What do you admire about islam/muslims?

[Jay53]

algebra,

This is off topic, but I’m curious - what does your wife think of your conversion? If that’s too personal, please don’t feel obligated to answer.

 

[jakasaki]

**

Quote: algebra

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDNCatholic
And apparently forced upon the dhimmi

too no?

Correct.
We do live in a world where we are obligated to pay taxes.
I am not sure why we see our taxes (which we hate) any differently from the taxes back then.
A state has to tax to perform its functions (unless it is sitting on trillions of barrels of oil) **

I find the above ridiculous stating as if it’s la…la… la… paying taxes for religion is… la… la… blah… blah…

Algebra:

Do you know what a dhimmi is… It’s a person belonging to the category of “protected people” (ahl ad-Dhimmah) in the Islamic states.

Only those from the “people of the Book” you know Jews and Christians can become Dhimmis and then have certain rights, like privately worshiping according to their religion, as long as they pay the “protection money” (jizya) but are not considered citizens of the country.

Their status has to be one of humiliation.

Koran: Surah 9:#29
**Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low. **

Koran 9 #29 = mohamads law -

No true God will ever utter those words…

One needs to understand this term “protected people” properly.

Who do they need to be protected from?

From whom? Let’s take an educated guess… From the Muslims!

It is the same concept as when the mafia would come to a shop owner and tells him,

""From now on we are protecting you, and you are going to pay us such amount of money for this protection. You will not have to bear a weapon yourself. We take that responsibility""".

Remember the Godfather series- especially the part 2… if not perhaps you can catch up on classic mafia movies…

No one pays taxes on what their religion is unless they must live in the middle east where islam rules…

No compulsion on religion… … now where did I hear that before…

 

[LDNCatholic]

You are a bigot LDNCatholic.

Hows that?

And please, call me Peter.

 

[chrisse]

Yeah, the poor souls guarding the prison ships.

Joking!!!

 

[chrisse]

Hows that?

And please, call me Peter.

I’m just joining in the conversation, Peter. It seems popular to throw around bigot, racist etc.

 

[LDNCatholic]

I’m just joining in the conversation, Peter. It seems popular to throw around bigot, racist etc.

Well that sounds like fun, I sure know I’d like to throw some racists and bigots around.

 

[josie_L]

Well that sounds like fun, I sure know I’d like to throw some racists and bigots around.

Peter, I tried telling you that Chrisse, R_not, Charlotte, and Appleby were not stating all Muslims were dangerous, but you wouldn’t listen. I think you have hurt Chrisse by stating she is a bigot (albeit not in those exact words).

 

[ferdie]

We have a couple of posters who are Muslims who wish to covert/have converted but still live in nations where they will be KILLED the second they admit it. What they say on here is amazingly the same as what R_Not and others post.

FOr the record, and she knows this, R_not and I have not always agreed on the approach that she takes. However, she does back up her claims and puts them where they can be refuted. Very few Muslims on here have attempted to do so. In fact, it is typically Christians who try.

R_not has more first hand experience living in totalitarian Muslim nations than most of this board combined. She has seen women executed for not covering, beaten for driving, and more. She has lived amongst those who claim there is no compulsion in religion then force you to hide what you are.

I agree with you on this. The problem I see with her approach, is the total generalization that all muslims are evil. It is a dangerous approach. **We do not know the heart of each person **and to say that all muslims are like what she says they are, is uncharitable.

 

[algebra]

algebra,

This is off topic, but I’m curious - what does your wife think of your conversion? If that’s too personal, please don’t feel obligated to answer.

I will compress 1 year into 5 sentences.

Originally she left me.
Its what she is obligated to do according to islam.

I think , however, she realised that nothing good can come from an inherently destructive action (destroying our marriage); we have a baby together.

We talked about it, now she realises that she may be sinning according to her religion.
But the way she sees it, she is balancing a greater good against a sinful action.

Not sure if you understand what I am trying to say.

As long as I do not testify and try to convert her, she is content with the arrangement.

I am not sure I object to her bringing up our son as a muslim.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Peter, I tried telling you that Chrisse, R_not, Charlotte, and Appleby were not stating all Muslims were dangerous, but you wouldn’t listen. I think you have hurt Chrisse by stating she is a bigot (albeit not in those exact words).

I did no such thing. I am sorry if she took that from my words but I did not say that.

And yes, one certain poster did say that all Muslims were dangerous.

 

[algebra]

I would like to clarify something.

I came to what I see as the Truth, by the action of God.

So I expect my son too, will come to recognise the Truth, by the action of God.

Proselytising at home will not be easy, and will only create friction.

 

[mark_a]

I am not muslim, married to a muslim.

I am to be baptised this coming Easter.

In my time I have come to love Islam deeply.

What about islam/muslims do you admire so much?

I love the commitment of muslims to their faith.

