What draws you to the Eastern Church?

[ByzCathCantor]

Greetings ByzCathCantor,

Thanks for the attached file. I looked through it and see why you gave the warning. I am accustomed to praying the LOTH offices all of them. Perhaps for today, I can try to pray the Daily Office. It will be interesting to do a side by side comparison.

If I was interested in getting the books, where would I need to go? I am assuming you can find these on Amazon?

Are you guys on a Three year cycle like the Western Church for Sundays? Do we have the same readings in Mass?

God Bless,
Anathama Sit

The best compendium out there IMO is the Byzantine Daily Worship, by none other than your new favorite author, +Archbishop Joseph Raya. However, its a little hard to come by. Also, different particular churches may have their own version (the Ruthenians do not).

I do believe Eastern Christian Publications puts out a comprehensive volume. ECP is publishing this Daily Office file that I shared with you earlier.

And no three year cycle. The Byzantine Liturgical Year begins on September 1. There is a common cycle or worship and readings which varies only for moveable feast days (same reading for an individual feast, just matched to the date on which the moveable feast falls that calendar year).

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Greetings Phillip Rolfes,

What would be awesome is a Kindle edition. Have you heard anything about this on the byzcath forums?

Thanks for sharing with me where to get these books. I have looked through the prayers that were sent that had to do with today, I find them so beautiful. I am thrilled to actually pray these.

God Bless,
Anathama Sit

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Greetings ByzCathCantor,

Thanks for the attached file. I looked through it and see why you gave the warning. I am accustomed to praying the LOTH offices all of them. Perhaps for today, I can try to pray the Daily Office. It will be interesting to do a side by side comparison.

If I was interested in getting the books, where would I need to go? I am assuming you can find these on Amazon?

Are you guys on a Three year cycle like the Western Church for Sundays? Do we have the same readings in Mass?

God Bless,
Anathama Sit

The Byzantine liturgical cycle is VERY different from the current Roman cycle. It is just a one year cycle, much like the Roman cycle prior to Paul VI’s revisions.

The main book for the celebration of the LOTH in the Byzantine tradition is the Horologion/Casoslav. As mentioned above, it is available from the Melkite Eparchy of Newton’s publishing house, Sophia Press. But, in order to properly celebrate the Hours (especially Compline, Orthros/Matins, and Vespers) one would also need the other books as well. The Octoechos, Menaion, Lenten Triodion, and Pentecostarion are all essential for the celebration of the Hours.

The great thing about the Melkite’s current edition of the Horologion is that it contains everything necessary to read the lesser Hours on one’s own. It also contains the fixed prayers for Compline, Orthros/Matins, and Vespers, as well as some of the variable prayers. But in order to fully celebrate Compline, Orthros/Matins, and Vespers, one would need the Octoechos (Book of Eight Modes/Tones), the Menaion (texts for feasts of saints and fixed major feasts), the Lenten Triodion (texts for the Great Fast/Lent), and the Pentecostarion (the texts for the entire Easter season).

Some of the books can be found on Amazon, but you’re better off going directly to the publisher in this situation.

If you do a side-by-side comparison of the Byzantine and Roman Offices, you will find almost no similarities, outside of the recitation of the Psalms.

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Greetings ByzCathCantor,

Wow the New Year starts on September 1. That’s interesting. Is there a significance to that. Is there a website that has the Eastern Church calendar in it?

I shall look into getting the book by Archbishop Raya. I want to look for more of his books when I finish The Face of God.

God Bless,
Anathama Sit

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Incidentally one can also pray the hours provided by ECP by simply purchasing the “Publican’s Prayer Book” for Morning and Evening Prayer, and the “Horologion” for the 1st, 3rd, 6th, and 9th Hours. Both books are published by Sophia Press of the Melkite Eparchy of Newton.

Ah, I had almost forgotten, and the Melkite volumes are quite good!

I understand there are plans for charging a fee for the PDF file from ECP. At the price I’ve seen quoted on the byzcath forums, one could purchase the above mentioned books for just a few dollars more and have them permanently without having to renew a subscription and incur ongoing costs.

I’d have to agree. Jack Figel will have to take this into consideration at some point.

And no announced plans for smart phone apps, Kindle, etc. as yet, although that has been suggested to ECP …

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Greetings Phillip Rolfes,

What would be awesome is a Kindle edition. Have you heard anything about this on the byzcath forums?

