What do you think of the Neocatechumenal Way?

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txancete
Don’t be so fool. EVERY CATHOLIC thinks he or she has been chosen by God “since their mother’s womb”.
…
You know that you are telling lies, with some truths within it to confuse. Stop and think if you are offending someone that is in the need of this Way.
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Thanks for calling me a fool (“raca”) and a liar. You confirm my thoughts of the Neocatechumenate.
 
The Neocatechumenal way has been approved by the Pope in 1990.

He said: “I acknowledge the Neocatechumenal Way as an itinerary of Catholic formation, valid for our society and for our times.”

Today: 1 million people, 1300 priests, hundreds of missionary families, 64 seminars…

camminoneocatecumenale.it/en/index.asp

Their catechisms, written by Kiko and Carmen, which provide a model for all of the Way, have never been made public, and are still under examination by the Vatican Congregation.

It has always been subject to strong criticism and has been condemned by cardinals, bishops, important Episcopal conferences, ex-adept, theologian, psychologist…

What Pope’s saw in theory seem to be a little bit different in practice…

I’ll let you decide, if this movement is dangerous enough to be stop…

If you’re part of this way, please let us know before answering…

Take some time to read carefully these tons of texts that speaks for themselves:

Tons of pages translate from different languages:
psychologue-clinicien.com/anglais/chemin.htm

jloughnan.tripod.com/neocat.htm

A site regrouping different pages against the path:
geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/6919/english.ht

QUOTING THE NEOCATECHUMENALS
From The Founders and Catechists of the Neocatechumenal Way
jloughnan.tripod.com/append1.htm

Some Comments Made By The NeoCatechumenal Catechists at St Patrick’s, Lilydale, and some counter comments
jloughnan.tripod.com/append2.htm

Testimony of a couple of USA against the path
psychologue-clinicien.com/usa.htm

A Catholic site
eraofpeace.tripod.com/nchintro.html

chiesa.espressonline.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=6894&eng=y

ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Ronald_Haynes/welcome.htm

psychologue-clinicien.com/anglais/temaugusto.htm

And now, for the wise of you, how can we help our Pope to see the truth and maybe save millions of souls…

Never stop asking yourself questions…
 
  1. “The Church diverted from the course of the ‘primitive church’ at the time of Constantine 2 - and did not get back on track until the Second Vatican Council.” The implications being: Bad Church from 314 to 1962 (Vatican II); better now with the Neocatechumenal Way!
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For the single session that I attended, this was the implication. This is rubbish.
 
Hello everyone. I will admit immediately that I joined here for the purpose of addressing this question. It was brought to my attention yesterday and since I’ve been a member of the Way for 2 years, I thought I could add something to the conversation.

My background: born into a Catholic family of 13, my father went to the seminary for a few years before leaving and meeting my mother. His brother is a Marian priest in Zambia. My mother had 3 brothers that became Catholic priests and and pastors of American Catholic parishes. She has a sister and neice who are nuns. Very orthodox Catholics in my family. My father taught us to know our faith so well that I would smell heresy from a mile away. I studied apologetics for awhile and know all the protestant arguments. I was often the lone student at university standing up to defend the Church and Catholic teaching. I don’t have idols in my life like movie stars or sports heros. I always thought these human idols were ridiculous. My own manager would probably testify that I reject the business idols and philosophies that would probably help me with that promotion I never get…if I could just fall in line with corporate thinking. Meaning, I’m not easily persuaded, fooled, star-struck, or bought out.

When I was introduced to the Way, I was initially skeptical so I went out and got information on cults…10 identifying features of a cult. I went to meetings for months and stood silently at the back observing and listening. I had missed the initial catechism so was not really sure what the teaching behind it all was, so I just observed the ‘community’ in practice. This is what I experienced and concluded.

The group meets 2x a week, once for the Word and once for Mass. The Word is based on a theme which is chosen in advance by smaller groups that prepare everything for the service. The readings are chosen from all the major sections of the bible and the chosen theme runs through each one. After a public reading, members are invited to express how the readings have meaning for them in their own lives and how it helps them to move forward in their journey of faith. Members are asked to speak about themselves only and to avoid teaching, preaching, admonitioning or commenting on others in the group. The aim is to find how the universal truths of those readings pertain to them in their current reality. There is no requirement to speak -ever. You can actually sit there for years and listen without having to speak about yourself at all. But the forum allows each one to speak if they so choose. When the comments are done, the priest gives a homily on the readings.

