What does it mean to abide "in Christ?"

[moondweller]

SHW:

Colossians 1:24 “I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church,”

How do we “fill up in our flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ?”

Paul didn’t say you had to fill up anything. He was speaking of himself, and in respect to the ministry commissioned to him by Christ, not in respect to Christ’s work on the cross and salvation. This he states clearly is entered into only “by grace through faith…not as a result of works” (Eph. 2:8-9).

 

[moondweller]

AmbroseSJ:

You don’t see how you just contradicted yourself??

According to you the text and context lets the reader know how to interpret. Then in the very next line you say because I (meaning the Catholic Church) have interpreted Scripture based on the text and context, we are robbing the Holy Spirit by our imaginings!!!

What I said was that the text itself lets the reader know when the Author is speaking literally or not. The reader cannot impose a nonliteral interpretation at whim. For instance, when Jesus said in the upper room, “Take, eat; this is My body,” the reader should know immediately that He wasn’t speaking literally since He was reclined at table in His body. Hence, in context, the bread represented His body that would be given over to sacrifice. Same with the wine representing His blood that would be shed on the cross for the inaugurating of the new covenant. They were to eat and drink the bread and wine in “remembrance” (in recognition) of Him (i.e., His sacrificial work done on their behalf).

He didn’t say, “This has become My body.” Nor does it say anywhere in the text that He gives them the power, and others after them, to make such miraculous transformations. All this you read INTO the text.

At least OUR DOCTRINE claims to be infallible, does yours?? If so, show me where. If not, why do you act as if it is??

Actually, those who make your doctrines are the one’s who claim infallibility. It’s you who believe their claim. I simply believe what the inerrant Scriptures teach in doctrinal form.

 

[moondweller]

You are not St. Paul.

And I notice, you just set up yet another strawman, so that if someone argues against you, then they are arguing against the crucifixion. Wrong. You don’t have that authority, nice try.

But the Word of God does. My arguments are from the written Word of God.

 

[fbl9]

Paul didn’t say you had to fill up anything. He was speaking of himself, and in respect to the ministry commissioned to him by Christ, not in respect to Christ’s work on the cross and salvation. This he states clearly is entered into only “by grace through faith…not as a result of works” (Eph. 2:8-9).

this points out what is wrong with what you are trying to tell us that we do.works without faith is useless,keeping the commandments,giving alms, and such produce nothing without faith.Christ said unless your piety exceedes that of the pharisees you will not see heaven.What was wrong with the pharisees? THEY DID NOT BELIEVE,yet they did works to no end.In order that they may be seen by men and recieve the praises of men…they did not do the works for God’s glory but for their own…
Catholics do works not for their own glory but for God’s glory…
Catholics do works in FAITH and CHRIST’S LOVE… It is His love we share when doing works we are closely imitating our Lord and Master…

 

[fbl9]

The work He accomplished on the cross, once for all, you Catholics cannot do. He incarnated to do this work, it was HIS work, and HIS alone. Scripture reveals that His finished work of redemption, reconciliation and propitiation is appropriated to the believer, in full, at the time of belief in Him.It is not. But denying one’s self, taking up his cross and following Him is for the purpose discipleship, not salvation. Salvation, it is clearly revealed, is through FAITH in what HE DID, once for all.

niether can you…but the FACT REMAINS CHRIST DID A WORK…

where did you come up with that gem…from the gospel wiritten by St.Luke.9;24"For he who would save his life will lose it;but he who loses his life for my sake will save it" call me carzy but it sure reads like it involves one’s salvation…or is it moondweller, you do not believe you will have life after your time on earth?

 

[moondweller]

MD …

Christ taught us to ABIDE in him.

Yes, for the purpose of fruit bearing. But abiding in Him is not the same as having been placed in the resurrected Christ through the baptism of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12:13) and now, positionally, seated with Him in the heavenly:Eph 2:4-7 “But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly {places} in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.”

Col 3:1-4 "Therefore if (since) you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.You’re mixing doctrinal concepts.

This implies one can’t ‘rest’ on their initial justification event.

Now you’re mixing justification with experiential sanctification.

