What do you think of the Neocatechumenal Way?

  • Thread starter Thread starter itsjustdave1988
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
mcnsarticles.blogspot.com/2003_08_24_mcnsarticles_archive.html

¶ Monday, August 25, 2003
VICTIM’S STORY.

634 words
8 November 1996
The Guardian
5
English
(c) 1996

“Initially I was very taken by it all. It gave me a reason for living and I even volunteered to become a priest and entered a seminary. The sermons started off quite mellow - “God loves you” sort of thing - but the longer you’re in, the harder they would get. The catechists - leaders - would pick on people in the group and ask them questions about contraception, masturbation and their sexuality,” said Mr Woodhouse, who was 18 when he first joined.

"They built up a real dependency culture within the group and on the catechists and priest. There was a kind of brainwashing with lots of repetitive guitar music and using the group dynamics of throwing people together and making them see as much of each other as possible.
“There was a big emphasis on money and sex; these were the two sticks they used to beat us with …”

… Every few years the group has to undergo a “scrutiny” in which everyone confesses their sins in public.

"We were told to prepare a list of our sins which we would have to confess publicly. People’s names were pulled out of a hat and for about an hour individuals were questioned by a team of at least five catechists. ------

"It was cringing, listening to other people’s confessions. The most amazing things came up. People were asked outright whether they were homosexual, how often they masturbated and whether they thought of men or women when they masturbated…

“The NC preys on vulnerable Catholics - ex-prostitutes, people who have been sexually abused as children, homosexuals, even former convicts.”
 
mcnsarticles.blogspot.com/2003_08_24_mcnsarticles_archive.html

By Madeleine Bunting.
2 March 1996
The Guardian
(c) 1996

The idea is that you have to go down to understand your full unworthiness, in order to understand the love of God. This is standard teaching, but the NC took it upon itself to force that on you. Systematically, they began to destroy our dignity and self-worth.’ …

… The idea is that you cannot properly call yourself a Christian until you have passed the first stages. Even priests and strong, cradle Catholics are described as `pagans’, with the effect that everything before, or outside, the NC is spiritually invalidated.

Each community was isolated from others,' Miranda recalls. Those further along The Way never spoke about their experiences. We were taught to be secret - it was the disciplinum arcani, or the law of secrecy. -----------------Then, because the Church is the body of Christ, members were told to obey the Church - standard Catholic doctrine. But then, they extended the idea to claim that the NC was the Church, so members had to obey the NC.

…`Turning the other cheek’ is a dominant theme of the NC and can be taken to literal and horrifying lengths; one woman who was being beaten by her husband was told to submit. …

One girl had had a lot of trouble with her family; she had had a baby and they told her she was the type to kill it. Everything that had happened in your life was twisted to put the blame on you. For example, the son of an alcoholic mother was told that he had killed her ... I felt spiritually abused and ashamed, embarrassed and guilty about it.' The panel judges whether the community as a whole has passed’ or failed' the Scrutiny. Most communities fail and have to repeat the process the following year. Mark's community failed and was told there was a lot more to come out’.
 
My own small personal experiences with the Neocatechumenal Way:

When the Italian missionaries first came to my American parish [NOTE: Not my current parish!], I went to one of their catechism nights just out of curiosity. The advertising flyer sounded rather pie-in-the-sky, promising you a happy feel-good cure-all type of thing if you were feeling blue about the troubles in your life. The very first night, I realized the Neocatechumenal Way was not for me, for two reasons.

A) They placed a lot of emphasis on being there for adult Catholics unfamiliar with their faith, and that just doesn’t describe me, since my family background is such that I’ve voraciously done intense Catholic spiritual reading even as a child.

B) They suggested that we keep repeating “Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me” like it was a mantra. For example, in the car all the way to work. Now I can see praying the Rosary while driving to work, but repeating a single phrase for maybe hundreds of times personally just didn’t feel right when it came to my prayer life.

There have also been two occasions where I’ve gone to the Perpetual Adoration Chapel to make a quiet visit to the Blessed Sacrament, only to find anything but the peace and quiet I’d been looking for because the Neocatechumenal Way were occupying the chapel, the tabernacle door was closed, and the closest you could come to contemplation was to offer up the noisy environment as sacrificial prayer.

The first occasion, they were offering one of their private Masses to ring in the New Year. The Mass must have started about 11:00 p.m., because when I arrived shortly before midnight was right before Communion. I was invited to join the group by sitting in their circle, and found it most embarrassing when I was offered Communion in the hand while sitting down, because I had to publicly refuse Communion, in front of everyone, at close quarters, as we were all practically sitting on top of each other. (Since I hadn’t known I’d be attending Mass, I hadn’t made an hour-long fast before Communion.)

