What Changes Would You Make To The NO Mass ?

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I would change the rulings on the lay ministers, lay readers, altar girls, facing of the priest to the people, the prayers (Eucharistic and Consecration), and the modernistic vestments of the priests. I would restore the order of the subdiaconate and the minor orders, and Gregorian chant. No more church announcements during the celebration of Mass, no more non-Biblical and non-Catholic homilies, no more liturgical dances if any, no more immodest clothings, no more folk songs, and most of all no more of communion in the hand, hands on the aisle during the Our Father, and shaking of hands during the peace offering.

Oh! Does it look like the Tridentine Mass?

Pax
 
Magnum_V8 said:
Mat,

You got me thinking. When the priest receives the species of bread, afterwards he rubs his fingers together over the chalice so that even the smallest particle is not lost. What are those that receive in the hand supposed to do?
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Excellant observation.

In fact, our pastor is having all the carpet in front of the sanctuary removed and buried … to be replaced with hardwood, well sealed, and more conducive to any accidental spillage or dropping of pieces of the Body of Christ.

.
 
I think what you all are missing is the beauty that vernacular can be. It is the things that have gone along with the vernacular that is causing the problems, not the language itself.
Again, I refer you to the Order of the Mass I posted for Anglican-Use parishes. I hope this Mass Order is being concidered for part of the new NO translation.

I would add though that I think altar boys are the way to go, and Communion should be done kneeling, at the altar rail. Instituted persons doing the readings, etc.
 
Make Gregorian Chant mandatory.
Bring back public Vespers and Matins.
Get rid of all eucharistic ministers
Get rid of all altar girls
Burn all modern day RC music books
Refurbish all churches, interior and exterior. To meet TLM and Anglican Use standards.
Priest MUST face East. No exceptions!!
Make the RSV CE the only translation for Liturgical use. With the exception of the TLM, where the Douay-Rheims can be used.
Get rid of all inclusive translations of the Bible for Bible Study and Liturgical use.
Tell the parishiners to stop acting like protestants, by holding hands and shouting responses.
Bring the altar rails back
Get priests to stop talking about current events at homilies and stick to traditional teaching.
Bring the prayer to St Michael and prayers to Mary at the end of the Mass.
Make the NO mass restrictive. So parishes will all be on the same page. Like the TLM .
 
Before even mentioning any changes to the Mass, I need a free-Latin-class training for life for me. I can’t identify any changes needed if I don’t know what is going on during the Mass. 😃
 
MrS said:
Show me a N O Mass that is done correctly, as intended, without all the inovations…

and

I probably would make no changes.
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I agree. I think that if the NO is done the way it’s supposed to be done, it can be great. I have seen faithful liturgically-minded priests do this! (Although it unfortunatly seems to be a rarity).

Actually, I probably would move the sign of peace to just before the Offertory. It only makes sense as Scripture tells us to make peace with our brothers *before *bringing our gifts to the altar. That is the whole point of the sign of peace. Of course, it’s not up to me, though!

And the new English translation in the works is needed, too, I think. I have seen excerpts of some of the prayers and they are SO much more beautiful!

Okay, so I guess there are a few changes I would make 😉
Originally Posted by Camp Pueblano
It would be great if the tabernacle could be front and center but I had a respected priest advise me once when I made that same pronouncement that the tabernacle is not front and center in St Peter’s Basilica. I know that in many of our diocesan cathedrals the tabernacle is in a side chapel off of the main sanctuary displayed very reverently.
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Basilicas and Cathedrals are different than your average parish. St. Peter’s Basilica (as well as many cathedrals) are very large and can attract many tourists. My understanding is that this is the reason that the Tabernacle is often found in a side chapel in these places. This is not the case in most parish churches. IM(H)O, there is no good reason NOT to have the Tabernacle front and center in the average parish.
 
bkovacs said:
Get priests to stop talking about current events at homilies and stick to traditional teaching.
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However, talking about Current Events can lead to Traditional Teachings.
The Church stance on abortion, cohabitation, human rights etc… can be discussed in the context of events in the news.
Think about it. When you were in school, wasn’t it a lot easier to understand something when it was actively taught within the context of things going on in the world?
 
water said:
Before even mentioning any changes to the Mass, I need a free-Latin-class training for life for me. I can’t identify any changes needed if I don’t know what is going on during the Mass. 😃
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I started attending the TLM only recently. The Missals are in Latin on the Left and English on the right. No Latin instruction is required, trust me, I am awful at learning languages and had no clue about Latin. First after reading in the Missal how to follow Mass, I attended the TLM shortly after, and I have never been back. The beauty and perfection of the TLM has not left me wanting of the Pauline Rite (new mass or Novus Ordo Service). The Traditional missal instructs you throughout the Mass.

