What Christian unity means to you? Please read carefully.

[jmcrae]

ps; The Arians? they cant be connected to the modern day version??

Sorry, I don’t understand the question. The Arians died out - they no longer exist. The Filioque was added in order to underscore the divinity of Jesus Christ, but I think the Arians were already gone by the time they did that, so I’m not quite sure what you’re asking.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Consider the following facts, the dialogue between Orthodox and Catholics in Ravenna on the Papal Primacy seem to disprove your case. The Joint-Catholic Orthodox Commission agree that the Papal Primacy had very important role it its authority. As to the limits of that primacy is still open for discussion.

Manny, i dont get it- where is the compromise there? the beef between the east & west is the issue of supremacy, not primacy.

I believe once Christians become one Church as it was prior to the Schism or the Reformation. Christians will be persecuted by the Anti-Christ and will probably cost the lives of millions of Christian, and probably the death of the Pope.

any ideas on where that anti-christ is coming from? from atheists? from the muslims world? from your own brethren?

 

[grandfather]

any ideas on where that anti-christ is coming from? from atheists? from the muslims world? from your own brethren?

From hell!

 

[po18guy]

Greetings and peace be with you Manny,

How can we love Christians of other denominations as we love ourselves?

Unity depends on starting with the greatest commandments, all the laws and prophets of God hang on these two commandments. Love one another as I have loved you, by this all men will know that you are my disciples.

If we try and hang unity on the authority of the Pope, then we will fail simply because we have not put at the top that which Jesus said is greatest.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

Eric, every oganisation must have a leader. Love him or hate him, the Pope is the one who attempts to keep Christ’s Church together - as witnessed to here. Christ chose a sinful man, Simon bar Jonah, to lead tHis church, fully knowing his faults. And so it is with each successor. There is no Protestant leader, with predictable results. Maybe it would be wise for Protestants to seek a leader so that it would lessen the task of the healing process.

Christ’s peace.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Manny, i dont get it- where is the compromise there? the beef between the east & west is the issue of supremacy, not primacy.

It is the authority of papal primacy as the Joint-Orthodox and Catholic Commission stated. These are on going talks which will lead to an eventually re-unification of East and West.

any ideas on where that anti-christ is coming from?

from your own brethren?

We don’t know. Though there are some scholars who believe the Anti-Christ will deny that Jesus is God, he would not be a Christian, who lead many to fall away. He will perform miracles that will deceived many.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Greetings and peace be with you Manny,

How can we love Christians of other denominations as we love ourselves?

Unity depends on starting with the greatest commandments, all the laws and prophets of God hang on these two commandments. Love one another as I have loved you, by this all men will know that you are my disciples.

If we try and hang unity on the authority of the Pope, then we will fail simply because we have not put at the top that which Jesus said is greatest.

The Pope is the only one who is bring dialogue with Christians who are not in communion with us. The dialogue of understanding, reconciliation, and others.

He is merely answer the call that Jesus prayed for us to be “one just as the Father and I” as Jesus said is “ONE.”

To those Christians who do not think Christian unity is necessary. Consider the following questions:

1.Do you want to deny what Jesus prayed to the Father for?

2. Do you desire that Christians be separated? If yes, answer the question # 3.

3. Under whose’ authority grant you the right that Christians should be separated?

4. Would you be going against God’s will when the Church does unit?

My remarks:

The Church, whom Jesus Christ established in the beginning was One. This Church is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. It was One Church at the time of the Apostles. Since then it has become divided by Schism and the Protestant Reformation. This is result of the sins of Christians.

We look at our history and we the mistakes we made. The Popes establishing during Pope Paul VI made the move for reconciliation with the Eastern Church of Eastern Orthodoxy and the Popes following him.

The Pope only** want unity in Christianity ** because Jesus prayed to God th Father for it. What is so wrong with that? Do you think this Christian unity will bring about a supposed “Global Community” as mentioned in the Left Behind Series? I don’t think so.

I think Christians who don’t want Christian unity only have a misunderstanding on what the Papacy is all about. The Pope is only a servant of the servants of God. He live only to servant us, and more importantly, he desires that we seek God in everything that we do.

I do believe the Schism and the Reformation was wrong. The Catholic Church’s Papal legate was wrong to execommunicate the Patriarch of Constantinople. The Patriarch in turn was wrong to execommunicate them. Martin Luther had no right to break and form his own church, John Calvin was wrong, Zwingli was wrong, and Henry VIII was also wrong. In general everyone was wrong to separate. We as Christians have no right under the earth to separate, or should I say, break the Body of Christ into pieces with different set of beliefs.

I know I put out a lot, but I need to point this out clearly. It is time for reconciliation and dialogue for all Christians, Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestants to reconcil and continue dialogue in the hope of unification.

It is time for us Christians to bring those fragmented Christian bodies into the One Body of Jesus Christ, which is the Church. I know I sound to preachy, but this is the truth. Breaking Christ’s body brings sorrow to Jesus Christ, especially divisions in the Church.

 

[paarsurrey]

Unity requires compromise and that is something that the RCC is barely capable of. So unity will forever be a dream. Diversity rules! Its what life is all about.

