What factor in 2004 makes folks feel most unable to cope with larger families?

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Are you Catholic? I don’t know that I would call that selfish. I have several non Catholic friends that have stopped at two or three kids for many of the same reasons.

I know for a fact that we will not be as well off as my parents were with my brother and I when we grew up. Not that they didn’t have to sacrafice but there were only two of us.

As far as Catholics go, however, it’s in the “rules” so to speak to us NFP for birth control ONLY if you have grave reasons. My husband’s health problems (diabetes/epilepsy) and my tendancy toward depression didn’t count as a grave reason. I don’t know exactly what would.

I personally have spent many, many hours praying about this very thing. I get violantly ill the first few months of pregnancy and basically can’t function. I have to stay in bed. I know God is trying to teach me something in those times though it’s hard to figure out what it is. I know this time it taught my older kids to be generous with their time and help out around the house. Even going so far as changing diapers and cooking many of the meals. A few people in our neighborhood think it’s awful that my kids had such responsibilities so I can have another baby. I wonder what they would think if I had cancer? Anyway, I don’t think any parent of a large family would tell you it’s easy financially, mentally or in any other way. We must trust in God, though. He knows what He’s doing.
 
Howdy ekblad7,

To answer your question, I’m not Roamn Catholic, I’m Methodist. I do understand about NFP, having read about here on the forum and then doing some further research. I guess my girlfriend is what some of you might call a “Cafeteria Catholic.” She believes in Artificial Birth Control (ABC), the 7 (?) sacraments, pro-life, anti-death penalty, etc etc. I don’t see ABC as a bad thing, despite what some of the RCC’s teachings are. Conception is a gamble anyway, so taking ABC only narrows the gap a little more. Just my opinion.
 
I took this Theology of the Body course last winter and it really opened my eyes to ABC. Not that I was ever really “for it” but the class explained so much more then the pregnancy aspect of sex to me. I would highly recommend finding a class or recording on that book if you want to understand more about the churches reasoning behind teaching NFP.
 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the RCC belief behind basically amounts to the fact it doesn’t allow for conception?
 
Well, let’s see…
Why do people believe they have to fill their children’s closets full of brand new clothes each season in order to clothe them? There are other ways to clothe children cheaper, including ebay and shopping yard sales and thrift shops where people often bring their new-with-tags clothes for donation.

Why do people believe they have to supply every physical, emotional, and spiritual need of their children? Yes, many times that desire extends out of love for them. But what ever happened to the mother and father just building the home nest and letting their children grow on their own? I don’t mean neglecting them, but with three children 1 1/2 years apart (including a newborn), there’s little way I could possibly do this.

Why don’t more people raise gardens and can their own food rather than buying everything, which is more expensive? There are many many ways to cheapen down a family’s living expenses. I thank the Lord for the families that put family first instead of things.

Yes, me me me is the society we live in. What part of the country do YOU want to live in after YOU graduate college and land the big$$$ job? What do YOU like to do in YOUR spare time? What kind of car do YOU like? What kind of house do YOU want?

As the Bible says, to everything there is a season. I would love to decorate my house nicely, but in this season of my life with two toddlers and a newborn, I must be practical. I like an older Volkswagen Bug, but get real, ONE person couldn’t fit in the back seat. I love to sew, but I have to delay my own passions in order to care for my family. Christ also said: Whoever loses his life **for my sake **will find it.
 
Joseph:

Hope someday you’ll be a fine example and model for the Catholic Christian family–as your parents were for you. Sounds like you’re surely on your way there!!

God Bless~~
 
In thinking about this subject, I remember what I overheard from my late grandfather and his six brothers. They came from a Polish Catholic family.
He and his six brothers slept in one bed in one bedroom. That is how people coped with large families.
That is not done anymore, and frankly, I don’t think that is how children should be raised.
I am not saying they, my late grandfather and his brothers should not have been born, but I am saying, is the level of care we give children now a days differs tremendously. That’s not a bad thing either, should children be sleeping six to a bed where if one wets the bed they are all laying in it?
I don’ think it’s such a great idea.
 