The second occasion was a Wednesday evening, stopping by the chapel for quiet prayer after an evening class at the university had ended. This was their Liturgy of the Word where they had a theme that they all spoke on after various Bible readings and Israeli-sounding songs to the sound of rattles and guitars. Now I enjoy hearing passages read from both the Old and the New Testament. What made me wonder was how they could shut up the Blessed Sacrament behind tabernacle doors so that they could focus on describing their intimate feelings about how great (pious) they and their lives had become since joining their group. One man in particular did this, on the verge of tears. The others in the group seemed to enjoy emphasizing that they had put in time preparing a talk for the theme.

If they had read Bible passages aloud and then wanted to sing and pray aloud such prayers as the Rosary or the Divine Mercy Chaplet, it would have been an experience where we were all together as a community focusing on Christ, in which case, I would have been happy enough to have the chapel silence broken. But for people to pat themselves and the members of their clique on the back only a few feet away from the Real Presence of Our Lord in the Holy Eucharist … well, yes they had permission to be there, but couldn’t they have chosen a different location?

Meanwhile, I wasn’t the only one who had come in for a simple visit to the Blessed Sacrament and gotten something different than what I’d bargained for … a man came in a bit after me. He seemingly needed to be coaxed into coming in, sitting down, and listening to the Liturgy of the Word … possibly he’d been about to leave, discouraged that here he’d come to be in the welcoming presence of Jesus and now felt as though he might be intruding on some group’s private service. When I was taken notice of at that point and invited to sit up front with everyone, I bowed out with the very real reason of it being 9:30 p.m. and not having had dinner yet, because people kept getting up and talking, and there didn’t seem to be a very good time to leave without seeming impolite by walking out on one speaker or another giving an intimate from-the-heart witness that they had worked so hard on for their theme.

~~ the phoenix
 
nightengale said:
Hi, after several attempts - I finally made it. Just one comment for the moment. I was in the neo-catechumenate for 30 years and finally left last year. This is causing great stress within the family as other members still involved.

I wish them all well and do not regret being in it all these years but over the years I began to feel very uneasy especially when attending the Eucharist. Their explanations (catechists) as to why things are done differently do not alter. They believe totally in everything that comes from Kiko, whereas I was always questioning. Now they seem to think that everything has been settled because, during the recent meeting in June with Kiko and the Holy Father, apparently it has been agreed that they can now stand for receiving Holy Communion!

There is so much good in the Way and I would hate to see it ended, however, I just wish they would get in line with the true Catholic Church and then there would be so many more rich fruit. God bless them all but Our Blessed Mother is leading me to more Adoration and the Rosary and more Marian devotions. God bless you all. Nightengale
Click to expand...
Hi there…I’m praying for you, that you are wrapped in peace while you continue your journey away from the NCW. I agree that there are some good fruits, but they are so small in comparison to the negatives.

I agree that they need to be more in alignment with the Church.

I never joined the NCW. There are too many questions with their theology, but what really repelled me was the arrogance that the catechists and responsibles display. And there is too much of a pattern of double-talk and secrecy.

The Church really needs to be in the light of day!

I’m praying for you and your family and friends!
 
Here’s a link to a video that shows the dance the NCW folks do at the end of their celebration. You will see the different worship space configuration, with the ambo directly in front of the presider’s chair. The large square table in the middle is the “altar.”

youtube.com/watch?v=5JwEmqcOObU
 
Here are more videos. This is of a celebration in Spanish, but it looks like it could be in the United States. These apparently were taken during an Easter Vigil celebration. Keep in mind that this vigil would be held AFTER the normal parish Easter Vigil. For some reason, it’s important to have their own, separate celebration.

Eucharistic prayer/institution narrative: youtube.com/watch?v=y1XumiXGU2g (no kneeling during THIS elevation!)

Elevation of the cup, Memorial Acclamation, etc.: youtube.com/watch?v=msZiy-bgHSM (they’re saying Maranatha even though it’s the Easter Vigil)

Someone had the presence of mind to not film the seated Communion distribution.

More of the dance closer: youtube.com/watch?v=iDJTpzWfw1Q

I should add that for some reason, they cannot have their celebration without that u-shaped configuration around the table in the center.
 
