What Black Lives Matter Believe

[VonDerTann]

Under the system of Capitalism many low paid workers already feel ENSLAVED, their toils do not meet the basic necessitates for survival such as sustenance & shelter.

Bunk - so much bunk it defies credulity. Capitalism is responsible for lifting millions from poverty and for making human life easier; more productive; and paving the way for technological innovations and growth.

 

[EssentialBeing]

Capitalism is responsible for lifting millions from poverty and for making human life easier; more productive; and paving the way for technological innovations and growth.

To some extent yes, but no where near enough to stop poverty. There is enough wealth to provide for everyone on the planet, however millions are still dying from starvation & exposure

 

[VonDerTann]

And they’re a LOT worse off in anyplace non-capitalist. Want to experience human misery on a vast scale, circa 2020? Move to Venezuela, which went from being a capitalist nation, maybe the richest nation in South America, to a broke slum, all because of socialism.

 

[EssentialBeing]

Venezuela, which went from being a capitalist nation, maybe the richest nation in South America, to a broke slum, all because of socialism.

International sanctions destroys nations, Venezuela is not the only one to experience the decline in Capitalism because of sanctions, restrictions imposed to keep them obedient. Argentina & Brazil are 2 capitalist nations that are extremely wealthy, but yet many millions of their people are without shelter & food, not to mention access to basic health care & education

 

[JimG]

There is enough wealth to provide for everyone on the planet, however millions are still dying from starvation & exposure

Really? Where is all this wealth? Do the west coast billionairres have enough to supply the whole global population? Wealth derives from income, which comes from productive work. At the present in the US I see tons of jobs being advertised and no one to fill them. I personally know people who will not work because they are relying on other people to support them. That’s okay for the first 16 years of life but it can’t last forever.

 

[StudentMI]

The resources of the planet are enough to support the lives of those alive. It is how they are distributed that is the problem. The answer, however, does not lie in government but in markets and subsidiarity.

 

[EssentialBeing]

Do the west coast billionairres have enough to supply the whole global population? Wealth derives from income, which comes from productive work.

As the planet goes YES, there is enough wealth amongst our species to end poverty on the planet, the question you raise is about will & how resources are distributed.

I personally know people who will not work because they are relying on other people to support them. That’s okay for the first 16 years of life but it can’t last forever.

It has never been about not wanting to work, It is about fairer work, a fair days work for a fair days pay. Look at the minimum wage, does this allow for a fair living?

 

[JimG]

When I first began working, at age 15, I worked for minimum wage, which was $1/hr at the time. It was not enough to live on, but I didn’t care; my parents were still supporting me. The minimum wage continued to be raised. So did prices. But I was not satisfied to always work for minimum wage jobs. There is always opportunity to earn more.

 

[VonDerTann]

Argentina & Brazil are 2 capitalist nations that are extremely wealthy,

–Argentina went broke initially because of political instability, starting in the 1930s due to a military junta taking power from away from a capitalist democracy. It’s never recovered.

 

[StudentMI]

Yeah. The planet can still sustain everyone, though. It’s the distribution that is skewing things.

 

[EssentialBeing]

The minimum wage continued to be raised. So did prices. But I was not satisfied to always work for minimum wage jobs. There is always opportunity to earn more.

A very good point, however the minimum wage is not keeping up with expenses. Opportunity yes there are plenty but still not for every single person, as there is no room for everyone to be rich. Those that can not access or continue to fail with greater opportunity, need to be productive for their own survival & not turned into the poor working class

 

[StudentMI]

The only way to make minimum wages effective is to institute price controls, which is a disastrous policy move.

 

[EssentialBeing]

Absolutely, because price control would inevitably lead to upper income limits, restrictions on wealth etc. Disastrous for Capitalism & Politicians, production, innovation & technological advancement would suffer greatly, which is why we have minimum limits not maximum limits

 

[StudentMI]

I think the best answer for fair wages is to let the market work it out, ultimately. The interplay of economic forces is so widespread as to render control a fool’s game.

It has to be a market, however. Not some state capitalist shenanigans like we have in the West, including the United States.

 

[EssentialBeing]

I love the 2nd paragraph…I am laughing so loudly that I nearly fell of my chair

You make some very good points, we can not continue with the shenanigans & entrust out right control to the the very few. We can only hope & pray that the market can work it out, to ultimately benefit the well being for all of humanity.

There have been some very good ideas in this area (fair wages) by industry leaders, economists, labor unions, even politicians. One of them is a “living wage” where the basic lowest income would be the minimum necessitates someone needs to live, such as food, shelter & utilities. It seems like a good place to start?

 

[StudentMI]

There have been some very good ideas in this area (fair wages) by industry leaders, economists, labor unions, even politicians. One of them is a “living wage” where the basic lowest income would be the minimum necessitates someone needs to live, such as food, shelter & utilities. It seems like a good place to start?

I’ve seen proposals for one as well. The problem I see however is that as soon as you institute a law like that you can bet the price of those minimum necessities will go up.

 

[EssentialBeing]

The problem I see however is that as soon as you institute a law like that you can bet the price of those minimum necessities will go up.

Again I am laughing out loud, because you are so right. Inflationary pressure is part of the parcel & has always existed, add to that the “living wage” & it seems to get out of control. On the other hand it will stabilize over time once the realization sets in, that excess should not be the main mode of production.

I agree that the prices, market sets should reflect the cost of living for their workers. If I own a coffee shop & employ 5 workers for 30+ hours per week each then I must pay them enough to have shelter & food. In this case my coffees would cost $15 each & I will sell less, but at the end of the day I provided shelter & food for my family & my 5 employees & their families.

There will be less coffee shops but if that means improving humanity then I don’t think there is anything wrong, as long as a level playing field is provided, for all businesses to do the same. A re-balancing would be the effect, food processes will surge but that could only mean less choice, not so much less food.

 

[StudentMI]

The problem is that jobs will be more scarce as businesses raise prices and the living wage subsequently goes up. In addition you’ll have the problem of people having little incentive to work.

In the end I don’t see a way around it. I believe the market is a principle, a sort of goal that can never be reached. There will always be state involvement but there are ways of mitigating the damage done.

Plus when big business receives so much government aid I can’t begrudge the citizenry help.

 

[EssentialBeing]

Fair paying jobs are already scarce, & will only get worse over time, as we are learning about the impacts of pestilence, add to this the advent of AI & robotics with production rapidly replacing human labor with machines. Yes you said it, there is no end to rising prices & there doesn’t seem to be a way around. This only highlights the inefficiencies of our current capitalistic system & modes of production.

I believe the market is a principle, a sort of goal that can never be reached. There will always be state involvement but there are ways of mitigating the damage done. Plus when big business receives so much government aid I can’t begrudge the citizenry help.

Totally agree that it is a principal with goals that are illusive to many. As for state involvement the only other option is to step aside, where governments get out of the way of capitalism. I am not necessarily in favor of less government as Capitalism doesn’t exist where no profit is to be made. Which is why we need centralized governments to provide in those areas where Capitalism fears to tread.

 

[Anrakyr]

The problem is that jobs will be more scarce as businesses raise prices and the living wage subsequently goes up. In addition you’ll have the problem of people having little incentive to work.

That’s been disproven so many times but I still hear it everywhere.

Work gives us a sense of accomplishment. it allows us to meet people make friends and perhaps you can fall in love. You find purpose in work preferably doing something you enjoy. To make the blanket statement that people won’t work is to assume that people don’t want purpose.

I’ll grant you that people can be on a gradient and some people are more ambitious than others but people who are disabled volunteer in food banks because it’s the only job they can get, just to do something.