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mrsjackson:
I am the grandmother of six grandchildren and two on the way. My daughter and son-in-law will be the proud parents of their sixth child in February 2005, my son and daughter-in-law will be the proud parents of their second child in June 2005.
I’m sorry to see some, if not most, of the answers to the above question is money. That is the answer I believe we are seeing as being unable to cope with larger families. Where do we put our money? Who pays for college?
My daughter home schools, which is not cheep if you do it right, and when birthdays and Christmas come around, she focus’ on the meaning of the celebration, not the gifts exchanged. She directs their time and money into educational things while having fun. And, what could be more fun than celebrating their birth and the birth of Jesus?
My husband of 35 years and I enjoy our grandchildren even more than imagined because they are not greedy about gifts. The biggest gift of all is spending time together as a family.
We could afford just about anything we want to buy them, but again, spending time with family is the best gift of all.
What greater way can one fulfill God’s plan than by having children and raising them in the church?

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ByzCath:
This is something I have never understood.

There are ways to get money for college, student loans for one thing, working your way though.

Why does society see it as the job of the parent to pay for the schooling of their adult children?

I have found that those who work for it or are responsible for it (student loans) end up taking it more seriously.
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I agree to an extent, although I’ve seen many friends financially damaged by student loans. Although we do not yet have children, my husband and I have come to an agreement. We will save enough money to send our children to public college (I went to community college and then public college and got a fine education) and have them live at home. If they choose to go out of state or to a private college, they must get scholarships or pay the difference. I do not think it is responsible to damage yourself financially at the benefit of grown or near grown children.
 
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Lilyofthevalley:
In thinking about this subject, I remember what I overheard from my late grandfather and his six brothers. They came from a Polish Catholic family.
He and his six brothers slept in one bed in one bedroom. That is how people coped with large families.
That is not done anymore, and frankly, I don’t think that is how children should be raised.
I am not saying they, my late grandfather and his brothers should not have been born, but I am saying, is the level of care we give children now a days differs tremendously. That’s not a bad thing either, should children be sleeping six to a bed where if one wets the bed they are all laying in it?
I don’ think it’s such a great idea.
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ekblad7:
As far as Catholics go, however, it’s in the “rules” so to speak to us NFP for birth control ONLY if you have grave reasons. My husband’s health problems (diabetes/epilepsy) and my tendancy toward depression didn’t count as a grave reason. I don’t know exactly what would.
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Where did you hear that those reasons wouldn’t count as “grave reasons”? It’s my understanding that they would. I think each couple needs to consult their own PROPERLY FORMED conscience on this matter.

I ask this not to question your having children (congratulations about the one on the way!) but because my husband and I are discerning about our next child, and it seems like we’re deciding to wait (my daughter is 3 1/2; my son is 15 months). I had such a hard time adjusting to two children. I greatly desire more children, but I don’t think my husband is ready to see me struggle as much as I have been for the past couple years, since my pregnancy was hard too. He says I’m just starting to seem like I’ve got a grip on it all, and he’s not ready to see me go through all of that again.

I think many good points have been made in this forum, but one that strikes me is that families don’t help each other as they used to. We live close to our families, and I still found myself alone at home, watching both kids just three days after my son was born. (My husband had to go back to work.) Our families are helpful, but they also are working and busy with their own lives.

Another point that struck me was about chores. Kudos to the person who said their children have to help out much more than the neighbors’ kids. Sometimes I WISH I would have had to do more – maybe it would have better prepared me to run a household and keep things organized and running smoothly. I may have been qualified for many jobs when I married my husband, but I don’t think I was up to the requirements of a SAHM!! Luckily I’ve been able to learn on the job!