I was never pressured in my group to stay, speak, act or believe in anything. I was always made to feel welcome but was never pushed. Everything was an invitation, and the priest always reminded us that everything we do is done in freedom. There was never any indoctrination - ever. After a year, I went to the catechism which was presented by some people from New York who were themselves catechized by Kiko and/or his associates or had close proximity to these folks. Nothing in the catechism ever came close to heresy. Instead, they were seeking only to make us really truly understand the love of God for each of us exactly where we are in our own lives/sins/weaknesses. There was definite evidence of their own holiness, poverty, sacrifice and devotion to God and to the Church. They reflected Christ to me.

If I am permitted, I will continue on next post.
 
This year, I accompanied these catechists and a lot of others to WYD in Germany and was also present at the gathering of Way members the following day. During the 10 day pilgrimage, I first encountered the most Christian family I’ve met in a long time in New York. Seven young children and the father took the time to pick us up at the airport and host us at his house. His wife prepared a big meal and fed us well. Seven young children were gracious and well behaved and respectful. The joy and love in this family was something that took me back to my youth and the visits to my extended family reunions where…I at that time also witnessed this type of love. Something in the intervening years seemed to have gotten lost in society because it took this visit to New York to really recognize what I had been missing. From New York we flew to Germany. With 150 people, the catechists worked themselves to the bone at great personal sacrifice. The love they held for each person and the concern they showed for young people was impressive. They alway put themselves last and when everyone else dropped into bed, they went to work planning the next day. Observing them made me feel shame that I have been so self-centered and lazy about evangelizing my own faith. At the meeting of all Way members, I listened to Kiko and his wife speak, among others including Archbishops and bishops. The speach was right on the money about the conditions in the world today as far as the dangers of secularism, atheism etc. There was not one single thing in that speach that was unorthodox in nature. Then the call for the priests to enter, and they came in procession by the thousands. Thousands upon thousands of priests, carrying the crucifix and the statue of the Blessed Mother in front. Then the calling of young people who believe they are being called to the orders. more than 10 thousand woman and men came forward in 2 separate calls. It was amazing. There was no such thing at this meeting as indoctrination. It was a clear and precise call to embrace the crosses of your life for the sake of humanity, to see the need for unity in our church, to bring back respect to the church, to answer God’s call to each one of us to be a witness to the world which is in agony from sin. It was a call to conversion and to purposing embark on that journey of faith the inevitably leads to God.
In all of this, I have never experienced anything protestant or cultish or heretical. Anyone that knows me will tell you that I am not stupid, nor impressionable, ill-informed about my faith, or easily persuaded against my beliefs. They will tell you I would be the last person to fall for the tactics of a cult.

Whatever teachings someone else on this forum says are being taught, I cannot say. I can only say I have not witnessed nor heard anthing of the sort. Sure, there are fallen away Catholics coming back to the church through this movement. That should be *good * news! But there are also some very intelligent, educated, successful business people who are joining and they stay for the same reason that I stay. Because they see and experience and believe that the Holy Spirit has his hand in it and that it is an authentic effort to bring people back to the true faith of the Roman Catholic Church. Are there going to be bad apples, mistakes, misinformation, power-seekers, misguided communities? Probably. But we already have all of that in the Church already and that does not change to fact that it is still the authentic Catholic church.

As for procedures, rules, practices of this group…all of it has been scrutinized by the church and the liturgical practices approved by valid Church authorities who have the authority to make these decisions. I personally saw a very good photograph of our new pope Benedict at a Neo-Catechumenal Mass. This photo was taken before he became pope but it was very distinctly a Mass of the Way [which have identifying features about the way they arrange the alter area]. If this pope is OK with the practice of the Mass in the Neo-Catechuminal Way, then so am I. And as long as I see the Holy Spirit at work in mine and others lives as I’ve never seen it before, I will stay with the Way.
 
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Christinaj:
This photo was taken before he became pope but it was very distinctly a Mass of the Way [which have identifying features about the way they arrange the alter area].
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Can you elaborate on this? How is their Mass distinctive from others and why?
 
Dave, I will reply at the end of the day. I posted at lunch and am back to work. Thanks
 
Dave,

To respond to your question, here is the description of the physical arrangement for the Mass. I hope you understand that the distinction I made between our Catechumenal Mass and any other Catholic Mass lies in this physical arrangement of chairs, flowers, candles etc, not in the Mass itself. While there are similarities to a normal alter setup, there are also some added features to this arrangement such as flowers on the alter.

To prepare for our Mass on Saturday night, we arrange the seating of the congregation on 3 sides of the alter. Behind the alter is placed the seat for the Priest, the pulpit with flowers beneath it, the Crucifix and a picture of Mary holding Jesus –also with flowers at the base. The normal colors of the liturgical year are used to cover the pulpit as at any Mass.

