What draws you to the Eastern Church?

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Greetings Phillip Rolfes,

Oh thank you so much for your last post. I was so scared someone was going to jump down my throat and claimed I was polluting both Traditions. I think my Eastern lung is taking it’s first breaths of air and I find it quite refreshing. It’s like going out for a hike and breathing in that fresh mountain air after the afternoon rain.

I’ll run this by my SD, I don’t see him raising an objection to it, in fact I might see that we may be saying Evening offices together. 👍

God Bless,
Anathama Sit
 
Greetings ByzCathCantor,

So this is the calendar issue. Was the Roman Catholic Church with the Old Calendar before Vatican II?

I am guessing that the Eastern Calendar precedes the Latin calendar? Did not the Church use one Universal calendar before there was a break, and if so, what is that calendar?

God Bless,
Anathama Sit
 
The Eastern traditions can be quite refreshing for us Westerners. I also believe that the Western tradition can be quite refreshing for Easterners. We need each other after all.

The best way to learn about Eastern or Western Christianity is to enter into their prayer life. You already say the Jesus Prayer. Good. The other prayers will deepen your use of the Jesus Prayer. I think that you’ll also find that the more you pray from the Eastern tradition, the more you’ll realize that the Jesus Prayer really does sum up our prayer life. 👍
 
Short of getting a hold of a copy of the Byzantine Daily Worship or its little companion, the Byzantine Book of Prayer, here’s a link to a Byzantine Prayer Book that was made publicly available on the internet some time ago.

archive.org/details/ByzantineCatholicPrayerForTheHome

And may +Kyr Joseph Raya’s memory be eternal! His works became classics in his own time and continue to nourish us spiritually!

P.S. Signing off for the evening …
 
Greetings ByzCathCantor,

Thanks so much. And have a pleasant and restful night.

I’ll check that link too. 😛 I have so much reading and learning to do. I think that tonight was such a huge blessing with you and Phillip helping me out.

God Bless,
Anathama Sit
 
Greetings Phillip Rolfes,

I think maybe the Jesus prayer can be a good summation of Eastern thoughts and practices, but I’m not sure I can say this De Fide.

God Bless,
Anathama Sit
 
Anathama_Sit said:
Greetings ByzCathCantor,

So this is the calendar issue. Was the Roman Catholic Church with the Old Calendar before Vatican II?

I am guessing that the Eastern Calendar precedes the Latin calendar? Did not the Church use one Universal calendar before there was a break, and if so, what is that calendar?

God Bless,
Anathama Sit
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The Roman Church was not on the “Old Calendar” prior to Vatican II, although Vatican II did revise the Roman Calendar a bit, but that was mostly for saints feast days.

The Eastern calendar simply precedes the Latin one in that the Julian calendar (liturgically known as the Old Calendar) was in public use prior to the Gregorian calendar (the one in use among Roman Catholics and some Eastern Catholics today).

The Julian calendar was the one in use prior to the East-West Schism. However, that doesn’t mean that there was an agreed upon date for Easter (which is the central issue around the calendar controversies). Throughout the Patristic period there were many debates over the proper dating of Easter, and these were not always East-West debates. The disagreement over the date of Easter was rarely if ever used as a reason for schism until recently. It’s another case of theology being used to “justify” a schism after the fact.
 
Anathama_Sit said:
Greetings Phillip Rolfes,

I think maybe the Jesus prayer can be a good summation of Eastern thoughts and practices, but I’m not sure I can say this De Fide.

God Bless,
Anathama Sit
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That would be the contention of many Eastern Catholic and Orthodox theologians. 👍
 
I must sign off for the night too, although I hate to leave such a fun and uplifting discussion. Peace and blessings to you, Anathema. If you feel like you need more questions answered, feel free to PM me some time. 😃

ICXC + NIKA,
Phillip
 
Greetings Phillip Rolfes,

Thanks so much for simply and succintly stating what the Calendar issue is. I am sure if both unite then this will be fixed the way that God wants it to be fixed. 😃 After the Holy Spirit guides all of us.

Sleep with the angels. I have enjoyed this moring immensely. I am sending you a friendship request.

And The Jesus Prayer leads to a deeper and closer Union with God through a spiritaulity of humility and love. [Correct me if I am wrong.] I like this… this is so where I am.

God Bless,
Anathama Sit
 
Just a quick point though, the reason for the Gregorian revision of the Julian calendar was that the Julian was losing time. It was off by thirteen days in the sixteenth century and must be approaching a month by now. Other than that I must plead ignorance to the religious differences involved.
 
Greetings Inego de Loyola,

I too was aware of that. I too am pretty ignorant why the differences are there. But at least both Churches celebrate Easter and all the Other High and Holy Days. I guess my approach was what is common between both calendars.

Off hand I can see a lot of the same feasts celebreated between the Churches. Both put an empahsis on Easter and Christmas. I am sure there are more similarities than I can see now, I am blinded by ignorance at this point.

God Bless,
Anathama Sit
 
Anathama_Sit said:
I can understand why Eastern Cathlics would abstain from animal products, but what is the significance of abstaining from olive oil?
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I was taught that this comes from the traditional storing of olive oil in animals skins as was wine. Since animal product from the skins might contaminate the olive oil it was also not allowed.
 