Its all about covenants. They started in OT times … and Christ has brought us the NEW covenant(s). One must practice / enjoy these new covenants [sacraments] … in order to fully abide in Christ. You had Baptism, and perhaps a Protestant form of Confirmation. But, from what I read in your past posts … you don’t appreciate need of regular Eucharist – as taught by the Catholic Church.

There’s only one new covenant and this Christ inaugurated 2000 years ago in His blood.

Calling your sacraments covenants is new to me. Can you show me in the CCC where your sacraments are called covenants? I may have overlooked this part. Thanks.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

What I said was that the text itself lets the reader know when the Author is speaking literally or not. The reader cannot impose a nonliteral interpretation at whim. For instance, when Jesus said in the upper room, “Take, eat; this is My body,” the reader should know immediately that He wasn’t speaking literally since He was reclined at table in His body. Hence, in context, the bread represented His body that would be given over to sacrifice. Same with the wine representing His blood that would be shed on the cross for the inaugurating of the new covenant. They were to eat and drink the bread and wine in “remembrance” (in recognition) of Him (i.e., His sacrificial work done on their behalf).

He didn’t say, “This has become My body.” Nor does it say anywhere in the text that He gives them the power, and others after them, to make such miraculous transformations. All this you read INTO the text.Actually, those who make your doctrines are the one’s who claim infallibility. It’s you who believe their claim. I simply believe what the inerrant Scriptures teach in doctrinal form.

It is YOU who decide what to interpret spiritually or literally, not the text. The text is unquestionably not a parable or an allusion but a direct statement of fact, which the reader must accept literally.

Even many Protestants would disown your interpretation here.

 

[moondweller]

Quote:
Hardly, Ryan. Read verses 25-28. None of that prophecy has yet been fulfilled. Not till Israel’s Messiah returns.

Get serious. The immediate context is what God would do at the end of their captivity in Babylon. They were brought back to Israel from captivity and became a nation once again. You do violence to Ezekiel and God by ignoring what was done for Israel.

Did you read vss. 25-28? For that matter, if you think what is revealed in Eze. 37 occurred after Israel’s return from Babylon then everything written in that chapter flew right over your head. But, in reality, what you’re doing is spiritualizing those verses. You’re allegoizing them in order to erroneously apply them this church age, rather than humbly submitting to what Ezekiel is actually prophesying concerning Israel and the promised, earthly, Messianic kingdom over which Jesus, the Son of David, will reign at His second Advent.

How can you reconcile (Ezek 37:19) and (Zech 11:14) by skipping over Christ’s first coming and shooting straight to His second?

Neither of those passages are to be reconciled by Christ’s first advent. Neither pertain to it.

Some day you will realize that there is really no distinction between Jew and Greek;

I do realize that in the church Christ is presently building there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile. We’re all one in Christ (Gal. 3:28). But in the future, earthly, Messianic, Millennial Kingdom that distinction will again exist. Here’s an amazing scene that describes those yet future, glorious days on earth:Zech 8:20-23 "Thus says the LORD of hosts, '{It will} yet {be} that peoples will come, even the inhabitants of many cities. ‘The inhabitants of one will go to another, saying, “Let us go at once to entreat the favor of the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts; I will also go.” So many peoples and mighty nations will come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem and to entreat the favor of the LORD.’ “Thus says the LORD of hosts, ‘In those days ten men from all the nations (Gentiles) will grasp the garment of a Jew, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”’”

I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not become wise (in) your own estimation: a hardening has come upon Israel in part, until the full number of the Gentiles comes in, and thus all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The deliverer will come out of Zion, he will turn away godlessness from Jacob; and this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” (Rom 11:25-27)

Paul, in context, is speaking of the time when this church age has ended with the last Gentile coming into the church, and God will again turn to national Israel and faithfully fulfill all the prophetic and covenant promises He made with that nation. These are described literally and spiritually by the O.T. Hebrew prophets. They spoke of that yet future time, not of this church age. They knew nothing of it. The church, called out form both Jews and Gentiles, was a mystery not revealed to them.

