What exactly does this whole submission to the husband thing mean?

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Not really, you would get banned if you’re constantly derailing the thread with negative comments.

I’ve disagreed with a bunch of stuff and I’m still here, which I’m sure bothers a lot lol!
 
Even someone who was a servant, in the ancient world, was expected to speak up and warn his master if he was doing something stupid.

In Jewish culture, wives were supposed to be enterprising, clever, always looking out for a way to help out the family or make life better for people outside the family who needed help. They ran stuff and had their own businesses; the husband did oversight when needed, and only then. That is why we have stuff like the Valiant Woman passage in Proverbs, or the story of Abigail.

The idea that God made woman from the man’s side, because she was made to stand beside him, and not be under or over him, is an ancient interpretation. The saying that “man is the head of the family but woman is the neck,” is almost as old.

When husbands use their authority properly and lightly, unless the situation is important, wives can know when they mean it.

If wives do not bother husbands about unimportant matters that are well within wifely authority, and they act wisely and in a trustworthy way, husbands will know they can trust their wives.
 
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Watch this! I haven´t seen it in whole but I know that it´s a great YouTube canal.

 
Move to another country!? How exciting! Lucky her! My daughter & her husband are planning the same as soon as he gets out of the military. They’re currently in the Country Shopping process right now. So far they’ve been to Canada, Italy, Russia, Japan, & France. Next up Greece & Australia.

We are all Catholics first before a citizen of any country and the Catholic Church is a Universal Church, so even if they were to move to Antarctica, there’s a Catholic parish there, too. In Saudi Arabia the parishes are pretty much underground like they had been in Russia for nearly a century, but they don’t seem interested in it at all.
 
I am of an age where many start to develop dementia both male and female. For those who say the husband makes all decisions when does that start if he goes down that long scary road? When he makes irrational purchases does she take over shopping? When he doesn’t pay the bills does she take that over? On whose authority?
Our marriage does now and will in future wirk better when we each make decisions based on our abilities not our gender.
 
Lea101 said:
Most modern marriages I know have a similar set up, where the person who ‘wears the pants’ changes naturally from time to time. But ultimately when confronted they would say that there’s no leader
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And they would be mistaken in asserting that. Clearly, there is leadership. It’s just that it’s not cast in stone. That’s ok, too, as long as the couple agrees on it. That, then, too would be an example of a husband ‘leading’ by sharing the leadership role. No problems there. But, it would be wrong to say “oh, there’s no leader.” Oh… there most definitely is. 😉
 
I like the idea of being counterparts. I don’t know if a man and a woman can be equals. However, we can be equivalent. That is not the exact term I would like to use to describe it but it does carry some of the essentials. Obviously women can be better at some things and men cannot and visa versa. The marriage reality is such that two diverse and distinct individuals create unlimited potential. You wouldn’t want one of the individuals more controlling than the other. Freedom is the source of innovation.
 
Oh my goodness!

Of course, women have intelligence. My goodness! My husband is laughing & he says I’m smarter than him! Lol.

Jesus chose fishermen, not scholars, to lead His Church. But He gave them the Holy Spirit and wisdom to lead and in the same way Jesus blesses Catholic husbands with the ability to lead his wife and children. Husbands are imperfect humans and sometimes they can get things wrong, just like us, so just like us, when they make a mistake, they get back up and try again with the support of their wife because they’re not alone in this salvation journey, they have real partner.

It sounds like several people here might have a very erroneous assumption that a wife who’s submissive isn’t using her intellect on a moment to moment basis and isn’t discussing anything with her husband. From mundane things to the biggest issue.

You specifically mentioned tampons… if he wanted cheaper ones to fit the budget… a submissive wife would definitely use her voice and explain why she wants the brand she wants & discuss with him all the other brands she’s used and how they didn’t work out and then she’d use her mind to offer another way to lower expenses. What she wouldn’t do is just tell him NO, instead she’d have a discussion. As a loving husband, who wants to please his wife might for example either decide to have her try a less expensive brand that she’d never tried before just in case it could work as you never know until you try OR may decide to lower expenses by cutting the budget in another area.

A submissive wife isn’t at all a doormat nor is she a bully demanding her own way. Neither is a loving husband a tyrant. Not at all.
 
LumineDiei said:
From Casti Cannubi - “nor does it bid her obey her husband’s every request if not in harmony with right reason”… right reason would imply she has a just cause for making her own decision on something.
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To me it sounds as though this section of Casti Cannubi you’re quoting from is for women who are married to a non-practocing Christian…like a wife for example would never be required to go against Catholicism… for example, a woman married a drug addict and he wants her to prostitute herself for drug money for him, um Nope. Prostitution, along with anything that is direct opposition to living a Catholic life, is definitely Not “in harmony with right reason”. I’d venture to guess that in most Catholic marriages, a request of this sort (not in harmony with right reason) would never happen, not even once.

Key word of the quote: “IF”. The only time a wife is not to obey her husband’s every request is “IF” his request(s) are NOT “in harmony with right reason”, according to this quote you provided.

A loving husband isn’t a tyrant. There is tremendous freedom in obedience.
 
