What exactly does this whole submission to the husband thing mean?

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Why are you starting a second thread on a topic we already have one active discussion thread going on for a couple days now?

Can you not join the existing, ongoing discussion there? Somebody already linked it for you above.
 
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Yes. I love my wife. Her happiness, to me, is more important than mine. Luckily, she feels the same way towards me. We are a team, a union, so we look out for each other.
 
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Yeah that’s how I feel. Besides, why can’t the wife have her own mission? Just because her husband is deeply committed to Christ doesn’t mean that he’s going to know how to lead in all situations. He might be very poor at handling finances.

Besides I don’t want to lead at all. It’s really weird to say to men, “you have to lead”

Why
 
Le_Crouton said:
Besides, why can’t the wife have her own mission?
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“The two become one body.”
Le_Crouton said:
Besides I don’t want to lead at all. It’s really weird to say to men, “you have to lead”
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There are many styles of leadership. Some are more top-down, and others are more collaborative.

In my experience, relationships (business, personal, or otherwise) break down when more than one person tries to lead, and those who should be following the direction of the leader go off in their own direction. Every relationship is different, and structures itself differently. If your form of leadership is to say, “honey, you’re in charge – go for it!”, then you’ve exercised leadership! 😉
 
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Two people in a row boat. Each one rowing in their own direction.
 
Sorry but two people can lead in different areas and still make the row boat go in the same direction

Mom could be in charge of kids and dad could be in charge of finances.
 
So long as the breakdown of responsibilities is agreed upon and not forced upon I guess it’s okay. It still feels weird though. Like just because I was born a man I am supposed to lead?
 
Lea101 said:
Imo, I feel like this is a bit oversimplified.
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Yes, it is, and let’s not forget that every day women get married in the Church to men who are not “deeply committed to Christ”. Often the wife is the more religious one in the family, and the husband may even be a non-Christian or an agnostic or an atheist.

While it’s a nice thought to picture the man leading his wife and children closer to Christ or God, often what actually happens is the other way around, or something completely different such as a child of the couple leading them both closer to God.
 
As the Talmud states: “Be careful if you make a woman (wife) cry; Gd counts her tears.” In my own family, my paternal grandparents, who were traditional Orthodox Jews (non-Chasidic), both worked and neither was submissive to the other. It was a partnership much as the partnership between Gd and mankind.
 
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Let’s just say the Irish Catholic culture has never promoted the idea of submissive wives.
Especially in USA.
 
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Needless to say, neither. Although not an exact analogy, each spouse does their share in a marriage so that the notion of dominance or submission is not even entertained.
 
Le_Crouton said:
Yeah that’s how I feel. Besides, why can’t the wife have her own mission? Just because her husband is deeply committed to Christ doesn’t mean that he’s going to know how to lead in all situations. He might be very poor at handling finances.

Besides I don’t want to lead at all. It’s really weird to say to men, “you have to lead”

Why
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Yeah. To be fair though, the Church admits that submission looks different in every marriage depending on time and culture.

Which begs the question ‘what does “in everything” mean?’

Some would say it refers to men taking charge spiritually, although I don’t know how that looks in reality. And the same people would say that if the woman is more religious, she should take charge. Then wouldn’t it be a matter of who’s religious then? I don’t know. It’s odd for me.

I’m not against the idea of submitting, because we need to do that in all relationships. It’s more to do with the ‘head of the house’ concept tbh (a hierarchy). Even if I’m at the top.
Gorgias said:
In my experience, relationships (business, personal, or otherwise) break down when more than one person tries to lead, and those who should be following the direction of the leader go off in their own direction.
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Like this for example, is it necessary to have a leader? In a relationship of two people? Two people at odds will lead to a breakdown, but I don’t know if that means that one should always have to be the leader. We don’t have that in friendships, for instance.
 
Lea101 said:
I don’t know if that means that one should always have to be the leader. We don’t have that in friendships, for instance.
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‘Friendship’ is a much more casual and occasional relationship then ‘spouse’, though, wouldn’t you say? In any case, in every relationship, there is leadership that is exercised. How that is exercised depends on the dynamic of the relationship. I think that the Church is merely saying “start here”, rather than “follow this strict script” (at least, in the current day).
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Why are you starting a second thread on a topic we already have one active discussion thread going on for a couple days now?
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Are you asking whether this thread should submit to the other one? 🤔 🤣
 
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This has a chance of working in a situation you describe. But, what happens when you remove the religious and ethical system that supports this arrangement. When society seems to be in a free-fall and every value is constantly questioned and challenged, is there a chance for the arrangement you describe to survive?
 
It is easy to submit to a man who shows his wife he loves her as Christ loves his church,that is a man who every day lays down his life for her.
This would not be a discussion except that in our broken world we are all afraid. Men are afraid to love with totally selfless love and women are afraid to submit to any man because they have never been loved in that way.
 
Mi_Rose said:
Men are afraid to love with totally selfless love and women are afraid to submit to any man because they have never been loved in that way.
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I really don’t think that people who are or were in long happy marriages are “afraid” in the ways you describe. Each couple finds their own happy balance.

Rather, the social dynamics of marriage and the implications of the word “submission” are different in our US culture today than they were back in St. Paul’s time.
 
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