 

[ryanoneil]

Did you read vss. 25-28? For that matter, if you think what is revealed in Eze. 37 occurred after Israel’s return from Babylon then everything written in that chapter flew right over your head. But, in reality, what you’re doing is spiritualizing those verses. You’re allegoizing them in order to erroneously apply them this church age, rather than humbly submitting to what Ezekiel is actually prophesying concerning Israel and the promised, earthly, Messianic kingdom over which Jesus, the Son of David, will reign at His second Advent.

If you believe this is only about the second Advent of Christ, I suggest you stop preaching that Jesus finished the work of redemption on the cross and disregard Hebrews 8.

I do realize that in the church Christ is presently building there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile. We’re all one in Christ (Gal. 3:28). But in the future, earthly, Messianic, Millennial Kingdom that distinction will again exist.

Aren’t you the one who said God doesn’t un-create His creation!

For he is our peace, he who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of enmity, through his flesh, abolishing the law with its commandments and legal claims, that he might create in himself one new person in place of the two, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile both with God, in one body, through the cross, putting that enmity to death by it. (Eph 2:14-16)

God’s plan of salvation progresses. I doesn’t regress.

Here’s an amazing scene that describes those yet future, glorious days on earth:Zech 8:20-23 "Thus says the LORD of hosts, '{It will} yet {be} that peoples will come, even the inhabitants of many cities. ‘The inhabitants of one will go to another, saying, “Let us go at once to entreat the favor of the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts; I will also go.” So many peoples and mighty nations will come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem and to entreat the favor of the LORD.’ “Thus says the LORD of hosts, ‘In those days ten men from all the nations (Gentiles) will grasp the garment of a Jew, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”’”

Paul, in context, is speaking of the time when this church age has ended with the last Gentile coming into the church, and God will again turn to national Israel and faithfully fulfill all the prophetic and covenant promises He made with that nation. These are described literally and spiritually by the O.T. Hebrew prophets. They spoke of that yet future time, not of this church age. They knew nothing of it. The church, called out form both Jews and Gentiles, was a mystery not revealed to them.

Your reasoning makes no sense at all. Why would God end the Church age so Gentiles could outnumber Jews 10:1 in national Israel. That isn’t national Israel at all. It is exactly what the Lord is doing in the Church now.

Your right that they didn’t understand the mystery of Jews and Gentiles sitting at table with one another. They didn’t understand the nature of the Messiah or the Kingdom either, which is why they rejected Him. The Lord is not going to reverse himself because He was not recognized. (Rom 11:25-27) will be fulfilled in (Rev 21).

 

[SHW]

I don’t know how you can possibly get from that passage that the church IS the heavenly Jerusalem. The writer of Hebrews is telling his fellow Jewish believers that they’ve come (i.e., entered into the sphere of relationship) through faith in Christ (spiritually) to "Mt. Zion; historically, understood as the place of blessing for Jews; and to the heavenly Jerusalem. This city is not the church but a true, literal city built by God described in Rev. 21 & 22 with real dimensions, material, walls and gates. And they’ve come to (through faith, entered into relationship with) the church of the first born enrolled in heaven. IOW, they’re now a part of the church Christ has been building since Pentecost. What the writer of Hebrews is saying is that they, through faith in Jesus the Messiah, have entered into a place of eternal relationship with each of them; including the angelic host, God, the judge of all, and Jesus, the Mediator of a new covenant in His blood.

Nowhere does the writer of Hebrews say that the church IS the heavenly Jerusalem. You need to read it more carefully.Actually, the Man Christ Jesus resides bodily in heaven seated on the right hand of the Majesty on High (Heb. 1:3). The believer’s body is called “a temple of God,” but not the soul.

1 Cor 3:16 "Do you not know that you are a temple of God and {that} the Spirit of God dwells in you?
​

Hi MD,

Since the writer of Hebrews states literally and emphatically that the Church is the heavenly Jerusalem; I think we should revisit this passage and others also for further clarification.

Hebrews 12:22-23 “22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,”

Mount Zion, the City of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, the the general assembly and CHURCH of the firstborn. The writer of Hebrews uses all of these descriptions to describe the Church. Mount Zion: CHURCH, Heavenly Jerusalem: CHURCH, City of the living God: CHURCH, General assembly: CHURCH.