BCathB said:
So is correct for an husband to renounce sometimes to his wish in order to please the wife?
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Oh, absolutely. A man should be not only willing to give up his wish for his wife’s happiness, but should be eager to. After all, “husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her.”
 
I would suppose that we only submit as long as he leads us rightly and towards God.
As I see it marriage is based on him leading with you. He is supposed to lead the family.
A good leader has good intentions and listens to people. If he in someway makes himself unworthy of that position (ex: beating his wife, being unfaithful, not letting her go to Church etc.) then we should not sumbit.
HopkinsReb said:
Oh, absolutely. A man should be not only willing to give up his wish for his wife’s happiness, but should be eager to. After all, “husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her.”
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He needs to love his wife, and a man who purely loves his wife and that also loves God is a man to sumbit to.
 
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Kima said:
He needs to love his wife, and a man who purely loves his wife and that also loves God is a man to sumbit to.
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I’m very glad that my wife takes this approach with me. She has a perfect track record of submitting to me when I COMMAND HER with my husbandly authority to do whatever she wants to do.
 
Lol. Your comment reminded me of some parenting advice one of my uncles once gave my dad and all my other uncles at Thanksgiving: “Listen, I’ve learned the way to get our kids to obey!!! It REALLY works!! Okay, so here’s what you do…Just tell them to do what they’re already doing! It works, 80% of the time!” Lol.
 
Wife.of.Gabriel said:
Now, if the husband doesn’t obey God’s Will to love his wife that’s between him and God. He’ll be responsible to answer for that. Just as the wife will answer for not obeying God’s Will of she chooses to disobey her husband. And like the Bible verse you quoted, through her obedience het husband may be saved.
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So, if a husband tells his Catholic wife to go on the pill, she needs to go on the pill? Or if he wants unnatural sexual acts, she needs to comply?

Your views are a very poor fit with Catholic tradition, which does expect that wives are moral agents, and that we can’t get away with the “I was just following orders” excuse.
 
Mi_Rose said:
or those who say the husband makes all decisions when does that start if he goes down that long scary road? When he makes irrational purchases does she take over shopping? When he doesn’t pay the bills does she take that over? On whose authority?
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Yeah. When a person has dementia or mental illness, they’re not going to have a flashing neon sign over them saying DEMENTIA or BIPOLAR. One of the first symptoms may be really, really bad decisions, and a wife who just says, “Whatever you want to do, honey!” and goes along with it is not serving her husband well.
 
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And if the husband is a foolish man? My grandfather was a wonderful man, but on financial matters he was, to put it mildly, inept. My grandmother basically managed not just household finances, but the entire family’s finances, including doing her own investing. Strictly speaking, she went over my grandfather’s head on many an occasion, even to the point of at one time forbidding him to buy a new truck because their financial situation would not permit it. Was she a bad wife?
 
Scenario one:
DH: Woman, I told you to stop wasting my money on that expensive toilet paper! Buy the cheap stuff!
Wife: Yes, dear.
Scenario two:
DH: Hon, I was looking over our finances and things are getting a little tight. Let’s say we cut some corners somewhere, like maybe try using a cheaper tp?
Wife: Well, I’m a little concerned about how that’ll be on our behinds but I’m certainly will to try your idea.

Scenario one:
Wife: I’m sorry but X, Y, and Z happened and I wasn’t able to get dinner made. Can we go out?
DH: I work hard all day and I’m tired and I expect dinner on the table.
Scenario two:
Wife: I’m sorry but X,Y, and Z happened and I wasn’t able to get dinner made. Can we go out?
Dh: I’m a little too tired for that right now. Why don’t you slice up some cheese and I’ll go downstairs and find a wine to have with it. We’ll keep things simple tonight.

Scenario one:
DH: I got a new job offer, be ready to move next month.
Wife: Yes, dear.
Scenario two:
DH: Mildred, I have a chance to improve my career but we’d have to move to X. I know this will cause some havoc but we can work together to make things go smoothly.
Wife: Wow, that sounds exciting! Home is anywhere we’re together. Let’s start planning!

One scenario shows the mutual love and respect St. Paul was writing about and the other shows the abuse of a perceived authority that St. Paul surely didn’t intend.

My hubby and I have been married over 30 years. We argue. We compromise. Sometimes his ideas win out. Sometimes mine do. But you’re in it together with the idea of getting to heaven together so you work together.

I this case, I don’t think we should be asking “What would Jesus do?” but perhaps " How would St Joseph treat Jesus’s mom?"
 
I feel like many of the examples here are just not reality. I get that the husband is supposed to be the spiritual head…but in our relationship I’m the more religious one and it was my idea for us to look into Catholicism. My husband is the head of the family in that the kids see him as more of the authority figure and they would definitely rather get into trouble with me than him. Lol. But I almost feel like the whole “husbands love as you love the church and wives submit to…” is more just an example of two counterparts that work together, mutually sacrificing for each other…because if it were literal, to me at least, I feel like the “submit to” is the much harder role. Because I do love my husband as Christ loves the church and I would totally give my life for him if I needed to, and he would do the same for me…and I think many other wives would feel the same as me… So it’s almost like wives just have an extra role to submit since the spouses both love each other the same and sacrifice for each other. If that makes sense.
 
Oh boy I was the disciplinarian because all our kids could play their dad like a fiddle.
 
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