Hi

We want unity on truth and that does not require any false compromises I think, simple peaceful and equitable dialogue between different denomination should bring about the result.

Thanks

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Sorry, I don’t understand the question. The Arians died out - they no longer exist. The Filioque was added in order to underscore the divinity of Jesus Christ, but I think the Arians were already gone by the time they did that, so I’m not quite sure what you’re asking.

The fellows who like the colour white.

 

[paarsurrey]

It wouldn’t delay his second coming. His Second Coming could in fact happen before unification. Christ had informed his followers, that we should prepare ourselves and persevere to the end. We do not know the hour of his Second Coming.

Hi

So, now you believe that this unity would not take place before the Second Coming of Jesus ( as per the Catholics) but it will happen after when he is come.

Yet you have mentioned that “we should prepare ourselves and persevere to the end” . so, isn’t gearing up for Unity, preparation for his coming? Would it be against the preparation or Jesus would dislike if Unity is done before his coming?

Ending denominations, uniting on truth is preserving the faith and solidifying in my opinion. It is not against it.

I think it would be a good thing to make all out efforts for unity at all levels , big and small, high or low.

Your thoughts, anybody…

Thanks

 

[po18guy]

The fellows who like the colour white.

Kitty, Arius was the main proponent of the **Arian **movement, which denied the Divinity of Christ. Richard Butler (r.i.p.), the main proponent of the Aryan movement, was the racist.

 

[Atemi]

I know all Christians whether, Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant want Christianity unity.

Agreed.

While there is no doubt in the future that Jesus desire us to be One Church just as he prayed for, I believe unity will begin with the re-unification of the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Church.

Which church do you think will be the first one to admit that they are not the “one, true church” of Christ and that they have been teaching false doctrine to their people for the last 1000 years?

So the question remains, how does the Vatican with the Pope’s leadership approach unity concerning Protestants?

The Catholic definition of Christian “unity” is that we all become Roman Catholics and obey the Roman Catholic pope.

Of course, we cannot find any such definitions of such unity in the Scriptures. As long as it is not placed in those words so everyone can thoroughly understand, there will continue to be further confusion with this issue.

…

 

[po18guy]

Which church do you think will be the first one to admit that they are not the “one, true church” of Christ and that they have been teaching false doctrine to their people for the last 1000 years?

Can you ever get past the idea of falseness? The differences are over the role of the Pope, and over the Spirit proceeding from the Son.

The Catholic definition of Christian “unity” is that we all become Roman Catholics and obey the Roman Catholic pope.

That is Christ’s definition. We cannot help it if you are disobedient.

Of course, we cannot find any such definitions of such unity in the Scriptures.

You must be kidding?!? You can twist scripture to your own destruction, but it does not change the truth.

2 Peter 3:16 (New International Version)
“He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction”.

So, you reject Christ, if it means becoming Catholic to have him?

 

[pete_29]

Hi

I am happy at least there is a sincere, if I have depicted it correctly, move for Unity of Christendum. It is good if the Catholics first Unite with the Eastern Orthodox and both combined unite with the Protestants.

I pray for your sucess as 32000 plus denomination create a lot of confusion, no othe religion has so many denomination to my knowledge.

Thanks

WOW!!! What a silly post. I pray for your success so that you may fail. Quite illogical.

 

[pete_29]

WOW!!! What a silly post. I pray for your success so that you may fail. Quite illogical.

OOOOPS! I think I may have misunderstood your post. SORRY

 

[Atemi]

**Which church do you think will be the first one to admit that they are not the “one, true church” of Christ and that they have been teaching false doctrine to their people for the last 1000 years? **

Can you ever get past the idea of falseness? The differences are over the role of the Pope, and over the Spirit proceeding from the Son.

So teaching that the RC pope is not the head of the visible church or ever infallible is not false doctrine?

The Orthodox teach that they alone are the one, true church and they alone have infallible teaching authority over the entire church.

The Roman Catholic Church says the same about themselves.

One of them is false or both of them are false.

If you cannot see that, I am sorry.

**The Catholic definition of Christian “unity” is that we all become Roman Catholics and obey the Roman Catholic pope. **

That is Christ’s definition. We cannot help it if you are disobedient.

Thank you for taking the opportunity to be offensive, but Christ says no such thing in any of the Scriptures I have read.

Of course, you cannot supply any such references, but I know you gotta talk like you can.

Now if only more Catholics were as honest as yourself and got that message out that that is what they really mean when they talk about Christian “unity” with others.

**Of course, we cannot find any such definitions of such unity in the Scriptures. **

You must be kidding?!?

I notice you come empty handed.

No, I am not kidding. It ain’t there.

So, you reject Christ, if it means becoming Catholic to have him?

I embrace Christ as it means leaving Catholicism to have Him.

…

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Greetings and peace be with you all,

All the laws and the prophets of God hang on the greatest commandments, therefore I believe Christian unity should hang on the greatest commandments. The greatest commandments should be more visible than any other doctrine or scripture, or authority given to the Pope.

