What do we do when there are too many people on the planet?

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Vonsalza said:
The lesser sin, right?
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At least means the prior sentence “going fishing when no fish are likely there” is not the ideal, because you normally fish when there are lots of them.

Not ideal doesn’t mean sinful.
 
Vonsalza said:
As I explained, “open to life” in the Catholic understanding clearly allows for the use of deliberate non-artificial means to frustrate conception.

This runs contrary to what most would consider “open to life” to mean. But as you stated, the Church will have to explain it to them.
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What is being taught cannot be expressed - articulated - in a 3 word phrase. The phrase collapses to merely a “label”, or a “handle”. It’s necessary to read more to discover to what it refers.

The other expression often used is “each act must be ordered to procreation”. That is more explanatory, but not perfectly so, for many will say (erroneously) those words cannot be satisfied (say) after menopause.
 
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anon65111186 said:
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Vonsalza:
The lesser sin, right?
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At least means the prior sentence “going fishing when no fish are likely there” is not the ideal, because you normally fish when there are lots of them.

Not ideal doesn’t mean sinful.
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For your sake, I hope so.

But as the Church has said that it should be temporary, I have my doubts!
 
Gents, it’s getting late where I am.

You win again!

Michael, if you see this - I’ll reply tomorrow.
 
Vonsalza said:
But as the Church has said that it should be temporary, I have my doubts!
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You keep bringing this up, but never cite anything or explain what you think it means.

If some circumstance makes pregnancy irresponsible or similar, then the period of avoiding may properly be indefinite.
 
Vonsalza said:
NFP IS contraception.
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You are using contraception equivocally here to not mean the method (condoms, the pill) but the result.

When your boss asks you to go to New York, and says go through Washington not through New Jersey, and you go through New Jersey anyways, are you being obedient to your boss?

Your boss had some reason you might not fathom yet for doing so. You not understanding that reason doesn’t give you the right to disobey him, does it?

You may think the destination is the same, so the routes are the same, but in reality they are two different journeys altogether and you even arrive at different sides of the same city.
 
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I find it hard to find a cogent argument against condom use beyond the fact of it being unnatural. It seems the argument is that it is unnatural to put a piece of plastic over ones penis.

Perhaps i’m wrong, and i certainly have nothing against NFP, but if one does want a child then surely you would just not use a condom.

One could argue against this saying that it intentionally closes the door to pregnancy. But isn’t that the intention of NFP? Sure, its still a possibility that you can still cause a pregnancy, but that is clearly not what somebody wants when they use NFP.

If i was to cut off my sex organs or intentionally make myself infertile, then it makes sense to say that i have sinned.

I just don’t get why condom use is seen as intrinsically evil. Forgive me for my ignorance.
 
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IWantGod said:
I just don’t get why condom use is seen as intrinsically evil. Forgive me for my ignorance.
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You can use a condom anytime, but you can’t use NFP anytime, because it goes with your wife’s natural rhythms.

Apart from that its about obedience. Just like in the army, you don’t follow orders only when it’s clear to you why. Though a poor analogy, when God teaches, and we don’t yet understand, we obey first and then ask questions in prayer.
 
anon65111186 said:
You can use a condom anytime, but you can’t use NFP anytime, because it goes with your wife’s natural rhythms.
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But that would just mean that we cannot have sex when we want to. Why does that make it the good thing compared to condom use?
anon65111186 said:
Apart from that its about obedience. Just like in the army, you don’t follow orders only when it’s clear to you why. Though a poor analogy, when God teaches, and we don’t yet understand, we obey first and then ask questions in prayer.
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I see what you mean, but i’m use to my faith making at least some sense.
 
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IWantGod said:
I see what you mean, but i’m use to my faith making at least some sense.
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How much sense does God taking a rib from Adam’s side make to you? I’ve always wanted a better explanation for that and other things, doesn’t make it unreasonable though. If I didn’t believe everything until it made sense, I’d be the worst kind of cafeteria Catholic.
IWantGod said:
But that would just mean that we cannot have sex when we want to. Why does that make it the good thing compared to condom use?
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It’s about what the Pope calls a contraceptive mentality, rather than oversimplify it just read and pray over Humanae Vitae, it is the foundational encyclical about regulating birth, and has the highest authority “infallibility”. Which means it can not err and is 100% true and to be believed and accepted.

Have notepad ready too, there are a lot of things you may want to note as you pray with it.
 
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Vonsalza said:
NFP IS contraception.
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NFP uses information to decide whether sexual intercourse is more or less likely to lead to pregnancy. It guides the decision to engage in the marital act.

Contraception is a measure intended to change or frustrate the natural outcome of the marital act.

They are different deeds (means), but may share a common goal. The thing is - that goal is not wrong.
 
anon65111186 said:
It’s about what the Pope calls a contraceptive mentality,
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The one thing i would say about contraception is that it does promote promiscuity and a lack of discipline. Or should i say the popularity of condoms is a result of the hedonistic mentality. In other-words it probably isn’t unreasonable to think that societies current approach to sexuality underscores a careless mentality about what it means to have sex, which is ironic since the main selling point of condom use is the prevention of STD’s.
 
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If you have 26.5 minutes to spare, this documentary shows innovation will help offset some of the problems. There are some drawbacks but ones that seem quite solvable for many places.

[W]e visit a tiny nation responsible for the second largest exports of farmed food. Its vegetable, fruit, and livestock farmers are pushing the limits of productivity – how do they get so much food out of so little land?
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The country is
the Netherlands
.
Also consider this, which will require another 26.5 minutes of your time:

Could these unpalatable little creatures hold the answer to some big questions – what to do about the huge amount of waste going into landfill, and how to meet the world’s growing demand for a sustainable supply of farmed fish, pigs and poultry?
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Since deliberately withholding sex with your wife because she’s likely to conceive still does not seem very “ordered per se to the procreation of human life”, it doesn’t help me very much.

But I’ve only been Catholic since the start of my 30s and I’m not quiiite 40. Perhaps that is time insufficient to fully understand the apparent mystery. Either way, I’m not interested in ruining the party for those who mutually affirm one another in “getting it”. Enjoy your community, fellows.
 
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I’ll take a stab, but I’m not sure I’ll convince you

NFP works with God’s design for the woman’s body.

Contraception works against the design of the body of whichever partner is using it.
 
we ask God for new inventions and ideas.

Our intellect, our creativity is a reflection of His intellect and creativity.

We don’t worry about it. We live virtuously and trustingly.
 
Overpopulation of the planet is a myth perpetuated by supporters of eugenics, euthanasia, and abortion.

The planet can easily support tens of billions of humans - we’re not in danger of overpopulation until at least 100,000,000,000 - which is centuries in the future.
 
IWantGod said:
What do we do when there is too many people on the planet?
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If there are more people (or lifeforms) in an environment than the environment can support some of those lives are going to cease to operate. Extreme famine can have an impact on fertility so the potential for new lives will also decrease. This doesn’t sound like a problem that would persist for very long. I don’t think any effort would be needed to bring things back into balance.
 
Vonsalza said:
NFP IS contraception.

You deliberately withhold when you think pregnancy is likely. Not by mere chance! But specifically for that reason!
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NFP is not chemical contraception but Natural… chemical causes changes in the woman’s biology that makes it unlikely that a fertilized egg…(baby) can find a place to live so it dies as it is flushed out of the mother’s body. Lots of people think it’s ok because the mother doesn’t even realize what she is doing and the baby doesn’t look like a baby yet… but it is!
 
We do’t need to do anything? Just watch the bodies pile up i guess?

Lol. Famine is turning out to be one of our best friends. lol.
 
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