What Did Jesus Write in the Sand?

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rinnie;4702342:
And it never happened. To spear-pierce a crucified was not a Roman policy and they would never do to Jesus only. That was invented by the Gospel writer to match Jesus with Zechariah 12:10 as an act of plagiarism. This is one reason why it never happened. The second reason is that neither the Centurion or any of his men would not do that piercing because they had recognized that Jesus was the son of God. A kind of conversion to Jesus’ Cause. (Mat. 27:54). The third reason is that Joseph of Arimathea must have paid good money to the Centurion just to let him take Jesus off the cross and take care of him. About the beating or scourging, it was a Roman policy to do it with everyone to be crucified in order to break down their will to react. (John 19:1)
Therefore, Jesus was not the only one. Josephus says that the Romans crucified thousands of Jews and all of them had to go through that scourging before the cross.
Ben: :confused:
You truly are…

…He was dead; the custom was to break their legs so that they would asphyxiate; inspite of the military prowes Romans were consumate diplomats… allowing the Jewish their little Sabbath ritual was a means to appeasement; they would remove from sight those being crucified… since everything about Jesus had to be done in accordance with Scriptures, He died so that not a single bone be broken (as with the Passover Lamb)… I hope you pay better attention when you cross busy streets!

May the Holy Spirit jump-start your heart!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Hi, LilyM!

…the problem with your suggestion is that: a) they made a mess interpreting the Sacred Writings by the time Jesus became Incarnate, and b) they reject the New Testament and Jesus.

Maran atha!

Angel
J, I wasn’t suggesting that the Jews actually ARE experts in the OT, rather that they are positioning themselves as such on the basis that Jews wrote it, without always extending to us poor goyim (Gentiles) the same courtesy in regards the NT.
 

Well Rinnie, the parable is not to question Jesus’ credibility but to enhance it. You folks are the ones who question his credibility by submitting him to this childish interpretations of the facts of his life.

Now, regarding Satan, do you see what I mean? You say a person
and his name is Satan. Is this a joke or you really believe that Satan is a person? Listen Rinnie, Satan is only a concept to illustrate the evil inclination in man. Satan as a person is a fabrication of Christianity to play with people’s fears.

I don’t want you to think that I am trying to make you doubt Jesus.
No, that’s not my purpose. I just want you to see Jesus as who he really was, and not how Paul made him to be.

So, “Jesus Christ was the Messiah?” How do you know it, by research or that others have told you? I believe that Israel, the Jewish People is the Messiah because the Prophet Isaiah has told me so. Would you like me to prove it to you?

Ben: 😉
You are running around in circles… if I were to insult you and your forefathers would you believe that I simply want you to understand the North American way of life… or if I were to say that Judaism is a false religion, full of stories and fairytales to appease or frighten children so the would go to bed without the chaos they create when they refuse to go to sleep, would you believe that I had your best interest at heart?

You come to us with your warped and limited understanding and you continue to dismiss everything as fake, yet you purport to have the truth even when you reject your own Sacred Writings… it would serve you better to employ some of your time in introspection rather than fixing what is not broken!

May Jesus’ Mercy find you!

Maran atha!

Angel
 

Yes Rinnie, correct. And the trial for adultery was so complicated that it would take sometimes even years to adjourn. So, it’s much more logical to take that case as a parable.

Ben: 🙂
Your logic is flawed; even today in the fairest nations of the world societies kill the innocent in their mothers’ womb and they claim that it is OK; clearly when Jesus called the masters of the Law, the Sadducees and Pharisees liars and hypocrites, He did not do so because they observed the Law to a fault–rather it was because they broke the Law and taught others to do the same!

May the Spirit of Yahweh God, the Holy Spirit bring you out of your darkness into the Light!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Okay Now no one has denied that this is a Parable. Actually is callled a parable. But here is something I would like you to answer me.

You said That according to Jewish law before someone could be stoned there was to be a trial. Now you claim that this COULD not have happened. Why Not. Becasue you said there had to have been a trial. I do not disagree with you on that. Here is where we differ. You said it could not have happened. Why NOT?

