This is a point that I had overlooked; Israel was sorrounded by the various nations which, as it happens today, promote and push their “values;” Yahweh God sought to create a People onto Himself (I’ve just remember the strict demands on the tribe of Levi… which further exemplifies the building of a nation), a nation that would worship and live according to His Design.Remember the Law was not only a moral code, but God’s tool for building a nation.
And why did Jesus offer Himself as a sacrifice if not to pay the penalty for our sins, namely God’s wrath?That is not correct. Jesus is God and he offered himself as a sacrifice. How could the wrath of God be poured on Jesus and how could he be abandoned by God when he is God.
He wasn’t asking why he had been abandoned. He was quoting Psalm 22.And why did Jesus offer Himself as a sacrifice if not to pay the penalty for our sins, namely God’s wrath?
To whom did Jesus offer Himself if not the Father?
If He was not abandoned then why did cry out "Why have you forsaken me?"
Played together when they were boys. Many of the ancient artists tended to show them together. This would seemd logical as they were cousins and the same age. But as I fall asleep I feel the number of games limited. Hide and seek would be out, as Our Lord would always know where St. John was. I suppose ball games…Do you have a meditation to share? I find the Sacred Infancy the most interest facet of Our Lord’s life.Hi, James Miller!
Do you mean what games they played as boys or what games they played together?
Maran atha!
Angel
This is a bit off topic but,And why did Jesus offer Himself as a sacrifice if not to pay the penalty for our sins, namely God’s wrath?
Thank you for sharing this article! It explains a lot. God bless!Here’s a short Catholic article about penal substitution.
Well, I don’t think the idea of substitutionary atonement is Arian but rather perfectly consistent with the idea of the scapegoat carrying the sins of the people on Yom Kippur. Also the sacrifice of the sinless lamb on Yom Kippur and the pouring of its blood on the Mercy Seat was to satisfy the anger of God with sin. So an understanding of Christ as the scapegoat and the spotless lamb is not Arian but Biblical.Here’s a short Catholic article about penal substitution.
…the problem is that John did not know Jesus; John is the voice crying in the desert; he was separated since childhood from his parents to serve God in a community far removed from Nazareth (St. Luke 1:76-80) and only knew of Jesus; he attests to this (St. John 1:29-34) as he states that He Who sent him to Baptize revealed that when the Messiah would appear the Holy Spirit would descend on Him, in the form of a dove…Played together when they were boys. Many of the ancient artists tended to show them together. This would seemd logical as they were cousins and the same age. But as I fall asleep I feel the number of games limited. Hide and seek would be out, as Our Lord would always know where St. John was. I suppose ball games…Do you have a meditation to share? I find the Sacred Infancy the most interest facet of Our Lord’s life.
I fear I am taking us off the original subject. Goodness gracious if charity cannot be maintained on the original subject, it could not be on any verse of the New Testament.
And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground. *
When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. *
And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground. 9 But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. *
This is of course would be a picture of the Church in of it’self. Jesus lifting up Himself and the Church Triumphant.And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: Woman, where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee?
…Biblical text is, usually, quite malleable… hence the warning on personal interpretation…I don’t believe that this gesture by Jesus is meaningless just because there haven’t been any thoughts about it the Church has been willing to join it’self to. There is way too much going on and besides I can’t imagine Jesus doing anything insignificant especially during moments like this one. St John seems to purposely point out the bodily movements of Jesus while this was happening. Also Jesus wasn’t hap hazardly doodling when this came up. He deliberately began doing that at the onset of this confrontation.
I believe Jesus was acting as prophet when this happened. Just as the OT prophets propheciedt with their bodies the role of the nation or of God, Jesus recognized the pattern of salvation history in this event. The woman accused of adultery represents the Jews ( adultress) past,present and future who become the(spotless bride) Church. The accusers represent the Jews become all those who will accuse and persecute the Church in the future, especially of adultery.
The writing on the ground gesture was a sign of the Sacred texts .
from the DRB:
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Lowerings and liftings are often significant gestures. Jesus bowing down can mean Himself writing in the Apostles. It could point to the writing of the OT.
**
This can mean alot of things in this line of thinking. Since Jesus began writing when they began speaking it seems to me that they might have been attentive to what was being written. St John seems to attest to this by writing the phrase I underlined. Their hearts weren’t penetrated by seeing what Jesus was writing in the sand.
**
It was in hearing the Word that they were disarmed. Yet Jesus continued writing in the sand.
The parting of the eldest to the youngest could be viewed as a living archetype of time.
Note that He stoops or bows down to write and lifts Himself up to speak.
This is of course would be a picture of the Church in of it’self. Jesus lifting up Himself and the Church Triumphant.
Well, here’s what some of the Father’s say about the passage, quoted in the Catena Aurea:Not another thread about this.
Listen. Neither Scripture nor Tradition says what Jesus wrote in the sand. It has no significance so stop reading something into that. Nobody knows so no point in wasted speculation.
…did you noticed how the quoted Fathers have each offered a distinct interpretation?Well, here’s what some of the Father’s say about the passage, quoted in the Catena Aurea:
AUG. As if to signify that such persons were to be written in earth, not in heaven, where He told His disciples they should rejoice they were v written. Or His bowing His head (to write on the ground), is an expression of humility; the writing on the ground signifying that His law was written on the earth which bore fruit, not on the barren stone, as before.
ALCUIN. The ground denotes the human heart, which yields the fruit either of good or of bad actions: the finger jointed and flexible, discretion. He instructs us then, when we see any faults in our neighbors, not immediately and rashly to condemn them, but after searching our own hearts to begin with, to examine them attentively with the finger of discretion.
BEDE. His writing with His finger on the ground perhaps showed, that it was He who had written the law on stone.
…or as in the story of Susana, they could be lusting for her and hoped to have Jesus condemn her… they would be killing two birds with one stone, sort of speak…This may sound rude…but…the thought has ALWAYS occurred to me that the men present either had sex iwth her themselves, or had an affair with another woman…
:twocents:
Don’t forget to include the end of the verse in red. Jesus had just been identified as the source of “living water”Regarding what Jesus “…wrote with His finger on the ground.” (John 8:6) – a passage from the prophet Jeremiah comes to mind:
Jeremiah 17:13
"O LORD, the hope of Israel, all who forsake Thee shall be put to shame; those who turn away from Thee shall be written in the earth,… they have forsaken the source of living waters "
Nita
Adultery isn’t a solitary sin; perhaps Jesus wrote the name of the male adulterer.