ByzCathCantor said:
The best compendium out there IMO is the Byzantine Daily Worship, by none other than your new favorite author, +Archbishop Joseph Raya. However, its a little hard to come by. Also, different particular churches may have their own version (the Ruthenians do not).
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According to Jack Figel a few weeks ago
Yes, I [ECP] am working with God With Us Publications to produce a slightly revised and improved version. We are in the final stages of production and hope to have books available in a month or two.
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Greetings 5Loaves,

Oh okay this makes sense. What if Olive oil is the only oil you use because it is the most healthy of the oils and I am allergic to cocunut oil? Can there be an exception made, like equal to the dispensation in the Roman Rite?

Thank you.

God Bless,
Anathama Sit
 
Greetings 5Loaves,

Then I shall hang on for another two monthes before buying the book. Thanks for the heads up on this one.

God Bless,
Anathama Sit
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
Incidentally one can also pray the hours provided by ECP by simply purchasing the “Publican’s Prayer Book” for Morning and Evening Prayer, and the “Horologion” for the 1st, 3rd, 6th, and 9th Hours. Both books are published by Sophia Press of the Melkite Eparchy of Newton.

I understand there are plans for charging a fee for the PDF file from ECP. At the price I’ve seen quoted on the byzcath forums, one could purchase the above mentioned books for just a few dollars more and have them permanently without having to renew a subscription and incur ongoing costs.

On the other hand, you would not receive the daily reminder for prayer, and the books can be rather bulky to carry around throughout one’s day.
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Jack was on Light of the East two weeks ago, #384: Prayer in the Eastern Churches. He gave a very clear explanation of the product, which includes daily pdf via email for the prayers for the saints of the day and the special pre and post festal changes. Putting all that together each day requires a small library, including the typicon for that year and the time and skill to put it all together.

Jack’s goal in doing that and providing daily pdfs for the special prayers of the particular day is to encourage more people to pray these prayers. There is a new typicon each year so getting this year’s daily Office from ECP will not give you the universal prayers for next year, etc. (ECP is using the typicon for the Byzantine/Ruthenian Church.)

Choice of old calendar or new calendar available for Pascha

I very much like the Publican’s Prayer Book, and Horologion from Sophia Press, as well as the Jordanville Prayerbook. What Jack is offering in the Byzantine Daily Office in digital form is quite different in its completeness for the universal daily common prayers plus the special prayers/tropars for the saints of the day and special pre and post festal prayer changes. Prayers are done differently on Sundays. Every year is specific as per the typicon for that year.

Matins and Vespers are not included since those are intended as communal prayer, so Morning and Evening prayers are substituted.

He said on Light of the East probable cost equal to 25 cents per day. Email info@ecpubs.com for the Byzantine Daily Office

Let me say Jack does amazing work for the Body of Christ.👍 This is not a money maker for him, tho I hope he brings in some money from this. He has kept the Orientale Lumen Conferences going all these years at considerable personal cost.

They are also preparing lectures and music from their OLTV library for new format to be available on itunes.

I hope people will find these offerings useful. 🙂

P.S. I’m not a Kindle user but since the Byzantine Daily Office ECP is being offered electronically and the daily emails contain pdf for the particular prayer of the day/of the pre post feast, would that not down load to a Kindle?
 
Anathama_Sit said:
Oh okay this makes sense. What if Olive oil is the only oil you use because it is the most healthy of the oils and I am allergic to cocunut oil? Can there be an exception made, like equal to the dispensation in the Roman Rite?
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Fasting in the East is done with the guidance of a spiritual father. Exceptions are often made.
Anathama_Sit said:
I fudge a bit when I have hardboiled eggs. How else can you get protien if you do not eat animal products? I am sure butter is out too right?
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Butter is a dairy product. We cease those on Cheesefare Sunday.
BTW, I think wikipedia is an excellent resource. It usually contains what is on OrthodoxWiki plus more.

Shell fish are not considered fish-- fish have a backbone-- and are permitted. Our previous pastor, an excellent cook, usually brought a dish with some sort of shell fish and always encouraged eating shell fish. I have yet to develop a taste for them, but I haven’t entirely given up. 🙂

Protein in the Vegan Diet Get thee to the library. Most libraries have plenty of vegan cook books these days.

We are old calendar so this week, week following the Sunday of the Publican and the Pharisee, is fast free for us. 🙂 My son and I have a date for a milkshake today.

You know you’re Orthodox if …
*On Wednesdays and Fridays you eat Japanese food.
*You typically celebrate a feast day by observing strict fasting.
*Lent to you means peanut butter, tofu, soy, lots and lots of pita bread and hummus, and services at least five times a week
*At the end of Holy Week, you have rug burns on your forehead.
…
 
Anathema:

Since this thread is in particular directed those Eastern Catholics and/or Orthodox, I feel like I should ask- can I post what draws me to the Eastern Church, Lutheran that I am?
 
Greetings ThatOneGuy92,

Yes by all means do so. I am very interested in what is drawing you to the Churches of the East.

I can hardly wait to read your response, and thanks for asking.

God Bless,
Anathama Sit
 
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