What Bad Experiences you have had with Wicca?

[blacktiger057]

blacktiger,
it’s just that to Catholics, IIRC, all magic, even “white magic”, is black magic because you’re messing with stuff that’s not the Most High. That’s why I had to exorcise it.

Modern medicine isn’t of the most high either. It can be used to save lives as well as take them.

 

[Nevarlander]

Yes, still your claims are baseless! Okay, if you use magick for only good and healing, then it is fine. Magick has changed my life. Satan would certainly do no such thing as magick has done for me.

Satan will do whatever he damn well pleases if he thinks it’ll lead people away from God. That includes “good” things - Teresa de Jesus, IIRC, relates a story of a contemporary of hers, a nun, who made a deal with Satan who had originally disguised himself as Jesus but then later showed his true self. She became a locally famous visionary who did all of this good stuff - through Satan’s power. The nun eventually confessed this publicly, on her deathbed, because she knew that the cost of this reputation would be far too much to her soul.

Man, I wish I could find the source of that story. But Satan can make himself seem as awesome and pretty as he wants - Paul talks about even if angels came to bear another gospel than the gospel of Jesus, you were to ignore them, because it’s not the truth, it’s Satan pretending to spread truth so he can spread more lies. Seriously, stuff that looks all awesome and shiny isn’t always, and stuff that looks icky and weird can be good.

 

[blacktiger057]

Satan will do whatever he damn well pleases if he thinks it’ll lead people away from God. That includes “good” things - Teresa de Jesus, IIRC, relates a story of a contemporary of hers, a nun, who made a deal with Satan who had originally disguised himself as Jesus but then later showed his true self. She became a locally famous visionary who did all of this good stuff - through Satan’s power. The nun eventually confessed this publicly, on her deathbed, because she knew that the cost of this reputation would be far too much to her soul.

Man, I wish I could find the source of that story. But Satan can make himself seem as awesome and pretty as he wants - Paul talks about even if angels came to bear another gospel than the gospel of Jesus, you were to ignore them, because it’s not the truth, it’s Satan pretending to spread truth so he can spread more lies. Seriously, stuff that looks all awesome and shiny isn’t always, and stuff that looks icky and weird can be good.

I’m exetremely sorry you think that. That is not healthy thinking at all. While what you said is partly true, you cannot say it is the work of Satan simply because it is not your religion…I can guarantee that not a single Wiccan will convert to Christianity if you said that they were worshipping Satan, a deity that most of them do not even believe in.

 

[Writer]

I’m curious, what lead you to attribute the upside down cross to Wicca? In what other specific ways did you come to realize that you were “surrounded by tenants who were practicing Wicca?” Did they tell you so, or was this based on observation of specific actions?

It was based on both… They told us some things, I believe, and other things we observed or overheard. I can’t remember everything that happened while we were there, but the tenants made no attempt to hide the fact that they were into the “black arts”. I asked my wife what specifics she remembers, but her memories have faded over time, as well. For some reason, it seems that the Wiccan or Satanist influence in northwest Washington State was/is pretty strong. I also remember encountering similar stories when I lived on Whidbey Island in the San Juan Islands in Washington, but that’s been a long time now.

To be honest, though, I am not sure I am clear on the difference between a Wiccan and a Satanist. I guess I can see a bit of distinction, but the distinction is a little fuzzy.

 

[holy_wood]

Thou shall not suffer a witch to live.

 

[KarenNC]

It was based on both… They told us some things, I believe, and other things we observed or overheard. I can’t remember everything that happened while we were there, but the tenants made no attempt to hide the fact that they were into the “black arts”. I asked my wife what specifics she remembers, but her memories have faded over time, as well. For some reason, it seems that the Wiccan or Satanist influence in northwest Washington State was/is pretty strong. I also remember encountering similar stories when I lived on Whidbey Island in the San Juan Islands in Washington, but that’s been a long time now.

To be honest, though, I am not sure I am clear on the difference between a Wiccan and a Satanist. I guess I can see a bit of distinction, but the distinction is a little fuzzy.

There are a lot of people who are under the impression that anything that looks potentially occult is automatically Wiccan, those that believe that Satanism and Wicca are synonymous, that all folks who describe themselves as Neopagans are Wiccan, and lots of other mistaken ideas, so it is not surprising. The Neopagan religions are definitely in the minority in this country and it is not unusual that folks have a less complete understanding of the beliefs and practices of another religion. Look how many misconceptions many Protestant Christians have about the beliefs and practices of Catholicism, and it is much more widespread.

religioustolerance.org/wic_sata.htm might be useful in learning a bit more and getting a better idea of the distinctions. religioustolerance.org/neo_paga.htm can give a bit of an intro into the variety of religions that fall under the umbrella term of “Neopagan.”

 

[Nevarlander]

I’m exetremely sorry you think that. That is not healthy thinking at all. While what you said is partly true, you cannot say it is the work of Satan simply because it is not your religion…I can guarantee that not a single Wiccan will convert to Christianity if you said that they were worshipping Satan, a deity that most of them do not even believe in.

