What if you already beleive Satan's lie?

[jlhargus]

hmmm … I think you have the wrong idea of me perhaps
I can say most of what you have said here as well and in general, have no problem with it.
I would like to clarify for you that I do not cling to religion … however, I will always hold fast to the Truth, which is Jesus, 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity
I just believe that the Catholic Church is what Jesus brought down from Heaven for the following reasons:
Catholicism uses the Bible, history, doctrine and Tradition “T”…
Catholicism has not removed anything from the Bible …
It provides the Sacraments instituted by Jesus on earth …
It has unbroken Apostolic succession from the 1st century …
I believe it has the WHOLE TRUTH … I guess that’s the easiest way to put it without going into each point
But please don’t feel sorry for me … I am grateful that I can meet Jesus daily at Mass in Holy Communion (well I could if I wasn’t disabled that is) and I feel badly that after Luther broke from Catholicism so many other splits occurred after that and all that left, also left the Sacraments … that’s what breaks my heart, cuz the Sacraments give us SO much strength and grace to get through this life … with what’s coming up, we’re going to need them more than ever …
I have a habit of praying for anyone that’s touched my life in any way … all here are included as well

JL: Amen, Marywel

 

[marywel]

Hi Nancy,

How and where did Fox(e) get all the information for his book especially for the apostles and their wives? I see no documentation of sources that he used to compile his book.

I do not believe authors who do not document their sources so that I can check them out for myself to see if what they are saying is true. If there aren’t any sources, it could just be made up, because the author had a grudge against someone or some organization.

What persons seem to forget is that the Protestants persecuted and killed Catholics also. Capital punishment for heresy was the norm.

If it was a Protestant government, then they killed Catholics. All was done in the name of God, of course.

For more info on the inquisitions:

http://www.catholic.com/library/inquisition.asp

catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0075.html

catholic.com/thisrock/2007/0709tbt.asp

Pax,
SHW

yes … thank you … SOURCES … something I had in my head when I asked about this but forgot to jot down! LOL

 

[SHW]

The Catholic church believes the millennium is the period of Christ’s rule in heaven and on earth through His Church (Amillennialism). This is because the saints who reign with Christ and to whom judgment has been committed are said to be on their thrones in heaven. (Rev 20:4; cf. 4:4; 11:16). During this time, satan is bound and cannot hinder the spread of the gospel. (Rev 20:3). This is why, they explain, Jesus teaches the necessity of binding the “strong man” (satan) in order to plunder his house and rescue people from his grip. (Matt 12:29). This is also why, after the disciples preached the gospel and rejoiced that the demons were even subject to them, Jesus declared, “I saw satan fall like lightening from heaven.” (Luke 10:18). Nevertheless, during this period, the world will not be entirely Christianized because satan, though bound, is still in some sense able to prowl around and attack souls. (1 Peter 5:8).
.

Yes, the “thousand years” are symbolic for the time period between Christ’s ascension and His Second Coming.

2 Peter 3:8 “But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”

The Apostles and disciples did preach the gospel to the whole “known” world during their lifetime.

Acts 2:5 “And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.”

Romans 1:8 “First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.”

Colossians 1:23 “if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.”

SHW

 

[SHW]

Originally posted by ryanoneil:No, I’m still waiting for my own first resurrection, because I haven’t died yet. When Christ rose from the dead the righteous souls in Sheol were resurrected and went to heaven. And when we die we experience the first resurrection if we are bound for heaven.

Besides, what is wrong with the second resurrection? It means Jesus has returned.

I misinterpreted this passage, too, in past posts. I recently purchased a Navarre Bible (New Testament) with Commentary from a Catholic website (since I want to support Catholics and not big box stores) and I highly recommend it. I plan to read it from cover to cover during Lent so that my posts will be better.

Revelation 20:4-6 “And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.”

According to commentary in the Navarre Bible, “the first resurrection should be understood in a spiritual sense; meaning Baptism, which regenerates man and gives him new life by freeing him from sin and making him a son of God. The second resurrection is the one that will take place at the end of time, when the body is brought back to life, and the human being, body and soul, enters into everlasting joy. The “rest of the dead” (v. 5) are those who have not received Baptism; they, too, will be raised up on the last day, to be judged according to their deeds.”