Frankly, I think that it’s time that all of the New Movements – the Neo-Catechumenate, the Sant’Egidio, even the Focolare and the Charismatic Movement – be made to pass a second and even more rigorous wave of scrutinies by Catholic theologians of outstanding learning, unquestionable doctrinal orthodoxy and fidelity to the traditional spiritual wisdom of the saints. It seems that many-- not all, but many – of these New Movements have spread and even received quasi-official sanction precisely because too many pastors have been negligent in their duties.

I think it fortunate that, in the aftermath of Summorum Pontificum, more and more Catholics are becoming aware of Catholic tradition – not just traditional liturgy, but also traditional spirituality. As more and more Catholics rediscover the genuine and undiluted wisdom and austerity of the saints, I am sure that there will be a greater clamor for the teachings of many of the New Movements to be examined (or re-examined) at greater length.

In the course of this thread, the question has been asked why, if indeed the Way is heretical, then why have so many bishops and even cardinals supported it. Well, the fact remains that since the 1960’s, too many bishops have winked at or looked the other way whenever heresy is concerned. Let’s not mince words here, although I acknowledge that not all bishops who have supported the Way can be justly accused of such negligence.

However, I also have personal experience to draw from – not personal experience of the Way, but of another new movement, the Filipino Catholic charismatic movement Couples for Christ, which is currently experiencing an acrimonious break-up. In my own experience of Couples for Christ prior to the split, what struck me the most was the way so many priests and even bishops simply took their word that they are orthodox Catholics, without really bothering to check whether the doctrine taught is correct. The result was that many wrong and unorthodox teachings – many of these being nothing more than unabashed Pentecostalism – took root, while so many members remained deprived even of the most basic catechesis. It is only now, in the aftermath of a painful schism in the group, that the leaders have begun instituting basic catechism.

I suspect that the same thing has happened with the Way – too many clergy were satisfied to just look at the apparent good fruits of this movement to even bother to verify the orthodoxy of its core teachings and practices. Perhaps some of these clergy are also tired of hearing nothing but bad news from all sides, and wanted to see this movement as unalloyed good news.
 
nightengale said:
There is so much good in the Way and I would hate to see it ended, however, I just wish they would get in line with the true Catholic Church and then there would be so many more rich fruit.
Click to expand...
This about sums up my feelings on this subject. I saw for myself the “good” that has come out of the Way. I saw hundreds of people (on my trip with them) on fire for their faith. At the Way meeting in Germany, I saw hundreds and hundreds of teenage boys come up to the stage when they asked all to come up who were considering a vocation to the priesthood. They are doing something right. Those kids were involved in their faith and excited about it. I heard a lot of their stories of conversion and many of them had literally been pulled from the brinks of death by the Way and put on the right path. I saw many, many TEENS actually evangalizing on the streets to complete strangers right smack in the middle of the major cities.

I would like to see some changes made, to see them brought more in line with the Church. I really think this will happen. As I understand, the Vatican is in the process of reviewing this movement and the leaders of the Way have made it clear that they will be obedient to whatever the Pope tells them to do. I am in a “wait and see” mode. If they follow through and obey the Pope, I see no reason for anybody here to bash the movement at that point.
 
I found a quick list of some of the heresies contained in the “catechist” manual used by the NCW. Since we’re in the apologetics thread, I would invite more learned brains to comment on these.

Source: Fr. Enrico Zoffoli, Passionist Priest, geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/6919/E_NCGEN.htm

1 - Sin: man cannot avoid committing it, in the same way as he can neither accomplish good nor acquire merits for himself;
  • conversion is possible only as recognition, by everyone, of their own moral poverty, not as a determined wish to correct one’s faults which sanctity tends to realise;
  • sin cannot offend God, and man does not incur the duty to expiate it by satisfying the requirements of his justice.
2 - Redemption: Jesus has not brought this about by liberating man from his faults and reconciling him with God;
  • the passion and death of Christ has not been a true sacrifice offered to the Father in order to remedy sin and to redeem man;
  • Jesus saved the world by virtue of his Resurrection: in order to enjoy the fruits of his work it is enough to confess to be sinners and to believe in the power of the risen Christ.
3 - The Church was not founded by Christ as his only Sheepfold: it is also possible to save oneself by following other religions;
  • the Church is not a juridical and hierarchical society, but a spiritual, charismatic one;
  • in it there is not found a priesthood derived from the sacrament of the Order - as it is sufficient to have the Baptism which, incorporating all the believers in Christ, makes them participants of his priestly dignity.
4 - The Mass is not a “sacrifice”: the Church, at the altar, does not offer to God any Victim;
  • in place of the altar, there is nothing but the table, which in the Eucharist allows a festive party to be celebrated among brothers united by the same faith in the Resurrection;
  • the consecrated bread and wine are only the symbol of the presence of the risen Christ which unites the fellow-guests by communicating their own spirit, thus making them participants in his triumph over death;
  • the Mass, thus conceived, is not celebrated by the priest, but by the Assembly, from which “springs the Eucharist”.
5 - Eucharistic worship does not have any meaning, it negates the true, real and substantial presence of Christ under the sacramental species. Acts of faith such as genuflections before the Tabernacle, frequent Communions, hours of adoration, benedictions, processions, congresses, etc are not therefore justified.