I look at families with many children and families who homeschool ( I have looked so much into this option, but we’ve decided it’s not the best one for us at this time) and desire that so much, but then question whether I have it in me to do all of that. I do want to trust in God – and I think I am, but I’m also trying to discern His will by listening to my husband and by trying to be objective about my strengths and weaknesses. This has been very hard since I’ve always liked to think I could do it all, and just having two children has shown me I definitely can’t.

We definitely want more children in the future, but I guess are going to wait a year or so, although we of course would welcome any who would come along before then:-)

Heather
 
Heather, you sound like my daughter but you aren’t quite “there” yet. Keep praying and you will be.

:tiphat:
 
Maybe the level of care for children has improved, is why large families are uncommon.It’s no longer appropriate to have 6 children sleeping in one bed in one room, or have 5 children in a two bedroom house.
 
I waited a long time to answer this poll. It is a toughie. First of all the title talks about people feeling “unable” to cope with a larger family. I think most people are “unwilling” rather than unable. Second, although I cast my vote for materialism, I feel strongly about an “other” reason as well.

First, my rationale for materialism: I teach adults (grad school students mostly). In almost every class there are students (mostly women) who claim that they have to work (sometimes two jobs) in order to buy their kids what they ask for. Buying kids whatever they asked for used to be a sign of bad parenting, now it is the opposite.

People see things as necessities that were considered luxuries just a few years ago. Some examples: cable TV, a car for every adult in the house, multiple TVs, fee-based after school activities for the kids, cell phones, video games just to name a few. Most kids have more toys and games than they could possibly play with.

Most people with larger families exhibit different choices. Many do not have cable (even if they can afford it) or TV at all. Most drive older cars and may not have multiple cars. The kids are involved in activities with other kids rather than with trainers and tutors. Most - of course this is a generality - larger families are not living at the limit of their income either. They save and give to the Church or other charities. In fact, in my parish, the larger families are the ones that always show up in the Thanks Yous for items that were purchsed for the parish.

Now here’s my “other” answer: More couples are divided about the issue of children and family planning. I know so many couples where one partner wants no more than 2 or 3 children while the other partner wants a bigger family. Same thing with family planning. One partner wants to use NFP or “leave things in God’s hands” while the other partner wants to contracept. Sometimes I think this is a result of poor marriage preparation. At other times, I think couples believe that these issues will work themselves out but find out that the resolution is not that easy.

Before we married, in our pre-canna, we were supposed to agree on our family size. Looking back, this doesn’t seem like a very Catholic activity, but anyway it was part of the program. I wanted 4 or more, he wanted no more than 3. So we “answered” 3 or 4. After our second child was born, my husband refused to even consider more children. I prayed, I waited, I brought the subject up over and over, I prayed and waited some more. Now I am 45 and there is little chance that our family will grow. We have more than adequate financial means to raise several children. At some point, I think, a spouse will give up in order to maintain harmony.
 
I find it interesting that others (not just the last poster, but generally) seem to feel large families must have very little, or are more generous, even more faithful than smaller families. We do have 2 tvs w/ cable, more than one computer, as well as a few video game systems. We also have half decent clothing, not tons though, I have enough laundry piled up downstairs as it is!😃 We don’t homeschool either (another assumption often made about large families) While I do not feel our house is not big enough as we would like, I hope that will change in the next few years too. As a matter of fact, a few years ago I doubted we would ever be able afford a house of any size, but God answered my prayers.

I imagine since large families are very rare, you might hear these sterotypes on message boards, and yes, I hear them often too! We have managed to buy some of these things mentioned above, or certain other things were given as gifts. Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying certain “extras” are needed! Just making the point that God does provide for the children He gives you.

I can’t say we are much different from most other Catholic (or even non Catholic) families, we just have quite a few more members than others. I know some people who imply we are holier simply because of our family size, and that couldn’t be further from the truth.
 
char34,

I didn’t mean to offend you by overgeneralizing. I think I made my point awkwardly. What I meant to say is that many (not all) people who say that large families are unaffordable also view what used to be called luxuries as necessesities. In speaking to parents in larger families, they seem to me to have been more concious about the choices they have made. Or at least to articulate those choices more.

