What do you think is the biggest obstacle to unity between Catholic Christians and non–Catholic Christians?

[ScottishColleen]

ScottishColleen,

You’ve lost me.

Confusedly,
Mick

I’m still learning about this issue, so maybe my words are hit and miss due to my lack of understanding (in fact, my husband is sitting here explaining some of it to me now LOL)

 

[SSTeacher]

I think there’s a confusion here as to what, or whom, the term Immaculate Conception refers to. Mary was immaculately conceived but in the normal human fashion. Jesus was miraculously conceived and not in the normal human fashion at all, but rather by the power of the Holy Spirit overshadowing the Virgin Mary. No human male partner played a role in his conception.

Hope that helps.

Disciple96,

Thanks. I think that helps. The Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception describes required Catholic belief about Mary’s birth whereas the birth of Jesus is usually described as the Virgin Birth. The Virgin Birth isn’t as divisive a doctrine amongst Christians as is the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, wouldn’t you agree?

Cordially,
Mick

 

[thirdn6]

j.

First of all, most people, Catholics and non-catholics alike, I think, are losing their fear of God.
Consequently, they’re losing their humility and become selfish.
They no longer listen.
They become disobedient.
(And surely there is punishment for this.)

IF ONLY people, Christians esp., will recognize their God again…
If only they recognize that we all live (or die) by His laws and commandments…
If only they recognize that even God Himself obey His own laws so that He could not interfere with our free will…
If only Christians recognize that a merciful God SENT His only beloved Son in order to save us and recognize that the Son also SENT His apostles through His Church to spread this good news of salvation…
If only they recognize that He SENT the Holy Spirit to guide this Catholic Church (alone) in evangelizing the entire world with the uniformity of beliefs, truths and doctrines…
Then maybe we can say we are in unity with our Lord.

Aside: I suppose the biggest embarassment would be this…
After each one of us receives his/her own judgment in the court of the Lord - the Most High Judge…
When human reasonings will no longer be acceptable…
Many among us will be shaking their heads as they are led down to nothingness, murmuring… “I should have obeyed!!!”

 

[Anna_Scott]

Re: The Sacrament of Holy Communion

In Post #623, Erchomai Kyrios called the Roman Catholic belief “Transubstantiation.” He said “the elements of the bread and wine are physically transformed and become the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

In Post 624, Jmcrae said, “Not physically, but substantially, the bread and wine become the Body and Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ.”

It appears that you are both basically saying the same thing.

Of course, by now, many of you know that just when it appears that an issue is settled, I usually have more questions.

**1. **What causes this transformation of the bread and wine? Does a Priest say certain prayers?

**2. **If you can’t see the bread and wine change in substance or physicality, how do you know this change has taken place?

**3. **Does transformation mean that Christ becomes God Incarnate, suffering crucifixion with body and blood every time the Sacrament of Holy Communion is performed?

In Post #623 I said, “I believe that Christ is Spiritually present during this Holy Sacrament, and that partaking in this Sacrament is done in Remembrance of the Body of Christ-broken for us; and of the Cup-poured out for us as the New Covenant in the Blood of Christ.”

I did acknowledge that I believe hints of both beliefs can be found in Scripture. **John 6:55 **does say, “For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.”

Verse in context:
John 6:53-56 (ESV): 53So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

On the other hand, 1 Corinthians speaks of the Sacrament in more symbolic terms:

**1 Corinthians 11:23-29 (ESV): 23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "This is my body which is for[a] you. Do this in remembrance of me."
25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. Footnotes: a. 1 Corinthians 11:24 Some manuscripts broken for; b.1 Corinthians 11:24 Or as my memorial; also verse 25.

Luke Chapter 22 also suggests a more symbolic observance of the Sacrament:

Luke 22:18-20(ESV): 18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes." 19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 20And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.[a]
Footnotes: a. Luke 22:20 Some manuscripts omit, in whole or in part, verses 19b-20 (which is given . . . in my blood)

I suppose I really don’t understand what the physical transformation of the bread and wine would accomplish.

**4. **What is the purpose of a physical transformation as opposed to a symbolic Remembrance of Christ—Whose body was broken for us, and Whose blood was poured out for us in the new covenant in His Blood?