6 - The Confession is reduced to the sacrament of the Baptism:

their ?] distinction does not go back to the primitive Church:
  • The Church “gestates and leads to the conversion”. “The important thing is not the absolution” of the priest, because the value of the confession is essentially its community and ecclesial nature;
  • in the “passages” and in the “scrutinies” the acknowledgement of one’s transgressions, including the serious ones, is public, as can still be the case during the “redditio” ?].
(to be continued)
 
(continued from previous)

7 - The Christian life, as a voluntary effort of self-discipline, and therefore an exercise and progress in virtue, is an illusion;
  • everyone remains intrinsically a sinner, incapable of obtaining true justice as a perfection of the love of God and of one’s fellow creatures;
  • on the other hand, Jesus has not been presented to anyone as a “model” to be imitated;
  • He has commanded that we should actually hate our parents, brothers, relatives etc, not just, if necessary, to be prepared to prefer Him to them;
  • in order to follow Christ, we need to sell our own goods; but, once this renunciation has been accomplished, it is permissible to acquire others and to enjoy all the pleasures of life. “Poverty” - as understood by St Francis - is inspireed by the “natural religion”, and was also practised by the pagans: it is not a Christian virtue;
  • Jesus, having suffered for us, has made our sufferings superfluous, therefore the austerities of the ascetics, the slow martyrdom of the Saints and the religious life itself, involving the effective practice of the evangelical counsels, are not justifiable;
  • eternal salvation is offered freely to all by the mercy of God, who forgives everything. Hell should not exist, nor should one speak of Purgatory, of prayers and of indulgences for the dead.
8 - The history of the true Church founded by Christ comes to an end with the Pax Constantinia and does not resume its course until the 20th century with the Second Vatican Council, having remained frozen for about 1,600 years …;
  • in this long interval, the exercise of the triple power of the hierarchical Church (teaching, sanctification, guidance) would have been improper, illegitimate …; and in particular the Council of Trent would be responsible for the paralysis of the Church, determined to fix formulae of faith, liturgical rites, disciplinary rules …,
  • the interpretation of the Word of God is not reserved for the Hierarchy, it is possible for all believers: “the Bible is explained by itself”. This freedom of examination in the exegesis excludes the ecclesiastical Teaching, the tradition of the Elders and the doctrine of the theologies.
 
verdigirl said:
(continued from previous)

7 - The Christian life, as a voluntary effort of self-discipline, and therefore an exercise and progress in virtue, is an illusion;
  • everyone remains intrinsically a sinner, incapable of obtaining true justice as a perfection of the love of God and of one’s fellow creatures;
  • on the other hand, Jesus has not been presented to anyone as a “model” to be imitated;
  • He has commanded that we should actually hate our parents, brothers, relatives etc, not just, if necessary, to be prepared to prefer Him to them;
  • in order to follow Christ, we need to sell our own goods; but, once this renunciation has been accomplished, it is permissible to acquire others and to enjoy all the pleasures of life. “Poverty” - as understood by St Francis - is inspireed by the “natural religion”, and was also practised by the pagans: it is not a Christian virtue;
  • Jesus, having suffered for us, has made our sufferings superfluous, therefore the austerities of the ascetics, the slow martyrdom of the Saints and the religious life itself, involving the effective practice of the evangelical counsels, are not justifiable;
  • eternal salvation is offered freely to all by the mercy of God, who forgives everything. Hell should not exist, nor should one speak of Purgatory, of prayers and of indulgences for the dead.
8 - The history of the true Church founded by Christ comes to an end with the Pax Constantinia and does not resume its course until the 20th century with the Second Vatican Council, having remained frozen for about 1,600 years …;
  • in this long interval, the exercise of the triple power of the hierarchical Church (teaching, sanctification, guidance) would have been improper, illegitimate …; and in particular the Council of Trent would be responsible for the paralysis of the Church, determined to fix formulae of faith, liturgical rites, disciplinary rules …,
  • the interpretation of the Word of God is not reserved for the Hierarchy, it is possible for all believers: “the Bible is explained by itself”. This freedom of examination in the exegesis excludes the ecclesiastical Teaching, the tradition of the Elders and the doctrine of the theologies.
Click to expand...
HAH ? :confused: :bigyikes: :ehh: :hypno: :doh2: :dts:

And we don’t call this heresy??? What’s up with all these foreign movements invading the Church???
 
passioncrosslov said:
HAH ? :confused: :bigyikes: :ehh: :hypno: :doh2: :dts:

And we don’t call this heresy??? What’s up with all these foreign movements invading the Church???
Click to expand...
Exactly. Be ready to defend the Faith when these people come to your parish!
 
