What does it mean to abide "in Christ?"

[AmbroseSJ]

Hi MD,

John 6:51 "I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
**52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?” **
53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed,[h] and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.” 59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.

John 6:60-68Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”
61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life."

He definitely did not correct them when He heard them quarreling about His teaching. He did not explain that He only meant it “symbolically” or “spiritually” and not “literally.” No, instead, He repeats His teaching more forcefully. And after His more forceful teaching, since they do not believe Him literally, they leave Him and follow Him no more.

When these disciples left, did Jesus call them back and explain that He was only speaking “symbolically” or “spiritually?” No. Did He reassure them that they did not have to literally eat His Flesh and eat His Blood? No. Surely He would have if it were true that He was only speaking symbolically or spiritually and not literally. He meant it literally and they knew without a doubt that He meant it literally. They could not abide His teaching and so they left and followed Him no more.

Then Jesus asks the twelve if they want to leave Him also. They do not understand how this can be done (this eating of His Flesh and Blood literally), but they believe Him and so they stay with Him.

Pax,
SHW

Thanks SHW for posting this. I regret to say I have no patience for immature superficial reasoners that prove how truly the Catholic Church always taught, when it said that the Scriptures should not be read by all men indifferently.

The Truth of the Scriptures is hard and even veiled. Hence Jesus himself was required to “open” the Scriptures to his own Apostles, and the Disciples on their way to Emmaus. It was the humble acknowledgment of Queen Candace’s Chamberlain regarding his own inability to understand the Scriptures, that moved God to miraculously send St. Philip the Apostle to him to open up the meaning of Isaiah for him. If only the fundies would acknowledge their need for a “guide” as the Chamberlain did, the meaning of Scripture would at last be revealed to them.

But they will proudly (and foolishly) insist that they have no need for a guide, that they all have the Holy Spirit, when even the Apostles and Disciples of the Lord, needed a human guide (Jesus while he was still in the flesh.)

Even when ST. Paul says there are many gifts of the Holy Spirit, and are not given in the same measure to all men, but rather as the Holy Spirit sees fit. Yet the fundies say they all automatically have the aid of the Holy Spirit, contrary to St. Paul, the Scriptures, and the doctrine of the Church.

 

[BRB1]

You fudge a lot, BRB. You called all your sacraments N.T. “covenants.”

And so most of the 7 are. Marriage, Confession, & Holy Orders date to OT times.
Clearly the NT additions are Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist … the Big 3, which confer rebirth illumination, consecration, and forgiveness with restoration of H.S.

Catholics don’t ‘fudge’ … We follow PAUL’s teaching in Philippians 2:4-15 on proper reverence, confession, letting Christ work within, and reforming Christian Prodigal son/daughters of return to former ‘secular’ ways.

---

Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which you have in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has hightly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE SHOULD BOW, in heaven and ON EARTH and under the earth, and EVER TONGUE CONFESS that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Therefore, MY BELOVED, AS YOU HAVE ALWAYS OBEYED, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absense, WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION with fear and trembling; for GOD IS AT WORK IN YOU, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. Do all things without grumbling or questioning, that you MAY BE BLAMELESS …

And Matthew 26:27 on the Eucharist. And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, ALL OF YOU, for this is MY BLOOD of the COVENANT, which is poured out for many for the FORGIVENESS OF SINS.”

 

[moondweller]

Hi MD,

“At hand” means “here.” So the kingdom of God is already here.

“In hand” might mean “here.” The King was rejected. There can be no Kingdom without the king. Not until His second advent will He sit on His glorious throne (Matt. 25:31).

Flesh without spiritual animation is dead because flesh needs spirit in order to be a living being. Without our spirits animating our flesh we are but a corpse (dead) and this dead body is useless and decays. Jesus’ Words say that we must eat His Flesh and drink His Blood in order to have eternal life with Him because His Spirit gives our spirits life (sanctifying grace for eternal life) through our eating of His living Flesh and Blood. Eating the dead flesh of the animals sacrificed as paschal lambs at Passover cannot save us but eating Jesus’ living Flesh as Paschal Lamb will save us if we receive It in a worthy manner.