The following Scriptures speak of the “the Spirit who gives life,” and “to set the mind on the flesh is death.”

**5. **How would you interpret these Scriptures in relation to Holy Communion? Or do you believe there is no connection to the Sacrament?

**John 6:62-64(ESV): **62Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.)

Romans 8:6 (ESV): 6For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.

I do really want to understand the Catholic viewpoint regarding the Sacrament of Holy Communion. I welcome all comments.

Always Asking,
Anna**

 

[jmcrae]

In Post #623 I said, “I believe that Christ is Spiritually present during this Holy Sacrament, and that partaking in this Sacrament is done in Remembrance of the Body of Christ-broken for us; and of the Cup-poured out for us as the New Covenant in the Blood of Christ.”

I did acknowledge that I believe hints of both beliefs can be found in Scripture. **John 6:55 **does say, “For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.”

Verse in context:
John 6:53-56 (ESV): 53So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

On the other hand, 1 Corinthians speaks of the Sacrament in more symbolic terms:

1 Corinthians 11:23-29 (ESV): 23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "This is my body which is for[a] you. Do this in remembrance of me."
25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. Footnotes: a. 1 Corinthians 11:24 Some manuscripts broken for; b.1 Corinthians 11:24 Or as my memorial; also verse 25.

Luke Chapter 22 also suggests a more symbolic observance of the Sacrament:

Luke 22:18-20(ESV): 18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes." 19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 20And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.[a]
Footnotes: a. Luke 22:20 Some manuscripts omit, in whole or in part, verses 19b-20 (which is given . . . in my blood)

The word translated as “remembrance” is anamnesis - a “making present” - where you bring an event that occurred in the past, into the present moment, such that the effects of that past event are taking place in the present.

For example, in the Passover of the Jews, they don’t just remember in a nostalgic way, the Exodus. They actually enter into it, spiritually. They themselves are being set free from Egyptian slavery in the present moment - they themselves are being called into the Covenant of the Ten Commandments. They aren’t just being nostalgic about an event that took place long ago and far away - they are actually experiencing its effects in their own lives.

Another example is, in a family when someone passes away, if some custom of that person remains with the family (for example, someone tells the same story that that person told, and cooks the same meal that that person cooked) then even those present who never met that person, are experiencing something of the effects of that person, in their own lives.

Now, these examples are only a shadow of what Holy Communion is. In Holy Communion, we move beyond even the Passover experience, or the experiencing of remembering the beloved dead.

I suppose I really don’t understand what the physical transformation of the bread and wine would accomplish.

 

[jmcrae]

Re: The Sacrament of Holy Communion

In Post #623, Erchomai Kyrios called the Roman Catholic belief “Transubstantiation.” He said “the elements of the bread and wine are physically transformed and become the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

In Post 624, Jmcrae said, “Not physically, but substantially, the bread and wine become the Body and Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ.”

It appears that you are both basically saying the same thing.

Of course, by now, many of you know that just when it appears that an issue is settled, I usually have more questions.

**1. **What causes this transformation of the bread and wine? Does a Priest say certain prayers?

We believe that when the priest is saying Mass, he is “in persona Christi” - that is, he kind of takes on the person of Christ. So, when he recites the words of the Consecration, it is really Jesus saying these words, and it is really Jesus who effects (causes) the transformation.

**2. **If you can’t see the bread and wine change in substance or physicality, how do you know this change has taken place?

The glory of God blinds the sight, so we walk by faith, and not by sight - as St. Thomas Aquinas said, it is faith that tells us Christ is present, when our feeble senses fail.

**3. **Does transformation mean that Christ becomes God Incarnate, suffering crucifixion with body and blood every time the Sacrament of Holy Communion is performed?

Not suffering crucifixion - rather, glorified in His Resurrection. We receive Jesus alive and well, Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity. Recall the story of the disciples at Emmaus - when they encountered the Risen Christ, they recognized Him in the breaking of the bread. That’s what we do, every time we go to Mass.

 

[Anna_Scott]

The word translated as “remembrance” is anamnesis - a “making present” - where you bring an event that occurred in the past, into the present moment, such that the effects of that past event are taking place in the present.