All of these descriptions are talking about the CHURCH. When you are a member of the Church through the Sacrament of Baptism which makes us Christ’s disciples, then truly you have come to Mount Zion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, and to the general assembly. You have come to the Church.

Revelation 21 speaks of this same Church:

9Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal.

The Lamb’s (Christ’s) bride (wife) is the Church. The Church is the great city, the holy Jerusalem.

Ephesians 5:23 “For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.”

1 Timothy 3:15 “but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.”

This Scripture also declares that the Church is the house of the living God, just as the writer of Hebrews claims that the Church is the city of the living God.

The Catholic Church is the house of the living God and she is the Holy City Jerusalem come down from heaven; and she alone is the pillar and ground of the truth. She is the heavenly Jerusalem. She is the bride of Christ. She is here right now on earth and she is also in heaven for eternity. And, thanks and glory be to God, I am a member! :extrahappy:

Pax,
SHW​

 

[bullfrog654]

it kind of reminds me you saying jeruslim being the great city

we are not to forget babalon i had a dream once it was the tri cities on the mainland the biggest button religion had to this day

 

[moondweller]

If you believe this is only about the second Advent of Christ, I suggest you stop preaching that Jesus finished the work of redemption on the cross and disregard Hebrews 8.

Redemption is all about the first advent of Christ. He fulfilled the Messianic prophecies which described Him as a suffering Servant. His second Advent is not about sin, redemption and He being the Mediator of a new covenant in His blood, but His return as “King of kings and Lord of Lords,” the Son of David who, according to the prophecies, will ascend His rightful throne in Jerusalem to reign and rule over His kingdom and the nations with a rod of iron:Rev 19:11 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it {is} called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. His eyes {are} a flame of fire, and on His head {are} many diadems; and He has a name written {on Him} which no one knows except Himself. {He is} clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white {and} clean, were following Him on white horses. From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

Aren’t you the one who said God doesn’t un-create His creation!

Yes I am. How do you derive from my posts that I said God un-creates the church? Rather, at the “fullness of the Gentiles” she’ll be taken up to meet in the air Him to whom she’s betrothed.

For he is our peace, he who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of enmity, through his flesh, abolishing the law with its commandments and legal claims, that he might create in himself one new person in place of the two, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile both with God, in one body, through the cross, putting that enmity to death by it. (Eph 2:14-16)

This passage is describing the church Christ is building during this present age, calling it out from both Jews and Gentiles. The two groups become ONE body in Christ, which is the church, the Bride of Christ.

God’s plan of salvation progresses. I doesn’t regress.

It has nothing to do with the progression or regression of salvation. The church and the promised Messianic Kingdom are two different Divine programs revealed in Scripture. They’re not synonymous. You fail to see this when you impose an allegorical interpretation on those O.T. prophecies which vividly describe Israel and her future, Messianic Kingdom age. You force them to say something they don’t.

Your reasoning makes no sense at all. Why would God end the Church age so Gentiles could outnumber Jews 10:1 in national Israel.

They’re not going to live in Israel, they going to journey TO Israel and inquire of Lord who rules there. In the kingdom age national Israel will enjoy supremacy because the Lord is reigning on David’s throne as the prophecies predicted He would.

That isn’t national Israel at all. It is exactly what the Lord is doing in the Church now.

You can only come up with that conclusion by spiritualizing those prophecies and erroneously applying them to the church.

Your right that they didn’t understand the mystery of Jews and Gentiles sitting at table with one another.

No, they, the O.T. prophets, had no clue as to this church age when Jews and Gentiles would be made into “one new man,” both being reconciled in “one body” (the church) to God through the cross (Eph. 2:14-18).

They didn’t understand the nature of the Messiah or the Kingdom either, which is why they rejected Him.

The O.T. prophets described graphically the Messianic Kingdom that is yet to come when Christ, Israel’s King, returns to this earth and sets foot on the Mt. Olives. But national Israel rejected her King causing the predicted, Davidic kingdom to be postponed. But Paul says in Romans chapter eleven that God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. He’s brought a remnant of Jews into the church which Christ is presently building, and will yet usher in a remnant into the Kingdom that is to come as national Israel:Rom 11:11-12 "I say then, they (Israel) did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation {has come} to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be!