I’ll drive you away if I say anything more, because what you’re saying is making me angry with its absolute cluelessness, and when I get angry, I say things I don’t mean.

 

[cheese_sdc]

Thou shall not suffer a witch to live.

I’m not really sure that statement will help the discussion.

 

[cheddarsox]

Satan will do whatever he damn well pleases if he thinks it’ll lead people away from God. That includes “good” things - Teresa de Jesus, IIRC, relates a story of a contemporary of hers, a nun, who made a deal with Satan who had originally disguised himself as Jesus but then later showed his true self. She became a locally famous visionary who did all of this good stuff - through Satan’s power. The nun eventually confessed this publicly, on her deathbed, because she knew that the cost of this reputation would be far too much to her soul.

Man, I wish I could find the source of that story. But Satan can make himself seem as awesome and pretty as he wants - Paul talks about even if angels came to bear another gospel than the gospel of Jesus, you were to ignore them, because it’s not the truth, it’s Satan pretending to spread truth so he can spread more lies. Seriously, stuff that looks all awesome and shiny isn’t always, and stuff that looks icky and weird can be good.

This has always been , for me, one of the brainteasers of Catholicism. I don’t know if this sort of thinking is true, or even official teaching of the Church, but it is definitely prevalent in Catholic culture. That the closer you get to God, Jesus, the harder you pray, and sacrafice, the more likely it is that you will be attacked and fooled by Satan.

I spent much of my youth being terrified of the devil at every turn, and suspicious of every good thing that happened to me because I was constantly warned that it might be the work of the devil.

I have been told that the deep and meaningful experiences I had while in Eucharistic adoration were most likely hoaxes of Satan, because that is the most likely time and place for him to strike one of God’s own.

It always seemed to me a lose/lose situation. The harder I worked, the greater faith I had, the more likely it was I would be led away by Satan. I didn’t understand why Jesus would not protect his own, but apparently, he does not.

Sometimes I felt that Satan was given much more power, charisma, and attraction than was ever ascribed to God. It seemed that the people I knew had more faith in Satan and his ability to destroy than in God and his power, and desire,to save.

 

[cheddarsox]

Bad spells is realtive. The idea of “dark magick” is realtive. Any Witch worth their salt knows that magick is neither black nor white and deals with intent.

And from my own personal experiences, intent has nothing to with it and any form of enegetic maipulation of any type (spell work, reiki, etc) is demonic. No, not “dark” “black” or whatever term we are giving it to mask it from what it really is, is demonic. “White” magick is demonic. The greatest thing Satan ever did was convince peopel that he does not exist. And with that, that it is possible to have “White Magick”.

I am done with this conversation.

too bad, because I had some questions to ask you.

It seems that the miracles of Jesus and his Apostles, healings and such, and the absolution of sins, and blessings, and touching relics, and the like involve manipulation of energy, etc.

How are the words of consecration or a blessing, different from a spell? Does it depend on who’s power one seeks to tap into?

I don’t work with spells, and the like, so I am asking because from the outside, it doesn’t appear different, so perhaps an insider can explain it.

One reason I fled Catholicism is because they seemed to deal in the very magic they warned against.

 

[blacktiger057]

It was based on both… They told us some things, I believe, and other things we observed or overheard. I can’t remember everything that happened while we were there, but the tenants made no attempt to hide the fact that they were into the “black arts”. I asked my wife what specifics she remembers, but her memories have faded over time, as well. For some reason, it seems that the Wiccan or Satanist influence in northwest Washington State was/is pretty strong. I also remember encountering similar stories when I lived on Whidbey Island in the San Juan Islands in Washington, but that’s been a long time now.

To be honest, though, I am not sure I am clear on the difference between a Wiccan and a Satanist. I guess I can see a bit of distinction, but the distinction is a little fuzzy.

Wicca and Satanists are as opposite as Christians and Satanists.

 

[blacktiger057]

Thou shall not suffer a witch to live.

I’m sorry, but could you say that in modern english, please? I’m not sure exactly what you are saying.

 

[blacktiger057]

too bad, because I had some questions to ask you.

It seems that the miracles of Jesus and his Apostles, healings and such, and the absolution of sins, and blessings, and touching relics, and the like involve manipulation of energy, etc.

How are the words of consecration or a blessing, different from a spell? Does it depend on who’s power one seeks to tap into?

I don’t work with spells, and the like, so I am asking because from the outside, it doesn’t appear different, so perhaps an insider can explain it.

One reason I fled Catholicism is because they seemed to deal in the very magic they warned against.

Haha, yes there is very little difference at all. Even prayer is a form of magick.

 

[Nevarlander]

OK, blacktiger, I’ve calmed down. Are you part of any particular Wiccan tradition? I know that you can’t lump “Wiccans” all together as one thing. Is it real Gardnerian Wicca, an offshoot, or more like traditional nature magic that people call “Wicca” because it’s a convenient catch-all for paganism?

 

[Nevarlander]

too bad, because I had some questions to ask you.

It seems that the miracles of Jesus and his Apostles, healings and such, and the absolution of sins, and blessings, and touching relics, and the like involve manipulation of energy, etc.