In context Jesus was not comparing Himself with animal sacrifices, but the “manna” sent from heaven to sustain the lives of the ancients in the wilderness. He called Himself not the “animal of life” but the “BREAD of life” that came down from heaven and that he who comes to Him (through faith) shall not hunger, and he who BELIEVES in Him will never thirst. Why? Because those who believe in Him HAVE eternal life. He then says that the “bread” that He gives for the life of the world is His flesh. Here He refers directly to the sacrificial death He’ll endure for the price of man’s redemption: “a ransom for many.”

To “eat” and “drink” in context is not literal but symbolizes the act of internalizing (like eating manna), through faith, what He will accomplish for them through His sacrificial death. That’s why He says, "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who BELIEVES HAS eternal life: HIS RESURRECTED LIFE.

How is it you’ll take Mass thousands of times in your lifetime and yet you don’t possess eternal life but only hope to in the future (cf. Jn. 6:54, take note of the word “has”)?

 

[moondweller]

We cannot meet the Lord on Judgment Day with our hands and hearts empty and expect Him to save us.

No one is saved on so-called "Judgment Day.“2 Cor 6:2 for He says, “AT THE ACCEPTABLE TIME I LISTENED TO YOU, AND ON THE DAY OF SALVATION I HELPED YOU.” Behold, now is “THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,” behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION”–

They must instead be full of good works/fruits in order for us to enter eternal life.

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

We must do the will of His Father and His will is that we do the works that He has prepared for us to do.
Ephesians 2:10 “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.”

Those who are “created in Christ Jesus” (Eph. 2:10) are those who “have been saved by grace through faith…not as a result of works” (Eph. 2:8-9). They were created in Christ Jesus FOR good works, not saved BY them. The “created in Christ Jesus,” according to God’s Word, were first saved by grace through faith alone.

 

[moondweller]

And so most of the 7 are. Marriage, Confession, & Holy Orders date to OT times.
Clearly the NT additions are Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist … the Big 3, which confer rebirth illumination, consecration, and forgiveness with restoration of H.S.

I asked where in the CCC your sacraments are called N.T. “covenants.” Can you supply me with that reference?

 

[BRB1]

I asked where in the CCC your sacraments are called N.T. “covenants.” Can you supply me with that reference?

By definition all sacraments are covenants. Some keep them, some don’t …

Why do you ask about CCC ? If Christ said it in scriptures [as seen in Paul’s epistles & Gospels] … Catholics receive & believe it. Plus, … a few Traditions taught by Christ to Apostles — that never got recorded in canon scripture.

 

[moondweller]

By definition all sacraments are covenants. Some keep them, some don’t …

Why do you ask about CCC ? If Christ said it in scriptures [as seen in Paul’s epistles & Gospels] … Catholics receive & believe it. Plus, … a few Traditions taught by Christ to Apostles — that never got recorded in canon scripture.

Sacrament by definition is not a covenant - that’s why I asked where in the CCC it’s taught that way. I will assume you couldn’t find it. I didn’t recall seeing the CCC defining your sacraments as N.T. “covenants.”

 

[SHW]

“In hand” might mean “here.” The King was rejected. There can be no Kingdom without the king. Not until His second advent will He sit on His glorious throne (Matt. 25:31).

Hi MD,

“At hand” does mean “here.” Everyone is pressing into the kingdom. (Luke 16:16)

Hebrews 8:1 “Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.”

He is already sitting at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven. He is Minister of this sanctuary and it is His eternal tabernacle.

Acts 2:33 “Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.”

He sits to His Father’s right on the throne of the Majesty right now and for eternity. Heaven is His throne, earth is His footstool. This never changes. He will not return to earth to an earthly kingdom. His kingdom is not on earth and it never will be. (John 18:36)

Acts 5:30-32 "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. 31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.” (Philippians 2:9-11)

Jesus is already reigning in heaven and He will continue to do so for eternity. It really is plain. A literal earthly kingdom would be beneath His current exalted position of King over all.

Why hasn’t He come back yet to take His Church home?

2 Peter 3:9 “The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.”

In context Jesus was not comparing Himself with animal sacrifices, but the “manna” sent from heaven to sustain the lives of the ancients in the wilderness. He called Himself not the “animal of life” but the “BREAD of life” that came down from heaven and that he who comes to Him (through faith) shall not hunger, and he who BELIEVES in Him will never thirst. Why? Because those who believe in Him HAVE eternal life. He then says that the “bread” that He gives for the life of the world is His flesh. Here He refers directly to the sacrificial death He’ll endure for the price of man’s redemption: “a ransom for many.”