It is rare to find this commitment amongst christians and even more rare amongst jews.

I admire how they are able the keep their faith and sanity under oppressive regimes that claim the same beliefs of the same prophet.

 

[josie_L]

I did no such thing. I am sorry if she took that from my words but I did not say that.

And yes, one certain poster did say that all Muslims were dangerous.

It looked like Chrisse was angry about your comment, she seems to think that comment was directed at her. Who are you refering to then?

 

[LDNCatholic]

It looked like Chrisse was angry about your comment, she seems to think that comment was directed at her. Who are you refering to then?

Read back to where I said ‘‘thinking like that is dangerous’’ above it is a quote from the person I am replying to. That is the person who I said ‘‘thinking like that is dangerous’’ to.

 

[josie_L]

Read back to where I said ‘‘thinking like that is dangerous’’ above it is a quote from the person I am replying to. That is the person who I said ‘‘thinking like that is dangerous’’ to.

Ok, I found what I was looking for. I’m still not convinced that that person meant all Muslims (although the wording doesn’t help), however, I will respect your take on it. God Bless Peter!

 

[ralphinal]

I agree with you on this. The problem I see with her approach, is the total generalization that all muslims are evil. It is a dangerous approach. **We do not know the heart of each person **and to say that all muslims are like what she says they are, is uncharitable.

I will not argue that point. It is correct.

Would it be acceptable to say any Islamic Theocratic government is evil?

 

[Kadaveri]

Ah all of those are fine, you’re in trouble if a Geordie (Newcastle) moves in. I’m fairly sure the only person who can understand what a Geordie with a thick accent is saying, is the man himself.

Ey hwot yee taakin aboot lieek? Yee betta juhs watch yer gob there gadgie or this Geordie Muslim aal come an dunsh yee one!

 

[dzheremi]

Boy, this thread is a mess. I am sorry that every thread that even mentions Islam turns into a huge argument, Algebra. This has happened with several of my threads, too.

I live in a town with many Muslims, primarily from Saudi Arabia, but also from UAE, Kuwait, and a few other places. It is a great place to be learning Arabic, for sure, but also to make Arab and Muslim friends. They are very respectful and for the most part friendly, and all the more so if you can manage a “marhaba” or “marhabtayn” (as appropriate) if you have seen them before around the language academy (where I go for my Arabic lessons).

Specific to their religion, I appreciate their attentiveness to ritual cleanliness and associated custom. I appreciate their women veil themselves in keeping with their tradition. So many things that western Christians seem to have taken as negotiable or neglectable as “minor details” do not seem to be so among Muslims with regard to their own practice.

In terms of the actual content of the faith, I find nothing admirable in it that could not also be found in other religions. Whether you believe that the Qur’an incites violence in its faithful or not (I believe it does, but that’s for another thread), I see Muhammad and his successors as destroyers or attempted murderers of Eastern Christianity. There is no other way to put it. The Middle East and North and Northeastern Africa were blessed by great Christian societies prior to the invention of Islam. Palestine, the Maghrib, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Sudan, Ethiopia, Eritrea…some of these places maintain their historic Christianity, but in all it is highly threatened, and the people doing the threatening are Muslims, and they are doing so with at least the tacit consent of many powerful religious leaders and thinkers, and violent and hateful interpretations of the Qur’an that (to the outsider) seem to be gaining ever more currency among not yet radicalized populations. I think we are kidding ourselves if we do not at least say that these readings which provoke such hatred in the extremists are possible because the Qur’an itself is of two minds about violence, sometimes abhorring it and other times upholding it as a sacred duty. If that is “no different than the Bible”, as is often claimed, then a non-confrontational response could be that the Christian communities of the world have long since moved past the most violent interpretations of their Holy Book, to the benefit of all mankind. Should those Muslims who are able to affect change in their communities ever desire to do the same (and, yes, I recognize that some are already doing so, but they are obviously not powerful enough yet), I will find that to be VERY admirable of them. I am still waiting as of this post for any such indication outside of impoverished movements and some brave individuals who are usually rapidly silenced by jailings, killings, torture, and exile.

 

[LilyM]

I would like to clarify something.

I came to what I see as the Truth, by the action of God.

So I expect my son too, will come to recognise the Truth, by the action of God.

Proselytising at home will not be easy, and will only create friction.

It’s part of Catholic parenthood that you are obligated to baptise your child Catholic and to do your best to instruct him in the Catholic faith, no matter how much ‘friction’ that causes.

Your soul and his, and your obligations before God, are more important than keeping a false peace in the family.

 

[ferdie]

I will not argue that point. It is correct.

Would it be acceptable to say any Islamic Theocratic government is evil?

I don’t know if I can call any of them evil… maybe wrong and misguided. All I know is that the Quran is not from God and that Muhammad din not have a conversation with the angel Gabriel.