Rom 11:15 "For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will {their} acceptance be but life from the dead?Their future, national “life from the dead” corresponds with Ezekiel’s prophetic vision of “dry bones” in chapter thirty seven. Read it in this light.

The Lord is not going to reverse himself because He was not recognized. (Rom 11:25-27) will be fulfilled in (Rev 21).

Reverse Himself??? Rom. 11:26-27 and Rev. 21 are two very different events separated by a thousand years.

 

[SHW]

Actually, the Man Christ Jesus resides bodily in heaven seated on the right hand of the Majesty on High (Heb. 1:3). The believer’s body is called “a temple of God,” but not the soul…

Can you show me where it’s stated in Scripture that Jesus resides in a man’s soul, or that the soul is called a temple?

Hi MD,

The spirit is what gives life to the body. The human body cannot live without the spirit giving it life. (Luke 8:53-56) The human soul is immortal. It gives us spiritual life when the Holy Spirit is residing within it.

Animals have spirits also which are their life-forces but these are not immortal and they die when their bodies die.

“Soul” can refer to an individual person, but Soul usually refers to the immortal spirit which gives a person’s body its “life” and this soul is also the temple that God abides in within us when we are in a state of sanctifying grace (John 3:5-6).

Soul is individual person:

Acts 2:41 “Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.”

1 Peter 3:20 “who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.”

Soul is immortal spirit and temple of the Holy Spirit:

Acts 14:22 "strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.”

Hebrews 10:39 “But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.”

James 1:21 “Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.”

1 Peter 2:11 “Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul,”

Matthew 10:28 “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

Spirit as life-force. Soul (immortal spirit) as temple:

1 Thessalonians 5:23 “Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

The sanctification that God works in man affects his entire being. Spirit and Soul and Temple and Body are sometimes used interchangeably when speaking of God abiding in us.

John 2:21 “But He was speaking of the temple of His body.”

1 Corinthians 6:19 “Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?”

Galatians 6:18 “Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.”

1 Corinthians 3:16 "Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

The spirit animates the body as does the soul since the soul is the temple of the Holy Spirit and it is the Holy Spirit Who gives the soul its spiritual life. When He dwells within our souls, then He is abiding in us and we are also abiding in Him. He must be found abiding in our souls at our deaths in order for us to inherit eternal life. He abides in us only when we are in a state of sanctifying grace. (Romans 8:11) If He is not found abiding within the temples of our souls at our deaths, then He destroys us. We defile our temples by sinning willfully mortal (spiritually deadly) sins (Romans 6:16, 1 John 5:16-17).

The “spirits” of persons who do not have sanctifying grace within their souls still give life to their bodies but this spirit does not give life to their souls. Only the Holy Spirit can give eternal life to our souls and it is the Holy Spirit abiding in us in the temples of our souls at our deaths which approves us to inherit eternal life. (John 3:5-6, 2 John 1:9, John 15:10, James 1:12)

1 Corinthians 3:17 “If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.”

This is why Hebrews 10:26-27 states that if we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, then Jesus’ sacrifice no longer saves us. We defile our temples by mortally sinning and the Holy Spirit moves out:

"For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries."

The Holy Spirit must be living in (abiding in) our souls at the time of our deaths in order for us to inherit eternal life. If He is not abiding in us at the time of our deaths, then we do not receive eternal life. (1 John 3:6, 1 John 3:24, Romans 8:11)

1 John 4:13 “By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.”

Luke 10:27-28 "So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’” 28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”

If we desire to inherit eternal life, then we must love God with all our hearts, all our souls, all our strengths, and all our minds, and our neighbors as ourselves. If we do not do this, then we will not “live” (inherit eternal life). This is the Royal Law which must be obeyed in order to inherit eternal life. (James 2:7-9)

While we are alive,** our bodies house our immortal souls which are the temples of the Holy Spirit**. When we die, our bodies return to dust, but our souls continue to live. Our souls will be rejoined to our new immortal incorruptible bodies when Jesus returns at His Second Coming. (1 Corinthians 15:51-53) So our bodies are indeed the “temples” of the Holy Spirit because our bodies are the “homes” for our “souls/temples” to reside in.