Flowers are arranged around the front edge of the alter and 2 candles sit on the 2 side edges about half way down toward the back of the alter so that there is nothing to obstruct the priest at the back side of the alter.

I do not know if this arrangement is similar to Masses said elsewhere in the Catholic church. I just know that I have not seen it anywhere else [that is to say the exact arrangement of the seats, and flowers, candles and all].

The photo of the Pope behind the alter clearly showed this arrangement of items around and on the alter. I’m not positive, but if my memory serves me correctly, there were other priests, bishops or a cardinal in attendance. It looked like the Pope, who I think was ‘Cardinal’ Ratzinger at the time, was saying the Mass. I realize that this is not proof that it was a Neo-Catecumenal Mass but it strongly resembled one.

What I can do is try to locate the photo and get it posted for you. I’ll see what I can do.

Hope this helps
 
Thanks, Christinaj. What I love about the Latin Rite, is that it is the same (or at least it is supposed to be the same) all over the world. “Distinctive” had me worried their for a moment.

In my brother’s diocese, for example, they pour the consecrated blood from glass flagons into the chalices, contrary to U.S. liturgical norms and the instructions of the Holy See. We certainly have far to much of this kind of “distinctive” liturgy in our Holy Church now-a-days.
 
In post #39 txancete (who joined Catholic Answers forum on Sept. 28, 2005) accused me of being a “fool” and of “telling lies” and that I "know that I am telling lies - and as evidence thereof provided seven “quotes” which he (unsuccesfully, in my opinion) attempted to refute.

He did **not **provide the sources of the quotes, but used them to make his false accusations against me. Well, of course, they did NOT come from my pen, but were extracts from Matteo-01’s, post #06.

No retraction or apology from txancete - but the sudden appearance of Christinaj (who joined the Catholic Answers Forum on Sept. 29 in support of the pro-Neocatechumenate.

Somewhat paradoxically, she makes serveral claims, including “My father taught us to know our faith so well that I could smell heresy from a mile away,” “I’m not easily persuaded, fooled…,” “I was never pressured…never any indoctrination - ever…,” “I have never experienced anything protestant or cultish or heretical. Anyone who knows me will tell you that I am not stupid, nor impressionable, ill-informed about my faith, or easily persuaded against my beliefs. They will tell you that I would be the last person to fall for the tactics of a cult.”

Which, if true, is nice and peachy for you!

However, it runs somewhat contrary to the Neo-catechical catechists whom I have personally encountered her in Lilydale, Australia - as set ou in jloughnan.tripod.com/neocatra.htm and the ten appendices - where each one of them “confessed” to the audience that they had individually been quite sinful and nasty people (fornicators, unfaithful to their spouses for varying periods of time (adulterers), thieves, and rogues of differing types.

It is obvious that you have not read the supplied material, so I will direct you to just one of the appendices jloughnan.tripod.com/append10.htm
“An Experience of The Neo-Catechumenal Way” by D.J.Redfern who was an adherent to “The Way” for five years (including one year in the Neocat seminary in Australia, and who first published the article in Christian Order Nov. 1997.

Wouls you kindly read the article and advise whether the current Neocatechumenal Mass is still performed in approximately the same manner - with particular attention to the omission of the Gloria, Creed, Lavabo, Orate frates, Agnes Dei, and whether the “bread” is still of a crumbly nature. Furthermore, would you say that, generally speaking, Mr Redfern has accurately described the Neocatechumenal Mass as it is performed today?

Do you deny the necessity of the redemptive sacrifice of Our Lord, Jesus Christ on the Cross? Do you deny that the Mass is a propitiary sacrifice?
 
My own small personal experiences with the Neocatechumenal Way:

When the Italian missionaries first came to my American parish, I went to one of their catechism nights just out of curiosity. The advertising flyer sounded rather pie-in-the-sky, promising you a happy feel-good cure-all type of thing if you were feeling blue about the troubles in your life. The very first night, I realized the Neocatechumenal Way was not for me, for two reasons.

A) They placed a lot of emphasis on being there for adult Catholics unfamiliar with their faith, and that just doesn’t describe me, since my family background is such that I’ve voraciously done intense Catholic spiritual reading even as a child.

B) They suggested that we keep repeating “Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me” like it was a mantra. For example, in the car all the way to work. Now I can see praying the Rosary while driving to work, but repeating a single phrase for maybe hundreds of times just didn’t feel right when it came to my prayer life.