For example, in the Passover of the Jews, they don’t just remember in a nostalgic way, the Exodus. They actually enter into it, spiritually. They themselves are being set free from Egyptian slavery in the present moment - they themselves are being called into the Covenant of the Ten Commandments. They aren’t just being nostalgic about an event that took place long ago and far away - they are actually experiencing its effects in their own lives.

Another example is, in a family when someone passes away, if some custom of that person remains with the family (for example, someone tells the same story that that person told, and cooks the same meal that that person cooked) then even those present who never met that person, are experiencing something of the effects of that person, in their own lives.

Now, these examples are only a shadow of what Holy Communion is. In Holy Communion, we move beyond even the Passover experience, or the experiencing of remembering the beloved dead.

It’s the difference between talking to someone by telephone, and being with him in person. He can touch you, caress you, change you, heal you. The more we receive the Eucharist, the more we are transformed into His likeness, just as a married couple, the more they are together, the more alike they become.

In this case, “the flesh” is not Christ’s flesh, nor even our physical flesh, but rather, all of those things that divide us from Christ - selfishness, gossip, sin, etc. Jesus is not denying that we must receive Him in Holy Communion - rather, He is reminding us that He is not merely nourishment for the body, but rather He is nourishment for our souls - He is a spiritual banquet; not a material banquet.

Notice the process of John 6. First, we begin with Jesus feeding the multitudes with bread and fish - a physical dinner to satisfy their physical hunger. Then, He walks across the water (by His actions He is showing us that He is moving from the material plane to the spiritual plane - “crossing the river” has always been a symbolic phrase meaning to ascend to a more spiritual plane; to go to Heaven, etc.) So, Jesus “crosses the river” in His body, without using a boat, to show us that what’s going to happen next is of a higher nature than what just happened.

The people follow him and find him, and ask him for more bread. He then gives us the Bread of Life discourse, showing the meaning of Holy Communion, that it is not merely bread and wine, but really and truly Himself, being given to us to transform our souls; not just our bodies.

Jmcrae:

Thank you for such a detailed explanation of the Sacrament of Holy Communion. I read your two posts several times. I can see that your writing comes from the heart. I have great respect for that.

Yet, I would say there is a vast ocean between our observance and understanding of this Holy Sacrament.

I would like to ask any Orthodox Christians or Anglican Christians on this forum to let me know if you share the Catholic view of Holy Communion.

 

[Hesychios]

There is no significant difference between the Orthodox understanding of the Holy Eucharist and the Papal Catholic understanding. Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

      Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever."

These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.John 6:54-59 NAB

Divine Liturgy Priest’s prayers:
Lord, God Almighty, You alone are holy. You accept a sacrifice of praise from those who call upon You with their whole heart. Receive also the prayer of us sinners and let it reach Your holy altar. Enable us to bring before You gifts and spiritual sacrifices for our sins and for the transgressions of the people. Make us worthy to find grace in Your presence so that our sacrifice may be pleasing to You and that Your good and gracious Spirit may abide with us, with the gifts here presented, and with all Your people.

**Through the mercies of Your only begotten Son with whom You are blessed, together with Your all holy, good, and life giving Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages!

****It is proper and right to sing to You, bless You, praise You, thank You and worship You in all places of Your dominion; for You are God ineffable, beyond comprehension, invisible, beyond understanding, existing forever and always the same; You and Your only begotten Son and Your Holy Spirit. You brought us into being out of nothing, and when we fell, You raised us up again. You did not cease doing everything until You led us to heaven and granted us Your kingdom to come. For all these things we thank You and Your only begotten Son and Your Holy Spirit; for all things that we know and do not know, for blessings seen and unseen that have been bestowed upon us. We also thank You for this liturgy which You are pleased to accept from our hands, even though You are surrounded by thousands of Archangels and tens of thousands of Angels, by the Cherubim and Seraphim, six-winged, many-eyed, soaring with their wings, Singing the victory hymn, proclaiming, crying out, and saying:
**
***Holy, holy, holy, Lord Sabaoth, heaven and earth are filled with Your glory. Hosanna in the highest. Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. Hosanna to God in the highest.