I also did not mean to imply that larger families are more faithful or more generous. What I meant to say was that many of the large families that I know are not suffering financially because of family size. They still have plenty to go around and money to spare for things like contributing to Church.

This is not to say that there are families out there who really could not afford one more child. Just that having a large family doesn’t necessarily lead to deprivation.

I only know one homeschooling family personally, they are medium size. 🙂 I didn’t mention h/schooling and I don’t tie that one to larger families - even in generalities.

By the way, given the topic of the thread, generalities are not really out of line. Unless one is a statistician, we have to answer using generalities and personal experiences. But I still appolgize for any offence given.
 
No, I wasn’t offended, in fact I wasn’t going by your post alone, just what I’ve observed on the internet (on other message boards, not just this one).

Seems like I was was trying to say the same as you, that having a large family doesn’t necessarily lead to deprivation. While it is true there are some large families are struggling financially, many people are quick to blame that on family size.Yet if a family is struggling financially with one or two children most wouldn’t say they have more children than they can afford.

Thanks for your apology, even though it wasn’t required!🙂
 
I didn’t have time to read all the posts above so maybe this has already been mentioned. At least one contributing factor is the inability of parents to properly train their children. They haven’t properly trained the two that they have so the thought of more than two overwhelms them. Their children are not obedient and the parents burn themselves out trying to get an ounce of cooperation. The kids don’t even help with the workload, and the parents somehow think it is their duty to provide them with constant entertainment and an active social life. You couldn’t possibly just expect a kid to go out and play with the neighbor kids. He can’t just enjoy a game of baseball with the other kids. He has to be coached and cheered on every second of the game. Heaven forbid you should miss a game. They overschedule thinking it is their duty to pursue and perfect every possible ounce of talent their child might have. They hop from activity to activity believing that they have to give junior every opportunity they can. They put each child in constant activity of sports, music lessons, etc., thinking that if they can just keep them busy that they will stay out of trouble. They don’t think they are competent to teach them anything so they hire “experts” to teach them how to throw and catch and kick and you name it. Of course, all of these experts and supporting equipment cost a ton of money and so Mom is off working at a second job to pay for it and then she comes home and kills herself doing housework because the children’s schedules are too full and important to be bothered with menial and worthless household chores. Materialism plays a part in that people don’t seem to value what they cannot see as concrete or anything that cannot be weighed and measured. They don’t value relationship more than possessions. I know of many large families who are very happy living on one less-than-average income. The difference is that the other family doesn’t believe they could be happy unless each kid has his own room, goes to college, owns a cell phone, etc., etc.
 
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WhiteDove:
What factor in 2004 makes folks feel most unable to cope with larger families? Why do Catholics and non-Catholics alike feel overwhelmed with more than 2 or 3 kids, when our forebears had much larger families with fewer material resources? 🙂
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Dear WhiteDove,

If I could have, I would have checked all of them starting at the 3rd one down. I would also include pop psychology and pop sociology resulting in a poor popular philosophy encouraged by eugenic social engineers. The reason most people believe this stuff (and then live it) is due to fallen man’s tendency to selfishness, and then needing/creating a “scientific” rationale which excuses their sins of choice; thus committing these sins takes on the appearance of a virtue. And even people who try to do the right thing are tempted to be a bit lazy, or tempted to give up, because society doesn’t make it easy for them. It is just totally not set up to accomodate them, which is a hard thing when you are brought up in a society that craves and gets immediate gratification. Have you ever read the book Degenerate Moderns by E. Michael Jones? It explores these issues I have mentioned. It is excellent!

Thanks for letting me voice my opinion!

Love,

:angel1: Angelina
 
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