Thanks for sharing with me where to get these books. I have looked through the prayers that were sent that had to do with today, I find them so beautiful. I am thrilled to actually pray these.

God Bless,
Anathama Sit

A Kindle edition of the Byzantine Office? “Ain’t gonna happen” is the short answer.

I will second the suggestion that you track down a copy of +Kyr Joseph Raya’s excellent “Byzantine Daily Worship.” I’m told Alleluia Press recently republished it. You’d have to call them about it though (sorry, I don’t have their contact info). I have a copy that was given to my by a good friend, and I cherish it.

Incidentally, any writings of Archbishop Raya that you can get your hands on are worth their weight in gold, especially his books “Celebration” and “Face of God,” both available from Eastern Christian Publications.

The Byzantine prayers are very beautiful. If you want a good prayer book, I suggest the Melkite’s “Publican’s Prayer Book” and/or Eastern Christian Publication’s “Let Us Pray to the Lord” Vol. 1 (volume 2 is Divine Liturgy related stuff which I don’t find useful unless you are taking the book with you to DL - something that I highly discourage).

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Greetings Phillip Rolfes,

Wow this sounds like a lot of books and some investing. Thanks for sharing with me what I would exactly need. I probably will go through the publisher. I’ll probably start off basic with the Morning and Evening offices and then if and when I am ready, I’ll pray the lesser offices.

Now this may make some cringe, but do you think it would be okay if I would pray the Daily Office in the Morning and Evening, and then pray the Roman LOTH the rest of the hours. That way I can keep with all the prayers and yet experience more of the Eastern prayers. I know some would see this as a travesty, but is there something that would be very terribly wrong as in going against something huge if I did this?

God Bless,
Antahama Sit

[Thank you fellows for helping me with these questions. I have a feeling this thread may grow rapidly in the next few days.]

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Wow the New Year starts on September 1. That’s interesting. Is there a significance to that.

Well, the Jewish New Year (Rosh HaShanah) normally falls in September, right? Remember your roots! The joy of Orthodoxy!

Is there a website that has the Eastern Church calendar in it?

Depends on whether you follow the “Old” or “New” Calendar

Boy, are you getting a crash course!

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Greetings Phillip Rolfes and ByzCathCantor,

Rats, the Kindle would have been so convienent. I shall look into the Melkite books that you both recommend. Thank you both.

God Bless,
Anathama Sit

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Basically for the Morning (aka Orthros or Matins) and Evening (aka Vespers) Offices you will not need the Horologion. There is simply no way someone can celebrate those Offices in the private of their homes since they are written in such a way that one needs not only a congregation, but also a stand to hold all the books necessary for a full celebration. A word of warning too, for a complete celebration of Orthros according to the Liturgical books, it will take no less than 2 hours! Vespers can take anywhere from 1 to 1.5 hours depending on whether or not the full texts are sung, or pastoral abbreviations are taken. (Pastoral abbreviations are very common among the Byzantines).

If you are looking for a Morning and Evening Office like the one posted in the PDF from Eastern Christian Publications, then what you want to find is a good Byzantine prayer book like the “Publican’s Prayer Book” or “Let Us Pray to the Lord, Vol. 1.” If you like the translation of the PDF, then go with the “Let Us Pray to the Lord” book. I personally prefer the “Publican’s Prayer Book” for my prayers. I like the translation better, and for morning prayers there is more involved.

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Greetings ByzCathCantor,

Oh the Jews I had forgotten. Okay that makes sense.

Uhhh the calendar question. I had hoped we would not have to address this. Any website on this that would be very basic. Why Old and New? Did Vatican II have something to do with this?

Which brings up another great idea for a thread. How did Vatican II affect the Eastern Churches? [hmmm I should go start that one.]

Yeah this is a crash course. I’m going to print this thread out and read it over and over to get it learned. Of course I am praying to the Holy Spirit too, and that helps very much.

God Bless,
Anathama Sit

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Greetings Phillip Rolfes and ByzCathCantor,

Rats, the Kindle would have been so convienent. I shall look into the Melkite books that you both recommend. Thank you both.

God Bless,
Anathama Sit

The Melkites books are voluminous. Here’s the list:

Octoechos = 4 volumes
Menaion = 12 volumes
Lenten Triodion = 4 volumes (possibly 5?)
Pentecostarion = 4 volumes

Each of those books ranges anywhere in price from $20 - $40(ish). The Horologion itself is $40 for the hardback edition, and $65 for the leather. So the complete set will run you a pretty penny.