*** Together with these blessed powers, merciful Master, we also proclaim and say: You are holy and most holy, You and Your only begotten Son and Your Holy Spirit. You are holy and most holy, and sublime is Your glory. You so loved Your world that You gave Your only begotten Son so that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. He came and fulfilled the divine plan for us. On the night when He was delivered up, or rather when He gave Himself up for the life of the world, He took bread in His holy, pure, and blameless hands, gave thanks, blessed, sanctified, broke and gave it to His holy disciples and apostles, saying:

Take, eat, this is my Body which is broken for you for the forgiveness of sins…

Likewise, after supper, He took the cup, saying:

Drink of it all of you; this is my Blood of the new Covenant which is shed for you and for many for the forgiveness of sins…

Remembering, therefore, this command of the Savior, and all that came to pass for our sake, the cross, the tomb, the resurrection on the third day, the ascension into heaven, the enthronement at the right hand of the Father, and the second, glorious coming, we offer to You these gifts from Your own gifts in all and for all. Once again we offer to You this spiritual worship without the shedding of blood, and we ask, pray, and entreat You: send down Your Holy Spirit upon us and upon these gifts here presented…

     ** * ...and make this bread the precious Body of Your Christ.***

…and that which is in this cup the precious Blood of Your Christ.

Changing them by Your Holy Spirit.

Amen, Amen, Amen!

View attachment 6007

 

[wcknight]

With all the Eucharistic miracles, you would think the issue of whether the bread and wine actually become the Body and Blood of Jesus is finally settled. It has been debated for hundreds of years and even the most jaded skeptic would have to say God is definitely telling us something, when on many occasions the host has dripped blood, or has turned into a beating human heart or the wine has turned to blood.

No it has not done so on EVERY occasion, but a few times is more than enough. I think there are something like 150 documented Eucharistic miracles.

See this web site: therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html

 

[Anna_Scott]

wcknight: I appreciate your comments on the Eucharistic miracles. I will check the link you suggested. You would think things would be settled at this point in history, but sadly they are not. Each church has its miracles: good idea for a new Thread, actually.

hesychios:

Thank you for your comments and sharing the Divine Liturgy Priest’s Prayers with me. That is the first time I have read that prayer. It is a beautiful prayer.

I am amazed at the effort that so many of you put into helping me understand your beliefs. There is nothing like hearing your beliefs spoken directly from the heart. It is different than reading Catechism-which I know is a topic of another current Thread-“Protestants: Why don’t you do us all a favor?”

It is important for me to hear what you have to say. That doesn’t mean I will convert, but your words definitely enrich my life. I think we can all learn something from each other.

In registering on this Catholic website, I listed my religion as “Protestant Christian.” I mistakenly thought I had to label my Christianity.

I do not like the Protestant label. I have huge problems with the actions and writings of Luther and Calvin—the so-called “Great Protestant Reformers.”

The word “Protestant” (Dictionary.com) is defined as “Western Christian who is not an adherent of a Catholic, Anglican, or Eastern Church.” I’m assuming Eastern is Orthodox-please correct me if I’m wrong.

I have read remarks on other Threads about how Protestants can’t agree on Scripture, etc.; which is absolutely true. Protestants have a long way to go to come to anything close to full agreement.

I think people forget that “Protestant” is not the title of a religion. The Protestant Sector contains many different religions. We are not all the same. Just as there are differences in beliefs among Catholics, Anglicans (Episcopalians), and Orthodox Christians; there are differences among Protestant religions.

It seems that the more I study, the more I pray, and the closer I come to God in my Spiritual walk; the more distant I feel from Churches in the Protestant sector. Yet, I do not fit in with the Catholic, Anglican, or Orthodox sectors either. That is why I have said, in previous posts, that sometimes I feel like I don’t know where I belong. That does not mean that I am confused about what I believe, though my studies have opened huge windows of understanding.

The only label I can accept without question or confusion is “Christian.”

Spiritually, of course, my pursuit is the truth and will of God. I think most of us share that pursuit. I have experienced more than one miracle in my lifetime. As I look back over the years; I can see God’s intervention, His protection, His gentle hand in guiding my son and me. I still get sidetracked by my own human nature.

Sometimes I take the long way home: that is to say, I take the long way back to God’s path. I want, with all my heart, to follow in the footsteps of Jesus; yet I fail again and again. At least it keeps me humble.

I know I ask a lot of questions; and I’m sure there are times when I try the patience of those on this and other Forums. I definitely “test” almost everything.