Many English words have roots in Latin. Believe me you will see many similarities, some that are quite obvious!

It was actually quite easy,even without any knowledge of Latin. After 4 Masses, it was clear and after 7 masses it became almost second nature. Do not be put off or afraid of the perfect TLM since may modernists try to lead the laity, astray and away from the TLM, by pounding the incorrect notion of having to learn Latin, in order to follow the TLM. This is modernist propaganda that I realized after learning the Mass in less than 8 masses.

I have acquired TLM childrens’ missals as gifts for children. They took a few more masses, but are catching on quite quickly. And, BTW, they are five and seven!😉

Hope this helps you to understand you do not require to learn the ecclesiastical Latin outright to understand the prayers in the Missal. Do not be subject to modernist propaganda and their errs.

GOD Bless 🙂
 
Certainly there are many details in which I wish the NO would more closely or even exactly follow the TLM, but I think the main work that needs to be done to fix the NO (and that could be done very easily) is to simply remove all the manifold options. No more “in these or similar words,” no more option A, B1, B2, B3, C1, etc. ad infinitum. A great weakness of the NO is how it has served as a locus of creativity, and removing all these options would greatly remedy that problem.
 
Scrap all Eucharistic prayers except the Roman Canon.

When the holy pope St Gregory added one sentence to the Canon the people of Rome rioted and wanted the pope dead. So there is no wonder many people were upset with the NOM.
 
HenryV said:
Scrap all Eucharistic prayers except the Roman Canon.

When the holy pope St Gregory added one sentence to the Canon the people of Rome rioted and wanted the pope dead. So there is no wonder many people were upset with the NOM.
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And who was right the people of Rome or St. Gregory?

Eucharistic prayer 2 and 1 are just fine by me. The others can go.

We need to remember that for any of this to work we need to continue to pray for good young priests. Sadly, many of our pastors today and over the last 40 years were not well formed in the seminary and, as a result, they don’t seem to have a problem ignoring rubrics and doing whatever they want. Unfortunately, until we have a majority of priests who will “say the black and do the red” tightening restrictions and reducing options won’t have much of an effect.

A well said (or preferably sung) ordinary Mass is very beautiful, it is only when it is said haphazardly, accompanied by innappropriate music and liturgical abuses that it becomes ugly.
 
Interesting thread but why is it here? It seems strange that on the forum for all things traditional that we always end up talking about the OF.
 
bear06 said:
Interesting thread but why is it here? It seems strange that on the forum for all things traditional that we always end up talking about the OF.
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Apparently, “traditional” to some people means that in addition to extolling the virtues of the EF one must also disparage the OF. It’s kind of like a petulant 8 year old with a brand new bike. He can’t just be happy with his bike, he has to go around telling everyone else “My bike is better than your’s, nah nah nah!”

I’m not really sure how this is in keeping with Pope Benedict XVI when he says:
“There is no contradiction between the two editions of the Roman Missal. In the history of the liturgy
there is growth and progress, but no rupture. What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and
great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful. It
behooves all of us to preserve the riches which have developed in the Church’s faith and prayer, and to
give them their proper place.”
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I was just telling my personal opinion, you are entitled to yours.
The truth is what matters and the truth is, the pope is right.
 
I thank GOD for the N.O. I would never have converted without it! I don’t think that anything should be changed. It is perfect by my humble opinion.

**Thank you Father for the oportunity to hear you message in the language that you blessed me to understand.

Thank you Father for the guidance of our Pope.

Thank you Father for all you have given us through your Church**.
 