To “eat” and “drink” in context is not literal but symbolizes the act of internalizing (like eating manna), through faith, what He will accomplish for them through His sacrificial death. That’s why He says, "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who BELIEVES HAS eternal life: HIS RESURRECTED LIFE.

How is it you’ll take Mass thousands of times in your lifetime and yet you don’t possess eternal life but only hope to in the future (cf. Jn. 6:54, take note of the word “has”)?

Jesus is the Paschal Lamb. He is compared to animal sacrifice in other Scriptures. (Revelation 5:6) He is also compared to the manna in the desert. However, neither of these, manna nor animal sacrifice, when eaten give us eternal life. But eating Jesus’ Body and Blood do give us eternal life when we die, if we eat it worthily while we are on earth. Pascal lambs must be literally eaten according to Jewish Law.

1 Corinthians 11:27-29 “Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.”

The judgment of God upon persons who unworthily partake of only “symbolic” body and blood would seem to be a very harsh punishment (hell), in my opinion. It is truly the actual literal Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. The doctrine of OSAS is false since if a person partakes of the Holy Eucharist (the actual literal Body and Blood of Christ) unworthily, then they receive God’s wrath (judgment) if they do not repent before death. There is no eternal security here on earth. (1 Timothy 5:24)

Actually, the Greek word for “eat” in this Scripture passage (John 6) means to literally “chew.”

"Believe" is not complete without "obedience."

When persons first believe, they are then commanded to be baptized. If they do not obey, then their belief is not true belief and they will be condemned.

Mark 16:16 “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.”

He who does not believe also does not receive baptism and therefore he is not saved.

Acts 10:47-48 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.”

Even those Gentiles who received Confirmation before Baptism were commanded to be baptized because baptism removes original sin from the soul. This was a special case in order to show Peter that Gentiles were to admitted to discipleship. The norm is to be baptized with water first in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and then to be confirmed in the faith afterward. So Peter still commanded them to be baptized, even though they had received Confirmation first, because Baptism removes Original Sin from our souls.

John 6:54 “Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

We must receive Him worthily as stated in 1 Corinthians 11:27-29 in order for it to apply because we have to be in the state of grace when we die in order to inherit eternal life. The Holy Spirit must be abiding in our souls at the time of our deaths in order for us to inherit eternal life. This does not mean that we cannot lose eternal life if we sin. It means that when we receive Him worthily, then after we die, we will be raised up and we will inherit eternal life.

Pax,
SHW

 

[SHW]

No one is saved on so-called “Judgment Day.…now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION”

Judgment Day is the day that everyone finds out everyone’s eternal abodes. We are all actually judged at our deaths in our own particular judgments.

Every day is a possible day of salvation for those who have not yet been baptized. But, unless they believe and consent to be baptized, then they will not be saved.

After Baptism, then we must continue in the faith by putting on our spiritual armor with the hope of salvation as our helmet:

1 Thessalonians 5:8 “But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.”

We must pass all tests to prove the genuineness of our faith in order to inherit eternal life at our deaths:

1 Peter 1:6-9 “In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while,** if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith**, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.” (Revelation 2:1-3)

How long must we be faithful (obedient to the whole gospel of Jesus Christ)? We must be faithful until death:

Revelation 2:10 “Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.”

We must be faithful until death. (Mark 13:9-13) How must we be faithful?

2 Thessalonians 1:3-5 “We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;”

Looks like they are “working out their salvation with fear and trembling” because they want to be “counted worthy (approved) of the kingdom of God.” (Philippians 2:12)

They were created in Christ Jesus FOR good works, not saved BY them. The “created in Christ Jesus,” according to God’s Word, were first saved by grace through faith alone.

You really do need to understand that first, we were saved by grace alone because Jesus chose to die in atonement for our sins because He loved us. All we had to do was believe in Jesus and obey His command to be baptized in order to have our souls washed clean and become His disciples. But, in order to continue as His disciples, we have to obey His gospel. To believe in Him means to obey Him (His gospel). (Acts 5:28-30) Also, Scripture does not state anywhere that we are saved by faith “alone.” Instead, it states “You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only (alone).” James 2:24 Scripture does not contradict other Scripture if interpreted correctly.