How are the words of consecration or a blessing, different from a spell? Does it depend on who’s power one seeks to tap into?

I don’t work with spells, and the like, so I am asking because from the outside, it doesn’t appear different, so perhaps an insider can explain it.

One reason I fled Catholicism is because they seemed to deal in the very magic they warned against.

Cheddar,
From my POV, it kind of depends on whose power we’re looking for, but we don’t automatically expect things to work “magically”, with the forms of what we do being a guarantee of getting what we’re asking for. It also depends on one’s intentions. One’s supposed to be doing these rituals out of love for the Deity, not for the power they give us. I haven’t actually heard much from pagans about loving their deities (though if that’s just a strand I’ve missed in their beliefs, feel more than free to correct me).

 

[blacktiger057]

OK, blacktiger, I’ve calmed down. Are you part of any particular Wiccan tradition? I know that you can’t lump “Wiccans” all together as one thing. Is it real Gardnerian Wicca, an offshoot, or more like traditional nature magic that people call “Wicca” because it’s a convenient catch-all for paganism?

The one I most closely relate to is Garderian Wicca. My great grandmother was this as well and so was my grandmother. My dad’s side is purely Catholic. You can imagine how family gatherings sometimes go…

Edit: I’m leaving tommorrow to go on vacation, so I won’t be here for at least a week. Jus in case you are wondering where I am…

 

[Nevarlander]

How much time have you spent with it? B/c from an outsider’s point of view, and to other non-Wiccan pagans I’ve heard from, Gardnerian Wicca’s relationship to ancient paganism doesn’t seem to be all that particularly close. if you could explain that to me I’d appreciate it - I’d rather hear from an actual practicioner than Wikipedia.

 

[KarenNC]

How much time have you spent with it? B/c from an outsider’s point of view, and to other non-Wiccan pagans I’ve heard from, Gardnerian Wicca’s relationship to ancient paganism doesn’t seem to be all that particularly close. if you could explain that to me I’d appreciate it - I’d rather hear from an actual practicioner than Wikipedia.

Wicca is not a continuation of any ancient religion. It began in the early to mid 20th century with Gerald Gardner, as most of the Wiccans I have encountered will freely admit. If you are interested in learning more about the history of Wicca and the philosophical and societal trends leading up to it, I would highly recommend a book by British historian Ronald Hutton called “Triumph of the Moon.” It is a history, not a “how-to” book and extremely informative. It deals primarily with Wicca’s origins in Britain, its exportation to America where it became mixed up with radical feminism and then its reimportation to Britain. Very interesting.

Chas Clifton has written one on Wicca in America, but I haven’t read it yet (though it has come highly recommended). The title is “Her Hidden Children: The Rise of Wicca And Paganism in America.”

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Yes, I know what matters is the inent. What really determines if it is good or bad is the person using it. If you are using it for summoning a demon to harm someone, then some would call it black magick.

Yes, still your claims are baseless! Okay, if you use magick for only good and healing, then it is fine. Magick has changed my life. Satan would certainly do no such thing as magick has done for me.

And isn’t this contradictory with the Bible? The Bible says that demons can create nothing that can be used for good, yet I use magick for good quite often. Even prayer is a form of magick.

You will probably respond to this by saying magick is prohibited in the Bible. I think it should have been prohibited back then as well because people were much more violent and uncivilized back then. They were not ready to really understand magick and most people who claimed to be magicians often used magick for their own dark purposes or were fakes. That is why I believe it was prohibited back then.

You CANNOT tell me my claims are baseless, as it is what I went through.

I will say this once more, and then I am unsubscribing from this thread:
It does not matter how much you dress witchcraft and wicca in “light” and say that it is “white”. It is EVIL. It always has been, it always will be. You are messing with far more than you will ever understand.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

too bad, because I had some questions to ask you.

Shoot

It seems that the miracles of Jesus and his Apostles, healings and such, and the absolution of sins, and blessings, and touching relics, and the like involve manipulation of energy, etc.

How so?

How are the words of consecration or a blessing, different from a spell? Does it depend on who’s power one seeks to tap into?

Consecration and a blessing are two different things. Jesus, Himself, gave us the words of consecration, and passed on His Spirit to the disciples, given them, and those they laid hands on, the ability to use the Spirit. Consecration is the miraculous changing of the bread and the wine via the power of the Holy Spirit, not the manipulation of energy by the priest. The words of Consecration are the tangible reminders to us of what Jesus gave up for us, and it is through the Eucharistic prayer and the words of the consecration that the Holy Spirit changes the bread and the wine in to the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus.

A blessing is the asking of Jesus/Mary/Saint to pray for us (in the instance of Mary/Saint, and the official “I love you and you are Mine” of Jesus).

Neither of these involves the manipulation of energy by the person doing it. It is just done.

I don’t work with spells, and the like, so I am asking because from the outside, it doesn’t appear different, so perhaps an insider can explain it.

I hope my explanations helped. I will be glad to clarify anything you would like.

One reason I fled Catholicism is because they seemed to deal in the very magic they warned against.

Nope, no magic here. Just your average miracle