Pax,
SHW

 

[BRB1]

Calling your sacraments covenants is new to me. Can you show me in the CCC where your sacraments are called covenants? I may have overlooked this part. Thanks.

From Paul’s epistle, taken from Mark’s gospel.

1st Corinithinians 11:24-25 … and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This is the new COVENANT in my blood. Do this in remembrance of me.”

Mark 14:24 And he said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.”

 

[SHW]

it kind of reminds me you saying jeruslim being the great city

we are not to forget babalon i had a dream once it was the tri cities on the mainland the biggest button religion had to this day

Hi bullfrog,

Yes, Jerusalem is the great city, spoken of in Revelation where Jesus was crucified, and it is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt:

Revelation 11:8 “And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.”

Pagan Rome is spiritually called Babylon. Pagan Rome worshiped false gods and persecuted the early Christians:

Revelation 16:19 “Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.”

Revelation 17:5 “And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.”

The Church, the bride of Christ, is spiritually called the new holy Jerusalem. She is the new everlasting “great city:”

Revelation 21:9 “Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,”

Pax,
SHW

 

[bullfrog654]

north america that great destructive word ip peoples minds which include the states and canada the states gave vancouver island to canada even though bc capital is past the 49th parellel close to the states. new west minster in bc used to be the capital of bc now south of the island is its victoria. the olympics in 2010 has sparked man to deveope construction to a big boom (for the olympics) the east end in vancouver the one with low cost housing will as i know of be renovated and too expensive for people like myself. so the homless rate will go up. my wife an eye went to the empress in victoria once to have a $4 coffee with no refills but at least we could say we were there. it astones me on the east end in vancouver there is also the poorest hotel called the empress.

kind of funny though ive paid for it before my wife thinks she owns the island and my dad the ferries. when the olympics come as dejavue on tv just said i hope to go and can afford it.

know can anyone tell me how to get rid of goasts going on my tv. lool

 

[moondweller]

From Paul’s epistle, taken from Mark’s gospel.

1st Corinithinians 11:24-25 … and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This is the new COVENANT in my blood. Do this in remembrance of me.”

Mark 14:24 And he said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.”

You fudge a lot, BRB. You called all your sacraments N.T. “covenants.”

 

[SHW]

John the Baptist, Jesus and His disciples all preached that the Kingdom of heaven was “at hand” (Matt. 3:2; 3:17; 10:6-7) And they preached that message ONLY to Israel. However, after Matt. chapter 12 that message was not preached by them, nor was it the message Jesus gave to His disciples to take to the world after His bodily resurrection (Matt. 28:18-20). Israel’s King was rejected by that generation and the promised, Davidic, Messianic kingdom was withdrawn and postponed. There can be no Messianic kingdom without the King present. Instead He is presently building His church, calling it out from individual Jews and Gentiles, through the Holy Spirit, while sharing His Father’s throne in heaven.

Hi MD,

“At hand” means “here.” So the kingdom of God is already here.

Luke 16:16 “The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.”

Present tense: Every one is pressing into it. The kingdom of God is here right now and I am living in it because the Holy Spirit is abiding in my soul.

Luke 17:20-21 "Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

The kingdom of God is here right now and it is within us in our “temples of the Holy Spirit,” which are our souls! The Holy Spirit takes up residence in our souls when we are baptized. Where He is, the kingdom is. (Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Acts 10:48, Acts 22:16, Galatians 3:27, 1 Corinthians 6:11)

Jesus literally stated that the words He spoke to them were not literal but spiritual:

John 6:62-63 "{What} then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life."

Flesh without spiritual animation is dead because flesh needs spirit in order to be a living being. Without our spirits animating our flesh we are but a corpse (dead) and this dead body is useless and decays. Jesus’ Words say that we must eat His Flesh and drink His Blood in order to have eternal life with Him because His Spirit gives our spirits life (sanctifying grace for eternal life) through our eating of His living Flesh and Blood. Eating the dead flesh of the animals sacrificed as paschal lambs at Passover cannot save us but eating Jesus’ living Flesh as Paschal Lamb will save us if we receive It in a worthy manner.