After our redemption and justification, then we must “do the will of the Father in heaven” in order to continue to be justified. To do His will means to obey Him. (Matthew 7:21)

Ephesians 2:10 “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.”

Acts 5:32 "And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

Romans 2:5-10 “the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.” (Romans 6:15-18)

Hebrews 5:9 “And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,”

What must we obey? We must obey the gospel of Jesus or else we will not be saved:

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction”

What is the gospel of Jesus? It is the doctrine/traditions that the Apostles teach, both oral and written:

Romans 16:17 “Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.”

2 Thessalonians 2:13-17 “But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle. 16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.”

You really do need to learn the whole gospel of Jesus’ Church and not cling to your own interpretations which are unfortunately full of errors:

2 Timothy 4:3-4 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.”

Pax,
SHW

 

[SHW]

Thanks SHW for posting this. I regret to say I have no patience for immature superficial reasoners that prove how truly the Catholic Church always taught, when it said that the Scriptures should not be read by all men indifferently.

The Truth of the Scriptures is hard and even veiled. Hence Jesus himself was required to “open” the Scriptures to his own Apostles, and the Disciples on their way to Emmaus. It was the humble acknowledgment of Queen Candace’s Chamberlain regarding his own inability to understand the Scriptures, that moved God to miraculously send St. Philip the Apostle to him to open up the meaning of Isaiah for him. If only the fundies would acknowledge their need for a “guide” as the Chamberlain did, the meaning of Scripture would at last be revealed to them.

But they will proudly (and foolishly) insist that they have no need for a guide, that they all have the Holy Spirit, when even the Apostles and Disciples of the Lord, needed a human guide (Jesus while he was still in the flesh.)

Even when ST. Paul says there are many gifts of the Holy Spirit, and are not given in the same measure to all men, but rather as the Holy Spirit sees fit. Yet the fundies say they all automatically have the aid of the Holy Spirit, contrary to St. Paul, the Scriptures, and the doctrine of the Church.

Hi Ambrose,

Yes, what you say is true. Some Scriptures are hard to understand, and unless we listen to His infallible Church, we will teach false doctrines. We must be taught the true interpretation by His Church.

2 Peter 3:15-16 “our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also** in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught** and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.”

Pax,
SHW

 

[fbl9]

first,

we were saved by grace alone because Jesus chose to die in atonement for our sins because He loved us. All we had to do was believe in Jesus and obey His command to be baptized in order to have our souls washed clean and become His disciples. But, in order to continue as His disciples, we have to obey His gospel. To believe in Him means to obey Him (His gospel). (Acts 5:28-30) Also, Scripture does not state anywhere that we are saved by faith “alone.” Instead, it states “You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only (alone).” James 2:24 Scripture does not contradict other Scripture if interpreted correctly.

After our redemption and justification, then we must “do the will of the Father in heaven” in order to continue to be justified. To do His will means to obey Him. (Matthew 7:21)

Ephesians 2:10 “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.”

Acts 5:32 "And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

Romans 2:5-10 “the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.” (Romans 6:15-18)

Hebrews 5:9 “And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,”

What must we obey? We must obey the gospel of Jesus or else we will not be saved:

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction”

What is the gospel of Jesus? It is the doctrine/traditions that the Apostles teach, both oral and written:

Romans 16:17 “Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.”

2 Thessalonians 2:13-17 “But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle. 16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.”

You really do need to learn the whole gospel of Jesus’ Church and not cling to your own interpretations which are unfortunately full of errors:

2 Timothy 4:3-4 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.”

Pax,
SHWhi SHW you are much better at saying what needs to be said using scripture than i…you made the point i was trying to get across to MD that just as Christ had to do a work for our salvation we too must also have work to do in our salvation…your quote from Ephesians 2:10…covers this piont very well.

 

[SHW]

For persons interested in learning more “historical background information” about Jesus’ “coronation as king of the Jews” and Pilate’s hand in it:

bible-prophecy-today.blogspot.com/2009/04/passover-coronation-day-for-jewish.html

“The day that Jesus was crucified was also the traditional Jewish day for the Coronation of Kings!” Mere coincidence? I think not!