So, my friends, I want to say that I appreciate each of you; and I would like to stick around for a while longer-if you don’t have any objections.

In the Pursuit of God’s Truth and Will,
Anna

 

[wisdomseeker]

wcknight: I appreciate your comments on the Eucharistic miracles. I will check the link you suggested. You would think things would be settled at this point in history, but sadly they are not. Each church has its miracles: good idea for a new Thread, actually.

hesychios:

Thank you for your comments and sharing the Divine Liturgy Priest’s Prayers with me. That is the first time I have read that prayer. It is a beautiful prayer.

I am amazed at the effort that so many of you put into helping me understand your beliefs. There is nothing like hearing your beliefs spoken directly from the heart. It is different than reading Catechism-which I know is a topic of another current Thread-“Protestants: Why don’t you do us all a favor?”

It is important for me to hear what you have to say. That doesn’t mean I will convert, but your words definitely enrich my life. I think we can all learn something from each other.

In registering on this Catholic website, I listed my religion as “Protestant Christian.” I mistakenly thought I had to label my Christianity.

I do not like the Protestant label. I have huge problems with the actions and writings of Luther and Calvin—the so-called “Great Protestant Reformers.”

The word “Protestant” (Dictionary.com) is defined as “Western Christian who is not an adherent of a Catholic, Anglican, or Eastern Church.” I’m assuming Eastern is Orthodox-please correct me if I’m wrong.

I have read remarks on other Threads about how Protestants can’t agree on Scripture, etc.; which is absolutely true. Protestants have a long way to go to come to anything close to full agreement.

I think people forget that “Protestant” is not the title of a religion. The Protestant Sector contains many different religions. We are not all the same. Just as there are differences in beliefs among Catholics, Anglicans (Episcopalians), and Orthodox Christians; there are differences among Protestant religions.

It seems that the more I study, the more I pray, and the closer I come to God in my Spiritual walk; the more distant I feel from Churches in the Protestant sector. Yet, I do not fit in with the Catholic, Anglican, or Orthodox sectors either. That is why I have said, in previous posts, that sometimes I feel like I don’t know where I belong. That does not mean that I am confused about what I believe, though my studies have opened huge windows of understanding.

The only label I can accept without question or confusion is “Christian.”

Spiritually, of course, my pursuit is the truth and will of God. I think most of us share that pursuit. I have experienced more than one miracle in my lifetime. As I look back over the years; I can see God’s intervention, His protection, His gentle hand in guiding my son and me. I still get sidetracked by my own human nature.

Sometimes I take the long way home: that is to say, I take the long way back to God’s path. I want, with all my heart, to follow in the footsteps of Jesus; yet I fail again and again. At least it keeps me humble.

I know I ask a lot of questions; and I’m sure there are times when I try the patience of those on this and other Forums. I definitely “test” almost everything.

So, my friends, I want to say that I appreciate each of you; and I would like to stick around for a while longer-if you don’t have any objections.

In the Pursuit of God’s Truth and Will,
Anna

hi Anna. you are a gentle human being. have you ever watch EWTN? it is a Catholic Chanel. you can get a lot of info on Catholic Church. on Saturdays at 2:00 pm Jeff Cavin gives a beautifull Bible study. hope you will find time to watch this Saturday. God bless.

 

[Anna_Scott]

hi Anna. you are a gentle human being. have you ever watch EWTN? it is a Catholic Chanel. you can get a lot of info on Catholic Church. on Saturdays at 2:00 pm Jeff Cavin gives a beautifull Bible study. hope you will find time to watch this Saturday. God bless.

wisdomseeker:

I don’t usually watch Religious channels, but since you were so kind to suggest it, I will check it out.

Thank you,
Anna

 

[Bob_McKissick]

wisdomseeker:

I don’t usually watch Religious channels, but since you were so kind to suggest it, I will check it out.

