally I think China is too much painted in a negative light by western media.
Of course, the reality of people being jailed without due process is a terrible one, and it does happen, and other nations should have discussion/diplomacy with China about these humans rights issue.

But about China controlling the farms, this “land grabs” by Government happens in some democratic countries also, to some degree or another. There is an Australian comedy called The Castle about this matter.
There was recently a funny story about a Chinese woman who refused to sell her property to the Chinese government, so they just built a motorway around it:)

 
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Communism always begins with an attractive ideology. Equality for all, working class and upper class workers.

However, that’s just to get their foot into the door. Once they take control, they must get all citizens to conform to the communist government’s desires and will jail or execute those who do not conform.

In the early 30’s and 40’s, the American Communist Party was growing. One person who was a college professor, ended up in the Army Air Corps during WWII, and he was sent to China, which he loved. He managed to stay in China after the war and ended up serving with Mao in helping the communist take over. However, he himself saw what direction the communist take and he himself was imprisoned by Mao. Read the book, “The Man Who Stayed Behind,” by Sidney Rittenberg.

There have been many examples of this throughout time, even here in the US of people trying to establish communities based on communist ideals. Another book that comes to mind is, “The Good Life,” by Helen and Scott Nearing. Although this book isn’t about communism per se, just as the Great Depression was hitting, the authors who were fired from their jobs as teachers in New York because of their socialist beliefs, took to living in Vermont running a farm. In the process, they attempted to organize the farmers in the area into a collective socialist structure. It failed as a few of the farmers refused to join along. Helen wrote that unless all the members agree to the socialist form of operation, it will not work. Years later the Soviet Union and eventually Mao’s Red China proved her right.

Yeah, today’s China isn’t pure communism by definition. That’s because it’s not possible to remove the individual rights of the people to make their own choices.

The closest to true communism we have is in monasteries and convents. However, the big difference there is, the members are there by choice. They can leave if they choose and they’re not cut off from family and friends.

Not so in Communist countries.

BTW, I worked and help train engineers from China. Although the Chinese government doesn’t prevent people from leaving, the family members left behind suffer the consequence of a family member who does leave.
 
It has all the qualities of the Evil One, and yes I absolutely agree that it is no coincidence that most Imperial nations were overthrown (starting with the French Revolution) and ending generally speaking after WW1. Interestingly just as Our Lady of Fatima that the errors of Russia would spread o our detriment.
 
Sure, ok, but the same could be said about any countries government. Australia has it’s sins in the inhumane treatment of “off shore processing” of refugees, USA had it’s own in the forms of prisoner treatment at Guantanamo bay and water boarding scandal etc. Is any governments hands truly clean?
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Although the Chinese government doesn’t prevent people from leaving, the family members left behind suffer the consequence of a family member who does leave.
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By consequences, do you mean consequences as in they will miss them, or do you mean some sort of harm actually from the Chinese government?
I worked with heaps of Chinese people who came to work or study from China without any retribution to their family.
 
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