His Spirit will animate both our spirits and bodies forever after we receive new bodies at the Resurrection of the Dead when He returns at His Second Coming. Holy Eucharist is the way that God has chosen for those persons in His New Covenant Church, who obey Him, to be nourished both spiritually and physically on earth in order that they may live eternally with Him in heaven after the Resurrection of the Dead and the Last Judgment.

What He is telling us cannot be perceived by our bodily senses (the flesh) but instead it must be accepted as revelation from God (Who is Spirit and Life).

Pax,
SHW

 

[SHW]

… And you join the ranks of those who erred at that time by thinking He was speaking literally. You, like them, completely miss the crucial point He was making in respect to He being the source of eternal life through the giving of His body as a sin sacrifice, received only through faith in Him (Jn. 6:47-51). Hence, rather than believe and receive His life, you continue to work for that which can be given (gifted) only “by grace through faith.”

Hi MD,

John 6:51 "I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
**52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?” **
53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed,[h] and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.” 59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.

John 6:60-68Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”
61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life."

He definitely did not correct them when He heard them quarreling about His teaching. He did not explain that He only meant it “symbolically” or “spiritually” and not “literally.” No, instead, He repeats His teaching more forcefully. And after His more forceful teaching, since they do not believe Him literally, they leave Him and follow Him no more.

When these disciples left, did Jesus call them back and explain that He was only speaking “symbolically” or “spiritually?” No. Did He reassure them that they did not have to literally eat His Flesh and eat His Blood? No. Surely He would have if it were true that He was only speaking symbolically or spiritually and not literally. He meant it literally and they knew without a doubt that He meant it literally. They could not abide His teaching and so they left and followed Him no more.

Then Jesus asks the twelve if they want to leave Him also. They do not understand how this can be done (this eating of His Flesh and Blood literally), but they believe Him and so they stay with Him.

Pax,
SHW

 

[SHW]

Paul didn’t say you had to fill up anything. He was speaking of himself, and in respect to the ministry commissioned to him by Christ, not in respect to Christ’s work on the cross and salvation. This he states clearly is entered into only “by grace through faith…not as a result of works” (Eph. 2:8-9).

Yes, he does. Paul states:

1 Corinthians 11:1-2 "Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ. 2 Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you.

Why must we “obey Paul and work out our salvation with fear and trembling?”(Philippians 2:12)

We cannot meet the Lord on Judgment Day with our hands and hearts empty and expect Him to save us. They must instead be full of good works/fruits in order for us to enter eternal life. We must do the will of His Father and His will is that we do the works that He has prepared for us to do.

Ephesians 2:10 “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.”

We were created in Christ Jesus (saved by Him through Baptism) in order for us to do the good works that His Father had prepared for us beforehand. If we do not do these good works which are the Father’s will for us to do, then we will not be saved. (Titus 3:8, Titus 3:14)

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.”

Romans 12:1-2 “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.”

Why were we created? We were created to love God and our neighbors and to live with them in heaven for eternity.

Luke 10:25-28 "And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?” 27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’” 28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”

We love God by obeying/keeping His commandments and producing good fruits. (1 John 5:3, 1 John 5:2, Titus 3:14)

We love our neighbor by providing him with spiritual direction and providing for his physical needs such as shelter, food, clothing, and companionship. (1 John 4:21, Matthew 25:34-46)

“But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?” Dead faith does not save us. “You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.”(James 2)

James 2:22 “Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?”

Galatians 5:6 “For** in Christ Jesus** neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.”

Matthew 7:19-20 “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.”

Every person who does not bear good fruit is thrown into hellfire.

Revelation 3:14-16 “And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then,** because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth**.”

Good works prove that our Faith is a saving faith.

Hebrews 11:7 “By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.”

If Noah only had faith that God would save him from the deluge, but chose to not build the ark (his work in obedience to God’s command,) then he and his household would not have been saved. It takes both faith and works in order to inherit eternal life. First, we believe, and then we obey.

Revelation 2:10 “Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.”

2 John 1:8 “Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.”

Revelation 22:12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.”

After our deaths, because we came to Jesus with our hands and hearts full of good works as proof of our love of Him, we pass the “test” of stewardship and He then approves us for our crowns of eternal life. (1 Corinthians 4:2, 1 Peter 4:10, James 1:12)

Matthew 25:21 “His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’”

Pax,
SHW