A Joyous Easter to All!
SHW

 

[moondweller]

Hi MD,

“At hand” means “here.” So the kingdom of God is already here.

Luke 16:16 “The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.”

Yes. But Jesus is talking in the context of John the Baptist.

Until John the Law and Prophets were proclaimed. But with John came the “gospel (good news) of the kingdom.” He was unique, its forerunner. He began his ministry with the announcement that the kingdom was “at hand,” and many Jews were coming out to be baptized by him. He came in the spirit of Alijah with a call of repentance for Israel, chosen to prepare the way of the Lord (Lk. 1:76; Jn. 1:23).

The kingdom prophesied in the Old Testament and anticipated by the Jews at the time of John the Baptist was to be a unique time on earth when God would “restore the fortunes of Israel” (Jer. 29:14; 30:3,18; 31:23; 32:44; 33:7,11,26; Eze. 39:25; Joel 3:1; Zeph. 3:20; Hos. 6:11; Amos 9:14) and a Son of David would rule over the house of Jacob forever (Lk. 1:32-33). It’s described by those prophets as a time of peace and righteousness on the earth (Is. 2:1-5; 11:1-9).

The King was born, introduced to Israel by John, and now walked in their midst (thus the kingdom was “at hand”). But because of the King’s rejection by national Israel that kingdom NEVER materialized. Through unbelief Israel’s King was instead delivered over to the Gentiles and crucified. But by the sovereign will and purpose of God He who was rejected became the “the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world;” the Redeemer of Adam’s race through His shed blood on the cross.

Subsequently, His Apostles weren’t sent out to preach the gospel of the kingdom but instead the gospel of salvation “by grace though faith” in the Person and redemptive work of the risen Savior. Starting from Jerusalem and to the remotest parts of the earth they were to be His witnesses, testifying to the world of His death and bodily resurrection and proclaiming forgiveness of sins through faith in Him (Acts 1:8; 10:43; 13:38; 26:18; Col. 1:14). Since Pentecost, through belief in this gospel message, Christ has been building His church (Matt. 16:18), each of the redeemed being baptized into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit at the time of belief (1 Cor. 12:13).

According to Scripture, the “gospel of the kingdom” will not be preached again until the end of the age (Matt. 24:14). As the Scripture says:"…when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne" (Matt. 25:31).But for now, having entered the heavenly Tabernacle through His own blood, and having obtained eternal redemption through the sacrifice of Himself while on earth, He sits at the right hand of the Majesty on High functioning there as the redeemed believer’s High Priest, his Intercessor and Advocate before the Father (Heb. 7:25; 1 Jn. 2:1).

His kingdom is yet to come and only those who believe, while on earth, having been “saved by grace through faith…not as a result of works” will participate in it.

 

[fbl9]

Hi moondweller;; could you please give us your take on the parable of the talents…the gospel written by St.Matthew 25:14-30…

please also read St.Matthew 24:14"And the gospel OF THE KINGDOM shall be preached…"

Also i have to see where Christ says upon His return He will rule for a thousand yrs,

the throne on which Christ sits on in St.Matthew 25;31 is a throne of JUDGEMENT read the rest that follows or would you rather not because it definitley says that if one did not do works they will not enter the kingdom of heaven,

 

[SHW]

His kingdom is yet to come and only those who believe, while on earth, having been “saved by grace through faith…not as a result of works” will participate in it.

Hi MD,

His kingdom is already here. People are pressing into it right now through Baptism (Luke 16:16, Galatians 3:27) Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom while He was on earth. The apostles and their successors have continued to preach it to this very day and will continue to preach it until “the thousand years” are finished which are the times of the Gentiles (Matthew 24:14, Revelation 20:2-4, 2 Peter 3:8, Luke 21:24) and then Antichrist will be born. (Revelation 13:11-18)

This all happens before Jesus returns at His Second Coming (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4) and those persons who are still alive on earth after the Great Tribulation and death of the Antichrist meet Him in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:15-18). Jesus does not come back to earth to rule in a physical kingdom. Those “who are alive” actually “meet Him in the air” (1 Corinthians 15:51-54) and return with Him to heaven for this is the Day of Judgment. (2 Corinthians 5:10)

When Adam sinned the first sin which we call Original Sin, the gates of heaven were closed to mankind. Adam’s sin made all of his descendants “enemies” of God in that they could not have fellowship with God and eternal life in heaven with Him unless a Mediator atoned for this one sin and made mankind once more “friends” of God and worthy once again to have fellowship with Him. (Romans 5)

Romans 5:10 “For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.”