It’s seriously best to start with the “Byzantine Daily Worship” if you want a prayer rule closer to the liturgical Hours. I cannot recommend the BDW highly enough.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Oh, nearly forgot to mention; there shouldn’t be any problem if you want to pray the Byzantine Morning and Evening prayers and the Roman Hours. I go over to the Roman Hours occasionally just because I like their focus on the Psalms, their brevity, and their convenience (you only need one book!!!).

 

[ByzCathCantor]

I will second the suggestion that you track down a copy of +Kyr Joseph Raya’s excellent “Byzantine Daily Worship.” I’m told Alleluia Press recently republished it. You’d have to call them about it though (sorry, I don’t have their contact info).

That’s right! I now recall a recent thread on the Byzcath Forum.

Alleluia Press
672 Franklin Turnpike
P.O. Box 103
Allendale, NJ 07401-3513
(201) 327-3513

BTW - I love the use of the title “Kyr”. My daughter’s name is the female version, Kyra. She lives up to the name!

 

[ByzCathCantor]

It’s seriously best to start with the “Byzantine Daily Worship” if you want a prayer rule closer to the liturgical Hours. I cannot recommend the BDW highly enough.

And I couldn’t agree more! FYI - I just posted the address and number for Alleluia Press.

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Greetings Phillip Rolfes,

I will take that suggestion. You’re right that’s a lot of books. And I thought the Roman Rite used a lot of books.

Byzantine Daily Worship it is.

I am glad that I can pray both traditions of the Church. I don’t want to give up the Roman Rite, but I would like to incorporate the richness and beauty of the Eastern Rites as well.

Greetings ByzCathCantor,

Thanks for the contact information.

God Bless You Both,
Anathama Sit

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Ah, I had almost forgotten, and the Melkite volumes are quite good!

I’d have to agree. Jack Figel will have to take this into consideration at some point.

And no announced plans for smart phone apps, Kindle, etc. as yet, although that has been suggested to ECP …

Yes, obviously I’m a huge fan of the Melkite books. Archbishop Raya’s translations are very prayerful, and after reading his books it really helps me to enter even more deeply into those prayers. The rest of the translations, I believe, really tried to capture the spirit within which Raya did his translations.

As to whether or not ECP will take what I mentioned into consideration… I have no comment. I know smart phone apps and Kindle apps will be slow in coming.

Incidentally, I used to work for ECP.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Uhhh the calendar question. I had hoped we would not have to address this. Any website on this that would be very basic. Why Old and New? Did Vatican II have something to do with this?

No, its what we politely call “Latinization”

In the Ruthenian world, many follow the New Calendar (in common with the Latin Church).

However, our “Mother Church” (church of origin) in Mukachevo, Ukraine, follows the Old Calendar, as does our “big cousin” Church, the UGCC (with its “Mother Church” in Kiev, Ukraine).

In a perfect world, we ECs would all be on the Old Calendar, as per Orthodox custom.

I’m actually hoping that this becomes the first step towards Catholic-Orthodox reunion - a common calendar for Pascha (Easter)!

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

I am glad that I can pray both traditions of the Church. I don’t want to give up the Roman Rite, but I would like to incorporate the richness and beauty of the Eastern Rites as well.

If this is the case, then the BDW would be ideal for you. Not only will you get the complete fixed texts for all the Hours, but Kyr Raya also included a good selection from the other books I mentioned. He also included the proper order for reciting the Psalms (something unfortunately not included in the current Melkite Horologion), although the entire book of Psalms is not contained in the BDW. When you get a copy, go the the section titled “Pentecostarion” and read the texts for Easter Sunday (aka Pascha). Those are my favorites. I’m nearly in tears every time I read them.

Oh, and the BDW also contains the complete fixed texts for the DLs of St. John Chrysostom and St. Basil, as well as Paraklesis (Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos), and other treasures. You’ll really love it.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

And I couldn’t agree more! FYI - I just posted the address and number for Alleluia Press.

Thanks for posting that. I’ve never actually ordered anything from them, so I didn’t have the information. The BDW was given to me by a friend. I also have a copy of the Septuagint Psalms that they published. That book was a gift to my mother from a family friend. It remained her favorite translation of the Psalms throughout her battle with cancer. It is now one of my treasured possessions and makes me think of her every time I open it. Incidentally it’s the translation of the Psalms used by the Melkites here in the U.S. Who’d have thought my Roman mother would fall in love with the Melkite tradition without even knowing it.