Phil_Neo_Cat_uk said:
i am 17 years old and in the Neocatechumenal Way in Great Britain…
My family have been in the way for around 30 years now and i must say that i would not be here without it…
Click to expand...
Well yes i as well am in the Neo catechumenal way but in California. im 19 years old and have been in the way with my family since i was 2 years old. It is true that with out it…i dont know where i would be especially at my age with the world attacking me at every corner. As for WYD, I as well as my sister (who went to jerusalem) went to Canada, Germany and God willing to Australia in 2008. every pilgrimage is a spiritual one. and i look foward to it!! Not to forget that the guy i meet from the community in NY a year later was and still is my boyfriend…What a blessing!!! So phil do u plan on going to Australia???

P.S. And to the brother that left the Neo catechumenal Way after 30 years…i say… courage! Animo! And you and your family are in our prayers. because to walk alone is very difficult. ciao

La Paz
 
What is the Neocatechumenal Way you ask?..Its basically something the majority of you have never been to and know nothing about. and the ones that have been in it and left because they got scandalized or offended are just people of little faith and understandment.

La Paz
 
Another question about the Neocatechumenal Way…I’m getting ready to move in the next couple months and I’ve been researching Churches in the area. One of the ones that I’m looking at has Neocatechumenal Way listed on the calandar. Does it mean that the Church is involved in it or that it loans out the Church space for it?

From what I’ve read, the Neocatechumenal Way is not something that would interest me (no offense to those that enjoy it). So, I’m just wondering if I should look for a different Church in the area?

Thank you.
 
Dayenu_87 said:
P.S. And to the brother that left the Neo catechumenal Way after 30 years…i say… courage! Animo! And you and your family are in our prayers. because to walk alone is very difficult. ciao

La Paz
Click to expand...
Oh! So, if somebody leaves the Way, then that person is walking alone! Perhaps it hasn’t occured to you that, so long as a person is in the state of grace and is in good standing with the Church, then he / she is never alone.

You just confirmed what so many have been saying all along: those in the Way see themselves as some sort of elite, and that you see those outside the Way as being somehow in darkness.

Take care where your thoughts are going, brother.
 
Dayenu_87 said:
P.S. And to the brother that left the Neo catechumenal Way after 30 years…i say… courage! Animo! And you and your family are in our prayers.** because to walk alone is very difficult.** ciao

La Paz
Click to expand...
This is an example of the Church with the Church mentality. Anyone Not in the Neocatechumenal Way —walks alone.
 
Carlos_Palad said:
Oh! So, if somebody leaves the Way, then that person is walking alone!=QUOTE]

Perhaps it just hasnt occured to you and your brainwashed minds about the neo catechumenal way that i wasnt speaking about him!!! i was saying about his wife and family. because it is hard to do ANYTHING alone when both spouses are not involved in something and im not just talking about the neocatechumenal way it could be from anything that comes from the world. the support from one another means a great deal. but then again perhaps you wouldnt understand like u did not understand my comment.

Could you be any more ignorant??? [F.Y.I: thats not the neocatechumenal way opinion, just mine]]
Click to expand...
 
Melo said:
Another question about the Neocatechumenal Way…I’m getting ready to move in the next couple months and I’ve been researching Churches in the area. One of the ones that I’m looking at has Neocatechumenal Way listed on the calandar. Does it mean that the Church is involved in it or that it loans out the Church space for it?

From what I’ve read, the Neocatechumenal Way is not something that would interest me (no offense to those that enjoy it). So, I’m just wondering if I should look for a different Church in the area?

Thank you.
Click to expand...
Does it really matter? you act like its a disease… if you dont want to go to it then dont… its not like they are going to force you in it. and you guys are soooooooooooooooo for the church then any church is valid weither it have knights of columbus, rcia, neocatechumenal way, guadalupanas… doesnt matter the church is the church. so why be so threaten by one group. your main concern should be your faith not what group is there.

la paz
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top