IT says they brought this women to Jesus and asked Jesus to test him to make a decision. Did Jesus make a call. No he did not. Why did he not. 2 reasons. First of all do you not think that JEsus knew according to the law he could not.

Second do you not think Jesus knew they were trying to trick him to make that call.

He never said the women was inocent or guilty. He said let the one among you who is guiltless throw the first stone.
Then Jesus said where are they, Has no one condemmed you, Neither do I. Go and sin no more.

Now why could this not: have happened to try to get him to break the law?

Because you are saying they could have never tried to trick Jesus. Again I disagree. Now you show me how this could not have possibly happened.

For the record I was taught Jesus never wrote anything in the sand, and was only doing it to save her embarrasment. BUt its your definition I have a problem with. Your turn;)
Hi, Rinnie!

…you are appealing to reason… I am afraid that reason has left the building waay waay back when… :sleep:

Maran atha!

Angel
 
I have used Logic to prove my point. You can’t see it because where faith begins Logic ends. And where there is no chance to apply Logic, knowledge is handicapped. And for lack
of knowledge people perish. That’s in Hosea 4:6.

Ben: 👍
…and zero times a trillion is still zero… so is flawed logic–still flaw!

May the God of the Amen bring you into His fold!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Ben, your debating has no worth in this sense as you are arguing a point that doesn’t exist. Read the Verses. They do not depict a situation as you are implying to begin with. Also, it is understandable why a person who still is of the Jewish belief would deny the authenticity of Christianity. To acknowledge Christianity would lead to conversion so you wouldn’t be as you are now. But keep in mind for all the expertise and understanding you pride yourself with there were many Jews who converted back then and throughout history and the numbers are growing. Unless you claim to be the most intelligent of all, perhaps there is more you need to research because you DO NOT know Christianity at all to try to refute it.
Sadly, Ben (and many others) suffer from select reasoning… they reject everything that contradicts them even when that contradiction comes from the Word of God!

You are correct in your statement about Jews rejection… but I would go a little further… I suggest to you that they are fully aware of this factor and they are also aware that by rejecting Christ they are rejecting Salvation–as Jesus said those who persecute you and put you even to death would think that they are serving God…

Maran atha!

Angel
 

Very good, so what’s taking so long for you to answer my questions? I am here to learn. The Truth is One. Either you have it and I don’t, or it could be the other way around: That I have it and you don’t. Let’s exchange our researches. Who knows you could persuade me of the way you think, or I could persuade you of the way I do.

In John 17:17 Jesus says that the Truth is the Word of God. And in Psalm 147:19,20 the Word of God was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth. Then, Isaiah says that for Gentiles to get instructions in the Word of God, the address is Zion, the Jewish People. (Isa. 2:2,3) What do you have to say about this?

Ben: :confused:
Ben, your antagonistic approach belies your pretense… but just incase let me start you with this:

Romans - Chapter 9

1 This is the truth and I am speaking in Christ, without pretence, as my conscience testifies for me in the Holy Spirit;
2 there is great sorrow and unremitting agony in my heart:
3 I could pray that I myself might be accursed and cut off from Christ, if this could benefit the brothers who are my own flesh and blood.
4 They are Israelites; it was they who were adopted as children, the glory was theirs and the covenants; to them were given the Law and the worship of God and the promises.
5 To them belong the fathers and out of them, so far as physical descent is concerned, came Christ who is above all, God, blessed for ever. Amen.
6 It is not that God’s promise has failed. Not all born Israelites belong to Israel,
7 and not all the descendants of Abraham count as his children, for Isaac is the one through whom your Name will be carried on.
8 That is, it is not by being children through physical descent that people become children of God; it is the children of the promise that are counted as the heirs.
9 The actual words of the promise were: I shall come back to you at this season, and Sarah will have a son.
10 Even more to the point is what was said to Rebecca when she was pregnant by our ancestor, Isaac,
11 before her children were born, so that neither had yet done anything either good or bad, but in order that it should be God’s choice which prevailed
12 -not human merit, but his call – she was told: the elder one will serve the younger.
13 Or as scripture says elsewhere: I loved Jacob but hated Esau.
14 What should we say, then? That God is unjust? Out of the question!
15 For speaking to Moses, he said: I am gracious to those to whom I am gracious and I take pity on those on whom I take pity.
16 So it is not a matter of what any person wants or what any person does, but only of God having mercy.
17 Scripture says to Pharaoh: I raised you up for this reason, to display my power in you and to have my name talked of throughout the world.
18 In other words, if God wants to show mercy on someone, he does so, and if he wants to harden someone’s heart, he does so.
19 Then you will ask me, ‘How then can he ever blame anyone, since no one can oppose his will?’
20 But you – who do you think you, a human being, are, to answer back to God? Something that was made, can it say to its maker: why did you make me this shape?
21 A potter surely has the right over his clay to make out of the same lump either a pot for special use or one for ordinary use.
22 But suppose that God, although all the time he wanted to reveal his retribution and demonstrate his power, has with great patience gone on putting up with those who are the instruments of his retribution and designed to be destroyed;
23 so that he may make known the glorious riches ready for the people who are the instruments of his faithful love and were long ago prepared for that glory.
24 We are that people, called by him not only out of the Jews but out of the gentiles too.
25 Just as he says in the book of Hosea: I shall tell those who were not my people, ‘You are my people,’ and I shall take pity on those on whom I had no pity.
26 And in the very place where they were told, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be told that they are ‘children of the living God’.
27 And about Israel, this is what Isaiah cried out: Though the people of Israel are like the sand of the sea, only a remnant will be saved;
28 for without hesitation or delay the Lord will execute his sentence on the earth.
29 As Isaiah foretold: Had the Lord Sabaoth not left us a few survivors, we should be like Sodom, we should be the same as Gomorrah.
30 What should we say, then? That the gentiles, although they were not looking for saving justice, found it, and this was the saving justice that comes of faith;
31 while Israel, looking for saving justice by law-keeping, did not succeed in fulfilling the Law.
32 And why? Because they were trying to find it in actions and not in faith, and so they stumbled over the stumbling-stone-
33 as it says in scripture: Now I am laying in Zion a stumbling-stone, a rock to trip people up; but he who relies on this will not be brought to disgrace.

Pay special attention to the highlighted text.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Is this thread still about Jesus writing in the sand? :o
…yeah… but with a twist… just goes to show you why we should not speculate about what is or is not found in the Holy Scriptures… not everyone who visits is truly seeking for the Truth!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
no problem, the quote thing gets messed up some times…👍
…it happend to me just a few posts away… what we must do is “Preview” and watch out for extra “quote” or other codes…

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Ben, your antagonistic approach belies your pretense… but just incase let me start you with this:

Romans - Chapter 9

1 This is the truth and I am speaking in Christ, without pretence, as my conscience testifies for me in the Holy Spirit;
2 there is great sorrow and unremitting agony in my heart:
3 I could pray that I myself might be accursed and cut off from Christ, if this could benefit the brothers who are my own flesh and blood.
4 They are Israelites; it was they who were adopted as children, the glory was theirs and the covenants; to them were given the Law and the worship of God and the promises.
5 To them belong the fathers and out of them, so far as physical descent is concerned, came Christ who is above all, God, blessed for ever. Amen.
6 It is not that God’s promise has failed. Not all born Israelites belong to Israel,
7 and not all the descendants of Abraham count as his children, for Isaac is the one through whom your Name will be carried on.
8 That is, it is not by being children through physical descent that people become children of God; it is the children of the promise that are counted as the heirs.
9 The actual words of the promise were: I shall come back to you at this season, and Sarah will have a son.
10 Even more to the point is what was said to Rebecca when she was pregnant by our ancestor, Isaac,
11 before her children were born, so that neither had yet done anything either good or bad, but in order that it should be God’s choice which prevailed
12 -not human merit, but his call – she was told: the elder one will serve the younger.
13 Or as scripture says elsewhere: I loved Jacob but hated Esau.
14 What should we say, then? That God is unjust? Out of the question!
15 For speaking to Moses, he said: I am gracious to those to whom I am gracious and I take pity on those on whom I take pity.
16 So it is not a matter of what any person wants or what any person does, but only of God having mercy.
17 Scripture says to Pharaoh: I raised you up for this reason, to display my power in you and to have my name talked of throughout the world.
18 In other words, if God wants to show mercy on someone, he does so, and if he wants to harden someone’s heart, he does so.
19 Then you will ask me, ‘How then can he ever blame anyone, since no one can oppose his will?’
20 But you – who do you think you, a human being, are, to answer back to God? Something that was made, can it say to its maker: why did you make me this shape?
21 A potter surely has the right over his clay to make out of the same lump either a pot for special use or one for ordinary use.
22 But suppose that God, although all the time he wanted to reveal his retribution and demonstrate his power, has with great patience gone on putting up with those who are the instruments of his retribution and designed to be destroyed;
23 so that he may make known the glorious riches ready for the people who are the instruments of his faithful love and were long ago prepared for that glory.
24 We are that people, called by him not only out of the Jews but out of the gentiles too.
25 Just as he says in the book of Hosea: I shall tell those who were not my people, ‘You are my people,’ and I shall take pity on those on whom I had no pity.
26 And in the very place where they were told, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be told that they are ‘children of the living God’.
27 And about Israel, this is what Isaiah cried out: Though the people of Israel are like the sand of the sea, only a remnant will be saved;
28 for without hesitation or delay the Lord will execute his sentence on the earth.
29 As Isaiah foretold: Had the Lord Sabaoth not left us a few survivors, we should be like Sodom, we should be the same as Gomorrah.
30 What should we say, then? That the gentiles, although they were not looking for saving justice, found it, and this was the saving justice that comes of faith;
31 while Israel, looking for saving justice by law-keeping, did not succeed in fulfilling the Law.
32 And why? Because they were trying to find it in actions and not in faith, and so they stumbled over the stumbling-stone-
33 as it says in scripture: Now I am laying in Zion a stumbling-stone, a rock to trip people up; but he who relies on this will not be brought to disgrace.

Pay special attention to the highlighted text.

Maran atha!

Angel

I read your long copy of Paul’s chapter nine to the Romans. Have you ever heard about Replacement Theology? That’s what the whole thing comes down to. In case you don’t know yet, Replacement Theology has been classified as an act of Antisemitism.

Ben: 😊
 
J, I wasn’t suggesting that the Jews actually ARE experts in the OT, rather that they are positioning themselves as such on the basis that Jews wrote it, without always extending to us poor goyim (Gentiles) the same courtesy in regards the NT.
Noted… but they are under Catch 22–if they do not keep us goyim out the Old Testament, Christians embrace the Messianic Prophecies and demonstrate that they point to Jesus Christ, the Son of God; yet, if they accept the New Testament, Christians demonstrate that Jesus is the Son of God and that it is He Who has Commanded them to come into the fold of the Church: it’s a lose-lose situation for them…

Maran atha!

Angel
 

I read your long copy of Paul’s chapter nine to the Romans. Have you ever heard about Replacement Theology? That’s what the whole thing comes down to. In case you don’t know yet, Replacement Theology has been classified as an act of Antisemitism.

Ben: 😊
Problem is that this comes from Yahweh’s Determination not man’s… you may chose to throw labels out there; you may chose to see hate where there isn’t… it does not change a thing!

Yahweh has spoken and His Salvific Plan marches on… for there has been given only One Name by which all must be Saved: Yeshua!

In Christ’s Love,

Angel
 
Problem is that this comes from Yahweh’s Determination not man’s… you may chose to throw labels out there; you may chose to see hate where there isn’t… it does not change a thing!

Yahweh has spoken and His Salvific Plan marches on… for there has been given only One Name by which all must be Saved: Yeshua!