Thank you,
Anna

Anna: May I suggest that when you check out EWTN you will find many programs that are not very good, some that stink, some that are interesting and many that are excellent. You will have to take time to filter these out. Ramond Arroyya has the best news program on TV. I could hardly stand him when I first ran into him but now he is my favorite. You have said, “I feel” thus and so. Our feelings come and go like the winds. It is what we know that is essential to our making decisions as to how we will live our lives. Our Lord, Jesus, knew we would have many questions and concerns in our way through life and that is why He placed His Mystical Body, the Church on earth to guide us on our way. Sacred Scripture is His Divine Word written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit through human instrumentation to be proclaimed by His priests to His people without error so that we may know the Truth and the Truth may set us free from error. Our Lord said, “I am the Way and the Truth and the Life!” We shall know the Christ and the Christ shall set us free from error.
The Sacrifice of the Mass is not something that is done over and over again, it is the continuation of Our Lord’s Sacrifice of Himself to Our Father in an unbloody manner so that we receive the very same Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus as the Apostles received at the Last Supper!! Seek and you shall find, ask and you shall receive, knock and it shall be opened to you. We await you at Home. bob mck

 

[wisdomseeker]

wisdomseeker:

I don’t usually watch Religious channels, but since you were so kind to suggest it, I will check it out.

Thank you,
Anna

thank you. you are very kind.

Peace be with you.

 

[Erchomai_Kyrios]

Anna:

That is why I have said, in previous posts, that sometimes I feel like I don’t know where I belong. That does not mean that I am confused about what I believe, though my studies have opened huge windows of understanding.

The only label I can accept without question or confusion is “Christian.”

Hi Anna,
Amen!
Well I’d rather be called a derivative of our King’s blessed title, meaning I am His subject, than any other name or denonination under the sun. It is by His Name that we derive our name for we are His - the Head of the ekklēsiai, every man, woman, and child that belong to His Sacred body. This practice first began at Antioch, where we first find the very roots of the Gentile church, and it was there that we find Christ’s own were first called “Christ-ian”.

Luke:

egeneto de autois kai eniauton holon sunachthēnai en tēi ekklēsiai kai didaxai ochlon hikanon, chrēmatisai te prōtōs en Antiocheiai tous mathētas Christianous. - Acts 11:26
And it came to pass (that) they, for an entire year, gathered in the church and taught many people. Also a first in Antioch were the disciples were nicknamed Christians.

So those who became Christ’s, endowed as His own by the Holy Spirit, began to be so numerous and noticible (let your light so shine before men - not buried in a bushel basket but lights set on a hilltop to be salt) that theire Greek neighbors and Hellenized Jews began to call them all Christianos. My guess is they couldn’t stop talking about Christ Jesus!
May God Bless your day my friend!
Erchomai Kyrios

 

[Anna_Scott]

Hi Anna,
Amen!
Well I’d rather be called a derivative of our King’s blessed title, meaning I am His subject, than any other name or denonination under the sun. It is by His Name that we derive our name for we are His - the Head of the ekklēsiai, every man, woman, and child that belong to His Sacred body. This practice first began at Antioch, where we first find the very roots of the Gentile church, and it was there that we find Christ’s own were first called “Christ-ian”.

So those who became Christ’s, endowed as His own by the Holy Spirit, began to be so numerous and noticible (let your light so shine before men - not buried in a bushel basket but lights set on a hilltop to be salt) that theire Greek neighbors and Hellenized Jews began to call them all Christianos. My guess is they couldn’t stop talking about Christ Jesus!
May God Bless your day my friend!
Erchomai Kyrios

Erchomai Kyrios:

As always, it is so good to hear your words. Thank you for the wonderful reminder of the name we are called: “Christian.”

Anna

 

[SSTeacher]

The only label I can accept without question or confusion is “Christian.”

Anna

Hi Anna,

Some Christians believe salvation is an event, some believe salvation is a process, and some believe salvation is both an event and a process. What do you believe about salvation and how did you arrive at your understanding?