So, no “works” of mere man could ever atone for this one Original Sin. This is why Jesus came to earth. He came in order to atone for this one sin and He did so out of His love for us. We did not deserve His gift. We could not earn it. This is why Paul stressed that it is by grace and not works that we are saved. Only a perfect sacrifice could atone for Adam’s Original Sin. But this does not mean that after Jesus (as Perfect Offering) atoned for Adam’s sin that we are not held responsible for our own actions. We are. Once we receive Jesus’ free gift of grace by believing in Him, then we must imitate Jesus’ life in doing the will of His Father in heaven in order to inherit eternal life.

This is why the Scripture above states: “Much more having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.”

This is why we have to “work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12) We are saved “much more” by His life because by imitating Him in doing good works and producing good fruits and obeying His commandments, we thereby do the will of His Father in heaven and we are then approved for eternal life when we die. (Matthew 7:21) You can be baptized and still not inherit eternal life.

Jesus begins His salvation work in us when we are baptized and then we are obliged to continue His work by doing our own good works in order to be found worthy of inheriting eternal life at our deaths. We must perfect His work which was begun in us by our Baptisms:

14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “ I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people.” 17 Therefore “ Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you.” 18 “ I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the LORD Almighty.” 1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18-7:1)

We are required to perfect our holiness in order to inherit eternal life. If we are lukewarm in perfecting ourselves (faith alone with no good works), then we will not be saved because God will vomit us out of His mouth. (Revelation 3:15-18)

1 Thessalonians 3:9-10 “For what thanks can we render to God for you, for all the joy with which we rejoice for your sake before our God, 10 night and day praying exceedingly that we may see your face and perfect what is lacking in your faith?”

Our faith is imperfect and it must be perfected in order to inherit eternal life. We perfect our faith by obeying God’s commandments and producing good fruits. (Acts 10:34-35)

Hebrews 6:1-6 “Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.”

Paul stresses the importance of continuing in the faith by exaggerating (using hyperbole to make his point more emphatically) that if you fall away that you cannot ever again be brought to repentance. Of course, we know that it is possible to repent, but persons who deny God by doing evil works after they are once saved don’t always repent again and reconcile with God through the Sacrament of Confession and so they are lost forever when they die.

Dead works are those of the OT Covenant that pertained to the “law of commandments contained in ordinances (Ephesians 2:15).” These are not the commandments of Jesus which must be obeyed if we desire to inherit eternal life. Examples of the commandments of Jesus which we must obey are listed in Matthew 19:16-19 and Luke 10:25-28.

to be continued…

 

[SHW]

Continued:

Romans 13:8-14 "Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,”and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

11 And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. 13 Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts."

We must put on Christ (imitate Him) and not deny Him by doing evil works if we desire to inherit eternal life when we die. (Titus 1:16) Our salvation gets nearer the more we perfect our faith.

James 2:21-24 states that our faith works together with our works in order for our faith to be made perfect and our perfect faith is what justifies us so that we can then be approved worthy to inherit eternal life. (James 1:12, 2 Timothy 2:15, Philippians 1:27, 1 Thessalonians 2:11-13, 2 Thessalonians 1:10-12, Revelation 3:4)

Colossians 1:9-12 “For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy; 12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.”

When we are baptized, we are conveyed (brought into) the kingdom of God (Galatians 3:27).

Mark 1:14-15 "Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

The time is fulfilled. Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is here.

It is now time to “believe in the gospel of the kingdom of God” and to “work out our salvation with fear and trembling” in order to “perfect what is lacking in our faith” so that we can be brought “nearer to salvation” and be “counted worthy” of inheriting eternal life when we die so that we can “receive our crowns.” (Mark 1:14-15, Philippians 2:12, 1 Thessalonians 3:10, Romans 13:11, 2 Thessalonians 1:5, James 1:12)

Pax,
SHW

 

[moondweller]

Hi moondweller;; could you please give us your take on the parable of the talents…the gospel written by St.Matthew 25:14-30…

First of all you must understand that although all Scripture is written for you not all Scripture is written about you. For instance, the promise of eternal life in the N.T. Scriptures is not written about unbelievers but believers.