There have also been two occasions where I’ve gone to the Perpetual Adoration Chapel to make a quiet visit to the Blessed Sacrament, only to find anything but the peace and quiet I’d been looking for because the Neocatechumenal Way were occupying the chapel, the tabernacle door was closed, and the closest you could come to contemplation was to offer up the noisy environment as sacrificial prayer.

The first occasion, they were offering one of their private Masses to ring in the New Year. The Mass must have started about 11:00 p.m., because when I arrived shortly before midnight was right before Communion. I was invited to join the group by sitting in their circle, and found it most embarrassing when I was offered Communion in the hand while sitting down, because I had to publicly refuse Communion, in front of everyone, at close quarters, as we were all practically sitting on top of each other. (Since I hadn’t known I’d be attending Mass, I hadn’t made an hour-long fast before Communion.)

The second occasion was a Wednesday evening, stopping by the chapel for quiet prayer after an evening class at the university had ended. This was their Liturgy of the Word where they had a theme that they all spoke on after various Bible readings and Israeli-sounding songs to the sound of rattles and guitars. Now I enjoy hearing passages read from both the Old and the New Testament. What made me wonder was how they could shut up the Blessed Sacrament behind tabernacle doors so that they could focus on describing their intimate feelings about how great (pious) they and their lives had become since joining their group. One man in particular did this, on the verge of tears. The others in the group seemed to enjoy emphasizing that they had put in time preparing a talk for the theme.

If they had read Bible passages aloud and then wanted to sing and pray aloud such prayers as the Rosary or the Divine Mercy Chaplet, it would have been an experience where we were all together as a community focusing on Christ, in which case, I would have been happy enough to have the chapel silence broken. But for people to pat themselves and the members of their clique on the back only a few feet away from the Real Presence of Our Lord in the Holy Eucharist … well, yes they had permission to be there, but couldn’t they have chosen a different location?

Meanwhile, I wasn’t the only one who had come in for a simple visit to the Blessed Sacrament and gotten something different than what I’d bargained for … a man came in a bit after me. He seemingly needed to be coaxed into coming in, sitting down, and listening to the Liturgy of the Word … possibly he’d been about to leave, discouraged that here he’d come to be in the welcoming presence of Jesus and now felt as though he might be intruding on some group’s private service. When I was taken notice of at that point and invited to sit up front with everyone, I bowed out with the very real reason of it being 9:30 p.m. and not having had dinner yet, because people kept getting up and talking, and there didn’t seem to be a very good time to leave without seeming impolite by walking out on one speaker or another giving an intimate from-the-heart witness that they had worked so hard on for their theme.

~~ the phoenix
 
Sean O L:
No retraction or apology from txancete - but the sudden appearance of Christinaj (who joined the Catholic Answers Forum on Sept. 29 in support of the pro-Neocatechumenate…

Also…
Which, if true, is nice and peachy for you!

It is obvious that you have not read the supplied material,
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Sean, It is a complete coincidence that I came into this forum when txancete came in. I have no idea who he/she is. The discussion was brought to my attention by another participant who has since dropped out.

There were a lot of links provided and I added them all to my browser at work to read at lunch the first day. I did not read them before my first response because I was anxious to offer some description of my experience in the Way; I did not come onto the forum to argue or debate. Since you asked, I will take time to read the link you mentioned and reply back to you. Please understand this: I am not, nor did I claim to be, an expert on the Way. I attended a catechism at my parish, joined locally 2 years ago, and attended WYD activities with a larger group from NY. I simply wanted to convey to your readers my own experience since I have joined. This was a direct response to Dave’s question in the title. I gave you my background information to try to dispel any notions -in advance - that I was brainwashed or easily impressionable. That was my only purpose in mentioning my past. I was not trying to impress. I also wanted to convey to this group that I personally had not seen any evidence of heresy or evil control etc. It may exist elsewhere, but I have not seen it.
So please be patient because I have already begun reading some of the links. I intend to read them all because I would like to know exactly what it is that I have joined. I am open to listening to all perspectives and to analyze all experiences of others. I do want to assure you of one thing about me when you make assessments of my contributions here. I will never intentionally abandon the one true Catholic Church. I will never contort or reject officially taught doctrine, nor embrace heretical teachings. But, having said this, I also am no theologian, Catholic historian, Canon lawyer etc. I am an ordinary Catholic, well-taught on the official Catholic catechism but no expert. So please don’t expect theological debate from me because I don’t feel qualified to debate. I offered information as honestly and simply as I could about what I saw and what I experienced. You can accept it or reject it. You are free to do so as you please. I would also like to thank everyone who provided links to more information because I think it is a good idea for me to examine the entire organization in detail. It sounds like there is a lot to learn and a lot to look into. Thanks again.
 