Curiously,
Mick

 

[Anna_Scott]

Anna: May I suggest that when you check out EWTN you will find many programs that are not very good, some that stink, some that are interesting and many that are excellent. You will have to take time to filter these out. Ramond Arroyya has the best news program on TV. I could hardly stand him when I first ran into him but now he is my favorite. You have said, “I feel” thus and so. Our feelings come and go like the winds. It is what we know that is essential to our making decisions as to how we will live our lives. Our Lord, Jesus, knew we would have many questions and concerns in our way through life and that is why He placed His Mystical Body, the Church on earth to guide us on our way. Sacred Scripture is His Divine Word written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit through human instrumentation to be proclaimed by His priests to His people without error so that we may know the Truth and the Truth may set us free from error. Our Lord said, “I am the Way and the Truth and the Life!” We shall know the Christ and the Christ shall set us free from error.
The Sacrifice of the Mass is not something that is done over and over again, it is the continuation of Our Lord’s Sacrifice of Himself to Our Father in an unbloody manner so that we receive the very same Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus as the Apostles received at the Last Supper!! Seek and you shall find, ask and you shall receive, knock and it shall be opened to you. We await you at Home. bob mck

Bob McKissick:

I appreciate your tips on EWTN.

You have said, “I feel” thus and so. Our feelings come and go like the winds. It is what we know that is essential to our making decisions as to how we will live our lives.

I think you have misunderstood me. I agree with what you said: “Our feelings come and go like the winds.”

I have indeed spoken about how I feel about certain things, but my faith is not driven by “feelings.” My faith and beliefs are driven through the guidance of the Holy Spirit and “by every word that comes from the mouth of God.”

 

[Anna_Scott]

Hi Anna,

Some Christians believe salvation is an event, some believe salvation is a process, and some believe salvation is both an event and a process. What do you believe about salvation and how did you arrive at your understanding?

Curiously,
Mick

Mick:

I have much to say about this. I will start with a cut and paste of one of my earlier Posts on this Thread: #586. This will also address the issue of “feelings,” raised by Bob McKissick earlier today. I will write more tomorrow, when I am replenished.

Originally Posted by humble_in_doubt
it’s funny … the reformers never depicted salvation as “an event” in the way contemporary evangelicals do. Catholic apologists misconstrued their doctrines & accused them of framing salvation as an event (inferring there is no requirement to live your faith, live in holiness, perform good works, etc); and I guess it became a self-fulfilling prophecy (since it caught on & today many if not most evangelicals have taken the view that a one time profession for Christ guarantees ones salvation regardless of their future behavior or beliefs).

**Jun 13, '09, 9:58 am Post #586 by Anna Scott **

Humble in Doubt:
You have made an astute observation.

I am a Christian in the Protestant sector. There are indeed many differing ideas about salvation. I have heard just about all of them in my 54 years on this planet.

I think there is much confusion in some Protestant Churches (not all) regarding spiritual experiences–as opposed to emotional experiences. The two are not the same.

I have heard many ministers and Bible study teachers espouse the idea “once saved, always saved,” with great emphasis on faith as opposed to works.

However, the Bible clearly states that we must have both faith and works, and we **can **actually lose our salvation.

I will let the Scriptures speak:

John 5:25-29 (NASB):
25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
26 "For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.
28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Hebrews 6:4-6 (NIV):
4** It is impossible** for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age,
6** if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace**.

Hebrews 12:14-16 (NIV):
14 Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
15 See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.
16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son.

James 2:14-18(ESV):
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?
17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
Footnotes: a. James 2:16 Or benefit

James 2:21-26 (ESV):
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?
22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;
23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God.
24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
26** For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead**.

2 Peter 3:16-18 (NIV):
16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
17** Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. **18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

1 John 2:4-6 (NIV):
4 The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:
6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

Anna

 

[Mimi]

Is it,

a) Disagreement as to whether salvation is an event or a process?
b) Disagreement about the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception?
c) Disagreement about praying for the dead?
d) Disagreement about the existence of purgatory?
e) Disagreement about how to understand baptism?
f) Disagreement about the doctrine of Transubstantiation?
g) Disagreement about confession of one’s sins being heard by a priest?
h) Disagreement about the perpetual virginity of the Mother of God?
i) Disagreement about the papacy and papal infallibility?
j) Some other doctrine or factor?

Curiously,
Mick

I admit I skipped right to the end after seeing that this thread went quickly into an argument about Religion…

The biggest obstacle is faith in an Authority (or lack of recognizing one), given to us by Jesus (Peter), annointed by the Holy Spirit, won for all by Christ’s blood. All we have to do is be humble enough to admit that. All the rest will fall into place. Scripture will then be integrated; (note to non-Catholics – please get a complete Bible first).

God bless, and may you be led to the Truth,
Mimi