That said, Matt. 25:14-30 is not about the church Christ is now, presently building and being made up of believing Jews and Gentiles. Matt. 25:1-30 concerns Israel at the end of the age, not the church. In fact, the church is not mentioned anywhere in chapters 24 and 25.

The parable of the ten virgins and the one about the slaves are both about being alert, prepared and ready for when the Son of Man returns to set up His Millennial kingdom on earth.

The ten virgins represent Israel which is to be waiting for their master to return from the wedding. The wedding has already taken place between Christ and His bride (the rapture of the church) and He is about to return (see Lk. 12:35-36). The parable is about being ready for Him.

This same theme of readiness for Israel is the focus in the parable of the slaves and the talents given to them (see Lk. 12:37-40).

Neither of these parables pertain to the church He is presently building.

please also read St.Matthew 24:14"And the gospel OF THE KINGDOM shall be preached…"

I’ve read it many times. The “gospel of the kingdom” is not the “gospel of grace” which is being preached to the world during this church age (Acts 20:24; Gal. 1:6; Phil. 1:7).

AFTER the church, the Bride of Christ, is taken up to be with her Lord, the “gospel of the kingdom” that was preached by John the Baptist, Christ and His disciples during His earthly ministry, the message that it was “at hand” (Matt. 3:2; 4:17; 10:7), will be preached again by Jews to the whole world just prior to the King’s second Advent. No doubt it will be by those 144,000 mentioned in Rev. 7:4-8. It was preached by Jews then, it will preached by Jews again.

Also i have to see where Christ says upon His return He will rule for a thousand yrs,

The thousand years is found in Rev. 19:11 - 20:1-6. At the end of the age Christ returns to this earth as “King of kings and Lord of lords” to set up His glorious Kingdom. A glorious time when Satan will be bound and not active on this earth for 1000 years.

the throne on which Christ sits on in St.Matthew 25;31 is a throne of JUDGEMENT read the rest that follows or would you rather not because it definitley says that if one did not do works they will not enter the kingdom of heaven,

Matt. 25:31 states that when the Son of Man comes in His glory (“King of kings and Lord of lords”), THEN He will sit on His glorious throne. That’s the throne of David on which, by Divine covenant, He was born to rule (Lk. 1:32-33).

In this scene it is ONLY the Gentiles nations (Gr. ethnê) on earth at that time that are being brought before Him. He is not judging them but separating them by their identity. Those who are His “sheep” are placed on His right, the “goats” on His left. He is not judging their works to determine their destination, but their identity is what determines that. His sheep are ushered into His Kingdom, the goats cast off.

 

[moondweller]

Hi MD,

His kingdom is already here. People are pressing into it right now through Baptism (Luke 16:16, Galatians 3:27) Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom while He was on earth. The apostles and their successors have continued to preach it to this very day

Show me in Matt. 28:19-20 where Jesus commands them to preach that the Kingdom is “at hand.” Show me in the historical account of Acts where Peter, James, Philip, Stephen, John or Paul ever preached that message of the kingdom.

Truth is, it wasn’t a kingdom message they took to the world, but the message of Divine redemption through the cross, and salvation by grace through faith in the risen Christ alone.

and will continue to preach it until “the thousand years” are finished which are the times of the Gentiles (Matthew 24:14, Revelation 20:2-4, 2 Peter 3:8, Luke 21:24) and then Antichrist will be born. (Revelation 13:11-18)

News alert: it’s the year 2009. That’s two thousand nine. A thousand years has long past.

As I said before, SHW, the only way you can come up with your Amillennial, eschatological theory is by spiritualizing and allegorizing the prophetic Scriptures. “Christian” cults do the same thing. As did the Gnostics in the first century before them.

 

[SHW]

Show me in Matt. 28:19-20 where Jesus commands them to preach that the Kingdom is “at hand.” Show me in the historical account of Acts where Peter, James, Philip, Stephen, John or Paul ever preached that message of the kingdom.

Truth is, it wasn’t a kingdom message they took to the world, but the message of Divine redemption through the cross, and salvation by grace through faith in the risen Christ alone.News alert: it’s the year 2009. That’s two thousand nine. A thousand years has long past.