Yet the way unity is talked about on this forum seems to bring about conflict rather than peace; simply because the greatest commandments seem secondary and invisible.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

 

[po18guy]

My apologies for replying. Forgive me.

 

[paarsurrey]

It is good if the Catholics first Unite with the Eastern Orthodox and both combined unite with the Protestants.

I pray for your sucess as 32000 plus denomination create a lot of confusion, no othe religion has so many denomination to my knowledge.

WOW!!! What a silly post. I pray for your success so that you may fail. Quite illogical.

Hi

I wrote in good faith “It is good if the Catholics first Unite with the Eastern Orthodox and both combined unite with the Protestants.”

I won’t mind if the Orthodox agree to Unite with the Catholics and then both Unite with the Protestants. Any permutation/combination may work or get started, I won’t mind. That has to come within the Christians’ dialogue not from the outside.

I think you understand it now.

Thanks

 

[Isa_Almisry]

The Nicene Creed was written in 325 AD. (We got the Bible in 405 AD. So, this was while the only thing anybody had to go on was the Oral Tradition.)

The Nicene Creed is the first part of the first of two documents produced by the Council of Nicea. The Council of Nicea consisted of a group of Catholic Bishops in communion with Rome who had some concerns about two different break-away groups who were not in communion with Rome anymore - the Arians, who denied the divinity of Christ, and the Cathari - a group of rebel priests who were giving out Holy Communion to people who were divorced and remarried (or worse, married twice without any divorce at all) and to lapsi - people who denied Christ and quit going to Church out of fear of what others might think of them.

It is very clear from the rest of the document that, when they used the word “catholic,” they intended to mean people who are in full communion with Rome - they were deliberately excluding anyone who did not consider himself to be under the authority of the Church on earth, as becomes clear when you read the rest of the document, because they declare such people to be “anathema” - that is, not to be members of the Catholic Church.

The Council did NOT define Catholic by those who were in full communion with Rome, although at the time Rome was in full communion with the Catholic Church, as it confessed the Nicene Creed. Rome was not the only patriarchate in the diptychs. And the edict that made the Catholic Church the state creed specifically menitons Pope Damasus of Rome AND Pope Peter II of Alexandria, their Creed (i.e. Nicene), and their followers.

There is no mention of any Vatican authority. Indeed, Pope Sylvester was mostly a footnote to Nicea.

The Cathari had nothing to do with communing remarried. I think some present day Latin boasts have slipped in here.

 

[grandfather]

Agreed.

Which church do you think will be the first one to admit that they are not the “one, true church” of Christ and that they have been teaching false doctrine to their people for the last 1000 years?

The Catholic definition of Christian “unity” is that we all become Roman Catholics and obey the Roman Catholic pope.

Of course, we cannot find any such definitions of such unity in the Scriptures. As long as it is not placed in those words so everyone can thoroughly understand, there will continue to be further confusion with this issue.
…

I think there are quite a few Christians who do not desire unity. They never even think about it. They think denominationalism is perfectl acceptable. It is all they have ever known and think nothing is wrong with it. The darkness is great.

There are a many churches that recognize their beliefs need correcting and ammand them to try to fix them. When this happens there is normally a split. Some go one way and others another. Let’s say for example a novel idea arises that infants should not be baptized. That makes sense to many people so they form a new denomination. What this asserts is that what they believed yesterday, or their parents and grandparents believed was false. It is an admission that their doctrines were false in the past. They might insist the error is now corrected, but there was an error. If they were in error at one time they might be in error again on any doctrine in particular. How can this be if they are the true Church and Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to lead His Church into all truth. This promise is for all time. But different bodies with contradicting doctrines all claim to know the truth from their Bible. That method obviously has not led them to truth, or they would agree.

Scripture teaches there is one Church. There can not be many churches that believe different contradicting things and all be led by the Holy Spirit, or else the Holy Spirit is deceiving some. Logic says there is one Church whose doctrines are all correct or there are none. If Jesus promises are true there is one somewhere that is His, the one He leads into truth. Many Churches do not believe all of their doctrines are true. I met a Baptist minister who said it is arrogant to think all of your doctrines are true. Everyone must have some mistakes. I asked him which of his doctrines are false. He thought I was crazy. If he knew he would no longer believe them. I said if you do not know which are false you can not know which are true. If the Holy Spirit is leading Christ’s Church into all truth as promised then that Church can not change its doctrines in order to make corrections it perceives as necessary. “The” Church can not make errors in matters of doctrine, or dogma. There can be no errors to correct. Also any new group that comes along and denies something the Church has taught as true doctrine must be wrong, or the Holy Spirit has misled the Church in the past. Again this would prove Christ’s promise as false.

If there is one truth there can only be one true Church. The true Church must hold consistency in what it believes, never contradicting what it believed in the past. Understanding of matters of faith can grow, but the past can not be wrong if Christ’s promises are true. Look at the natural sciences. If some scientific theory is discovered that proves a past theory false the past is rejected. Both the new and old can not be true. Our theology is built on Jesus teaching and promises. He promises in scripture that His Church will not err doctrinally, ever. Before John the Apostle was dead there were false teachings. Paul contended with them also. There were people disputing the teachings of apostles then and there are now.