To the Phoenix

It sounds to me that someone has used poor judgement to allow the Way to meet in the Chapel for the Adoration of the Sacrament. I would be upset too if I came to adore Christ and encountered a noisy gathering instead. My approach to activities in the Church such as the Way and the charismatic groups etc is that you can’t really judge the value or validity of the movement itself by the way people in the group conduct themselves. There are hords of protestant Christians who refuse to enter the Catholic Church because of the way Catholics conduct themselves. That doesn’t mean the Catholic faith is not the true faith. We are all sinners; we are all imperfect, and inside the Way, you are going to encounter all sorts of people…educated/ignorant, polite/rude, doctrinally true/heretics just as you find these same people in the Church as a whole. That is due to the universal nature of our Church, which does not exclude someone who is ignorant, rude, uninformed or just plain wrong. I place all my trust & obedience about this group on the Church itself and those officials who are examining this movement. Christ promised that the Holy Spirit would guide our Church to the very end and I am going to assume that ultimately, He will guide the Church about this movement. If it is false, the Church will uncover it and I will accept their judgment about it.
 
Dear Christinaj,

Nice to meet you. 🙂

Thank you for understanding where I’m coming from about going to make a quiet visit at an Adoration Chapel only to unexpectedly walk in on an event of the Neocatechumenal Way such as I’ve already described.

It’s cool that you’re checking out the organization. I’ve checked it out as well. At one point I was curious about joining it as a way of getting involved in the parish and fellowshipping. However, it is now becoming clearer that my first instincts were right and that the Neocatechumenal Way is not for me. Instead, I still need to pray, search, and discern where I might best belong when it comes to which parish and which if any group in a parish.

~~ the phoenix
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Christinaj:
So please be patient because I have already begun reading some of the links. I intend to read them all because I would like to know exactly what it is that I have joined. I am open to listening to all perspectives and to analyze all experiences of others. I do want to assure you of one thing about me when you make assessments of my contributions here. I will never intentionally abandon the one true Catholic Church. I will never contort or reject officially taught doctrine, nor embrace heretical teachings. But, having said this, I also am no theologian, Catholic historian, Canon lawyer etc. I am an ordinary Catholic, well-taught on the official Catholic catechism but no expert. So please don’t expect theological debate from me because I don’t feel qualified to debate. I offered information as honestly and simply as I could about what I saw and what I experienced. You can accept it or reject it. You are free to do so as you please. I would also like to thank everyone who provided links to more information because I think it is a good idea for me to examine the entire organization in detail. It sounds like there is a lot to learn and a lot to look into. Thanks again.
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i am 17 years old and in the Neocatechumenal Way in Great Britain…
My family have been in the way for around 30 years now and i must say that i would not be here without it…
i went on the pilgrimage to cologne with around 300 brothers from the Neocatechumenal Way…I went there basically to get away from the stresses and distractions my life was throwin at me…i was gettin involved with drugs, sex, night clubbin… i thought it would be a good time to actually go and listen,
Noen of the readings spoke to me until one day on the coach my name was called out of a hat to go up and be given a gospel by the itinerant catechists…i was very nervous about speaking in front of the whole coach…it was the first sentence that really struck me…“Go home and tell of your experience”…all my life i had lied to my friends and not told them about god…this really gave me courage…and now i can tell people freely about god…since then my frend has joined my community and will be going to a catechises as soon as he can…i even told people i hardly new at college about my experience on the pilgrimage…i have made soo many friends around the world through this and i cannot thank God enough…oh yeh and from the Uk 5 boys stood up and 6 girls…we also sang songs to a jewish family on the euro tunnel home…overall i had a wonderfull time…thanks for reading… God Bless
 
The name itself sounds heterodox to me enough to make me stay away… What is wrong with just joining a normal organization like say the Knights of Columbus or any other number of orthodox Orders? I could be wrong but who knows… I have never even heard of this organization.
 
Does anyone here have any experiences with the Neocatechumenal Way? I have heard a little about them, mostly that they are disobedient to the Magisterium, but are still a valid society, (if that’s the right word) in the eyes of the Church.

Have they broken with all the traditions and started their own interpretation of being Catholic? How exactly are they disobedient?

I’m also wondering if they got a good start, with pure intentions, and then became the apparent controversial group that I keep hearing we are warned to stay away from today.

I have looked them up on the Internet, but would like to hear (name removed by moderator)ut from people who know about them.
 
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