What do we do when there are too many people on the planet?

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anon65111186 said:
They jive, they are consistent. You may be thinking abstinence is not open to life, that woukd be wrong.
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No no. I think deliberately avoiding sex with your wife because she’s more likely to conceive at that specific time is pretty “not open to life”.

But no need to belabor. I’ve agreed that my view here makes me the oddball.
 
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There’s that vague expression again! The end of “avoid a pregnancy” is not evil! Only certain means have been condemned.
 
Rau said:
There’s that vague expression again! The end of “avoid a pregnancy” is not evil! Only certain means have been condemned.
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I didn’t call it evil.

Just deliberately and pointedly “not open to life”.
 
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Rau said:
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Vonsalza:
Just deliberately and specifically “not open to life”.
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Because that’s precisely what you assert “open to life” means. 🤷‍♂️
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I’m not the one producing that language Rau!

See Tim!
 
I called EWTN live on a TV show. Not a problem , I guess. I phrased the question in terms of the expression in Genesis, about “fill the earth.”-- when will it be filled?

Scientifically and historically, the population seemed to take off with mechanization and large scale farming, etc. Collectively we don’t have a sense of high mortality rates due to wars, famine, and disease, for example. In the late sixties, when I studied “population problems” in college, the forecast was for the world population NOW to be about 12-13 billion, and decli
 
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otrrl said:
I called Fr Mitch Pacwa live on his TV show, and he poo poo-ed the question. Not a problem to him, I guess. I phrased the question in terms of the expression in Genesis, about “fill the earth.”-- when will it be filled?

Scientifically and historically, the population seemed to take off with mechanization and large scale farming, etc. Collectively we don’t have a sense of high mortality rates due to wars, famine, and disease, for example. In the late sixties, when I studied “population problems” in college, the forecast was for the world population NOW to be about 12-13 billion, and declining.
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I’m still pretty disappointed that the “Back to the Future” future didn’t happen…
 
Vonsalza said:
I’m not the one producing that language Rau!

See Tim!
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Okay the way I mean it for married couples is open to the possibility of a baby, for sterile couples, open to the exchange of life, mutual self giving without holding anything back. Though that element should be present also for fertile couples.
 
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Rau said:
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Vonsalza:
I’m not the one producing that language Rau!

See Tim!
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Note my posts to him. If you have a different understanding of “open to life”, happy to hear it.
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And this might be my error!

I assume that it implies “taking no specific action to frustrate its creation”. Which NFP obviously runs very afoul of.
 
Vonsalza said:
With all due respect, no one cares how you mean it. They care about how your sources mean it because those are the loci of authority.
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I think that the sources mean it in much the same way. It will be open as long as the couples do nothing to close it.

In contraception the life giving power is closed, shut off. In NFP, no such thing happens.

Abstinence even with intent is not closing he sexual act, it is simply not even doing it.
 
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Vonsalza said:
I assume that it implies “taking no specific action to frustrate its creation”. Which NFP obviously runs very afoul of.
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Taking no steps to frustrate the natural course of the act. NFP does not run foul of this.
 
anon65111186 said:
Abstinence even with intent is not closing he sexual act, it is simply not even doing it.
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Conflating simple abstinence with “I’m not going to have sex with you today because of your elevated fertility” is an outright deception.
 
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So the intent makes abstinence contraception? Is this some kind of act that makes a non act an act?
 
Rau said:
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Vonsalza:
I assume that it implies “taking no specific action to frustrate its creation”. Which NFP obviously runs very afoul of.
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Taking no steps to frustrate the natural course of the act. NFP does not run foul of this.
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The act of creating life?

Yes it does.

It deliberately withholds sex when the probability of the act to create life is at its most probable BECAUSE of that heightened probability.
 
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Vonsalza said:
Conflating simple abstinence with “I’m not going to have sex with you today because of your elevated fertility” is an outright deception.
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What wrong do you find in determining it is unwise to become pregnant at this time and thus refraining from sex for such times when that seems a good possibility?
 
I just heard this evening on EWTN some head of some committee says sex is declining in (I want to say America). Many YOUNG men are experiencing ED possible due to increase in pornogrophy??? Well, that’s what I heard and I thought it was eye-opening…
 
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