I actually wouldn’t change too much:
  1. Get rid of the responsorial psalm. Singing it like that destroys the poetry of the psalm, and makes it sound more like a performance. Just chant the psalm all the way through. Same with the Gloria.
  2. Move the Sign of Peace to another part of the Mass. Where it is now is distracting.
  3. More chanting during Mass. The Mass IS supposed to be sung after all.
That’s really it.
 
I agree that if the NO mass is done correctly it is a beautiful mass. However, I would say most of the NO masses I have attended do not fit that category. I attend a TLM last weekend, and it will be a couple months before I go back, and there were a few things I saw there that I wish I saw at the NO masses.
  1. A priest who isn’t afraid to bring up unpopular or uncomfortable topics.
  2. A well catechized (spelling?) community.
  3. REVERENCE-this is a big one for me as I think most of the problems people see at NO masses come not from the mass but from people (including some priests) absolute lack of reverence.
Historybrat
 
historybrat said:
  1. REVERENCE-this is a big one for me as I think most of the problems people see at NO masses come not from the mass but from people (including some priests) absolute lack of reverence.
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The more people who understand this, the more likely they will agree with Benedict XVI, follow his lead, and return…

not to the dark ages (that really has been the last 40 years of wandering in the desert of ambiguity)

but the to age of rich tradition, and the “monument” in the Church as Fr. Ripperger would say.

.
 
I like Pope Benedict’s leadership and the comments he made about the Tridentine Mass. I pray he lives long enough to carry out changes and I pray our bishops will follow along.

Solemnity is missing from our Mass. We should be atoning for our sins as we remember the sacrifice Jesus made for us to save us from death. We should be on our knees begging for mercy for our sins and crying because of the love that God has for us.

We should conduct ourself with respect for the Lord including in how we dress but we must also allow that there will be those who are new to the Church or the poor who do not have the money for better clothing. Our Church welcomes everyone.

It is not just a community meal that the Mass remembers but the sacrifice made by Jesus Christ who is an extraordinarily loving God. Our limited human words can not accurately describe his divine love for us.

He owes us nothing and yet becomes one of us to lead us by example and save us from our sins. He willingly suffers torture, bloodshed, and beatings while the whole time he asks our Father in Heaven to show mercy on those who inflict such suffering upon him.

The Tridentine Mass captures the essense of what Jesus did for us when he suffered and died on the cross for our sins and conquered death by his resurrection. The NO Mass fails in this regard and should be abolished.

It would be far better to have a specific carefully analyzed translation of the Tridentine Mass in English with no room for Priests to change any of the rubrics than to have the NO Mass as it stands today. The words in the Tridentine Mass expressed in English are so much more meaningful than those of the NO Mass.

The language debate can be worked out. Contemporary music and guitars should forever be banished from the Catholic Church.
 
georgewithfaith said:
I like Pope Benedict’s leadership and the comments he made about the Tridentine Mass. I pray he lives long enough to carry out changes and I pray our bishops will follow along.

Solemnity is missing from our Mass. We should be atoning for our sins as we remember the sacrifice Jesus made for us to save us from death. We should be on our knees begging for mercy for our sins and crying because of the love that God has for us.

We should conduct ourself with respect for the Lord including in how we dress but we must also allow that there will be those who are new to the Church or the poor who do not have the money for better clothing. Our Church welcomes everyone.

It is not just a community meal that the Mass remembers but the sacrifice made by Jesus Christ who is an extraordinarily loving God. Our limited human words can not accurately describe his divine love for us.

He owes us nothing and yet becomes one of us to lead us by example and save us from our sins. He willingly suffers torture, bloodshed, and beatings while the whole time he asks our Father in Heaven to show mercy on those who inflict such suffering upon him.

The Tridentine Mass captures the essense of what Jesus did for us when he suffered and died on the cross for our sins and conquered death by his resurrection. The NO Mass fails in this regard and should be abolished.

It would be far better to have a specific carefully analyzed translation of the Tridentine Mass in English with no room for Priests to change any of the rubrics than to have the NO Mass as it stands today. The words in the Tridentine Mass expressed in English are so much more meaningful than those of the NO Mass.

The language debate can be worked out. Contemporary music and guitars should forever be banished from the Catholic Church.
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I like to see applause banned as well. Mass is not a theatrical performance. No matter what anouncements take place the congregation should quietly listen.
 
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