In Christ’s Love,

Angel

Prove the above to me in the Scriptures that Yeshua used to handle, and we are in business.

What you claim came from God, was spoken by a former Jew who had to break up with the faith of Jesus, which was Judaism. Paul was his name.

Ben: :rolleyes:
 

Prove the above to me in the Scriptures that Yeshua used to handle, and we are in business.

What you claim came from God, was spoken by a former Jew who had to break up with the faith of Jesus, which was Judaism. Paul was his name.

Ben: :rolleyes:
The problem we face is called an impass: you do not believe what I claim and I cannot accept your belief.

Your train of thought is limited by what you desire to gain/accomplish… you remove Christ as the active subject and you purport that it is all a mechanism of St. Paul’s design… sadly, we could go on in circles dismantling and tearing down each other’s religious belief… we would gain nothing…

Reread the Old Testament and allow the Sacred Writings to speak to you; ask Yahweh to enlighten you; ask Him for Faith, patience, understanding and Love… it is the only way that we may ever come together as Abraham’s children…

Consider this: the Old Testament’s prophecies cannot come to fruition but through the Messiah; several key prophecies are no longer possible lest we accept that the Christ has Come, Suffered, Died, Resurrected, and Ascended into Heaven.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
The problem we face is called an impass: you do not believe what I claim and I cannot accept your belief.

Your train of thought is limited by what you desire to gain/accomplish… you remove Christ as the active subject and you purport that it is all a mechanism of St. Paul’s design… sadly, we could go on in circles dismantling and tearing down each other’s religious belief… we would gain nothing…

Reread the Old Testament and allow the Sacred Writings to speak to you; ask Yahweh to enlighten you; ask Him for Faith, patience, understanding and Love… it is the only way that we may ever come together as Abraham’s children…

Consider this: the Old Testament’s prophecies cannot come to fruition but through the Messiah; several key prophecies are no longer possible lest we accept that the Christ has Come, Suffered, Died, Resurrected, and Ascended into Heaven.

Maran atha!

Angel

No, Jcrichton, the only problem is that you cannot prove anything you say in the Scriptures and hope I would
accept your word for it. I can’t. I have a mind of my own. It has to be written and proved scripture with scripture. Impasse! Hardly if you cannot prove what you claim.

The faith of Jesus was Judaism. If you cannot acknowledge the Truth of Judaism, you are in other words denying the faith of Jesus. Jesus neer had anything to do with Christianity, which was
founded by Paul about 30 years after Jesus had been gone. I am sorry but I see no impasse here but your obstination to fight against the Truth.

Ben: 🤷
 

No, Jcrichton, the only problem is that you cannot prove anything you say in the Scriptures and hope I would
accept your word for it. I can’t. I have a mind of my own. It has to be written and proved scripture with scripture. Impasse! Hardly if you cannot prove what you claim.

The faith of Jesus was Judaism. If you cannot acknowledge the Truth of Judaism, you are in other words denying the faith of Jesus. Jesus neer had anything to do with Christianity, which was
founded by Paul about 30 years after Jesus had been gone. I am sorry but I see no impasse here but your obstination to fight against the Truth.

Ben: 🤷
I cannot give you what you are searching for… Faith is only a Gift given to us by God; you seek Him with human reason and intellect… as the young lady said, you are searching for a boat, that’s long set sail, at an airport… not gonna happen!

…as for your own mind, I’ve no interest in having you as my clone; you have God’s given right to think and act as you please; but know that we do not own ourselves… only when you come to understand this will you submit to the Mind of Christ!

May Jesus’ Light shine upon you and on your path!

FYI–St. Paul was not Christian during Pentecost, when Kephas and the Eleven were united to over 200 hundred disciples nor did he experience the Pentecost Blessing when the Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples and some 3000 Jews and Gentiles were united to the Church… it was only after his attempt to eradicate the Church of Christ that Saul was converted by Jesus; at this time he received the name Paul and began preaching the Gospel of Christ…

Maran atha!

Angel

PS: Please do not be offended, it is now 5:42 am so I must take leave; may God Bless you!
 
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