As I said before, SHW, the only way you can come up with your Amillennial, eschatological theory is by spiritualizing and allegorizing the prophetic Scriptures. “Christian” cults do the same thing. As did the Gnostics in the first century before them.

Hi MD,

A “thousand years” is a symbolic number and it means “a long time.” It is not to be taken literally.

Jesus stated "But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.” Matthew 26:29

When did Jesus drink of the fruit of this vine (wine) again?

John 19:30 “So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.”

Jesus drank of the vine (wine) on the cross in His Father’s kingdom.

He also ate and drank with the apostles in His kingdom after His resurrection:

Acts 10:39-42 “And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they[a] killed by hanging on a tree. 40 Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42 And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead.”

The kingdom is here. We are already in it and we will remain in it if we continue to abide in Christ and do not commit mortal sins which cut us off from His kingdom. We must be working continuously to perfect our faith in order to be counted worthy to inherit eternal life when we die.

Colossians 1:21-23 “And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.”

The apostles and disciples preached the gospel of the kingdom of God and their successors are still doing so.

Matthew 24:14 “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.”

1 Thessalonians 2:9 “For you remember, brethren, our labor and toil; for laboring night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, we preached to you the gospel of God.”

He does not state how soon He will return. He just states that the end will come after the gospel of the kingdom has been preached to all the nations.

There is only one gospel.

Galatians 1:9 “As we have said before, so now I say again,** if anyone preaches any other gospel** to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.”

Pax,
SHW

 

[SHW]

AFTER the church, the Bride of Christ, is taken up to be with her Lord, the “gospel of the kingdom” that was preached by John the Baptist, Christ and His disciples during His earthly ministry, the message that it was “at hand” (Matt. 3:2; 4:17; 10:7), will be preached again by Jews to the whole world just prior to the King’s second Advent. No doubt it will be by those 144,000 mentioned in Rev. 7:4-8. It was preached by Jews then, it will preached by Jews again.

Actually, it is the two witnesses, Enoch and Elijah, who witness to the Jews, not Jesus nor anyone else. These two men have not died yet because Jesus plans to send them to witness to the Jews when the Antichrist is alive. The Jews will recognize them and the Jews will then be converted to Jesus’ Church.

Revelation 11:2-7 “But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. 5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire. 7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.”

144,000 is another “symbolic” number. 12 x 12,000 equals 144,000. It is not to be taken literally and neither is “thousand years” is to be taken literally. (2 Peter 3:8)

I’ve read it many times. The “gospel of the kingdom” is not the “gospel of grace” which is being preached to the world during this church age (Acts 20:24; Gal. 1:6; Phil. 1:7).

There is only one gospel. This one gospel includes everything that Jesus and the Apostles/disciples taught.

1 Thessalonians 4:1-7 “Finally then, brethren, we urge and exhort in the Lord Jesus that you should abound more and more, just as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God; 2** for you know what commandments we gave you through the Lord Jesus**. 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also forewarned you and testified. 7 For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness.”

1 Corinthians 14:37 “If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.”

2 Thessalonians 2:15 “Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.”

The gospel of Jesus is taught by His Church. Everything His Church teaches is His gospel. The Church speaks for Him:

Luke 10:16 "He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.”

In this scene it is ONLY the Gentiles nations (Gr. ethnê) on earth at that time that are being brought before Him. He is not judging them but separating them by their identity. Those who are His “sheep” are placed on His right, the “goats” on His left. He is not judging their works to determine their destination, but their identity is what determines that. His sheep are ushered into His Kingdom, the goats cast off.

There is only one Judgment Day and it is called the Day of the Lord. The sheep enter into eternal life and the goats go into hellfire for eternity.

Matt. 25:31-32 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.”

Yes, after Jesus returns and gathers all to Him in the air at His Second Coming, then Jesus returns to His throne and sits on this throne in order to judge all of the peoples of all of the nations, including Israel.

1 Corinthians 5:4-5 “In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”

1 Thessalonians 5:2 “For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.”

Apocalyptic literature is mostly allegorical and it uses many symbolic numbers and phrases. The Church teaches which things should be taken literally and which ones should not, when necessary. She is more concerned that we always be ready for death because our own deaths bring about our own particular judgments which determine where we will each spend eternity.

Pax,
SHW