Satan will be unbound shortly before Christ’s return. I think it he is unbound now. How long this period of time will be exactly; we do not know. Pope Leo XIII had a vision about this. You can read about it here:

michaeljournal.org/visionleo.asp

We can take comfort that God is still watching out for us:
2 Peter 3:9 “The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.”

SHW

 

[ryanoneil]

The second resurection was mad for the wicked,and the great white judgement seat of Christ blessed are those who were in the 1st resurection for which the second death has no power over them.

Everyone will be resurrected bodily at the second resurrection (good and bad).

**I saw the dead, the great and the lowly, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. Then another scroll was opened, the book of life. The dead were judged according to their deeds, by what was written in the scrolls. (Rev 20:12)

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. (Mat 25:31-33)**

I did read rev.11 and saw wrer he rules there.

Christ has been reigning since his death and resurrection.

**For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead came also through a human being. For just as in Adam all die, so too in Christ shall all be brought to life, but each one in proper order: Christ the firstfruits; then, at his coming, those who belong to Christ; then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has destroyed every sovereignty and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death, for “he subjected everything under his feet.” But when it says that everything has been subjected, it is clear that it excludes the one who subjected everything to him.(1 Cor 15:21-27) **

Is the book in order?

No. The visions are not in chronological order. They repeat, showing different aspects of the same vision (some from what is happening in heaven and others what is happening on earth). (Rev 20:6-15) has not happened yet.

Alot of people are pre and post and it can be confusing. In chapter 13 he speaks of the beast coming out of the sea,in 14 the 144thousand,now they are going through the tribulation ?and they are those of Gods elect,special first fruits.but he hides them away to protect them,to keep them safe from the beast.

Every time three and a half years or fourty-two months is mentioned in the Apocalypse, the same time period is being described.

God will protect his people but not through a secret rapture. There are Christian martyrs all through out the Apocalypse.

In Mat 13:24-43 Jesus tells us that the wicked and the righteous will co-exist until the end of the world, when they will be judged, and either inherit eternal life, or be thrown into eternal fire.

Christ will appear a second and final time, when he comes in glory to save us. The rapture and Christ’s Second Coming occur together, after the tribulation. (Mat 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27; 2 Thess 1:1-12)

So your purgotory is for those who need the cleaning up? I thought Christ washed us clean in he blood.Why should anyone be afraid of death if they were washed clean? We are all sinners but Jesus redeemed us he paid the price and took my place therefore why would I go to Purgatory? Just wanted to know Thank You for your patience, Pray for me for more knowledge and for my health needs in Jesus Name Nancy

Christ did wash us clean in His blood, but there are countless examples of losing our salvation in scripture. Final purification is sometimes needed in order to enter heaven.

If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire (itself) will test the quality of each one’s work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire. Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for the temple of God, which you are, is holy. (1 Cor 3:12-17)

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Dear marywel, Just what sacrements are you refering to? And yes we should pray for all people and Yes I beleive in Christ Jesus and all he has ever said we just decipher the scriptures differntly,you are set up to beleive that when Jesus comes back that’s it were all gone,or that he will set up his kingdom here But I tell you that unless that one is set up in a holy place first then he will not come back untill after that day. Now if you see the son of perdition set up,you must not beleive in him for you will beleive the lie. Many will be fooled because he will do great singns and doing great things as to fool even the elect and unless those days be shortened there shall no flesh be saved,but for the sake of the elect,those days shall be shortened. This person will appear as Christ,heal the sick do all kinds of miricles,and many will beleive and take the mark of the Beast,if all this already happened where is the Mark? Who is the beast? Anyone can answer this

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

yes … thank you … SOURCES … something I had in my head when I asked about this but forgot to jot down! LOL

Just a question: why is it that all you can send anyone to is a Catholic site? How about someone nuetral,someone like,maybe websters or a public library you wont read anything anyone else writes but all you can give is a Catholic’s opinion? I was just wondering Why is that? Nancy

 

[ryanoneil]

According to commentary in the Navarre Bible, “the first resurrection should be understood in a spiritual sense; meaning Baptism, which regenerates man and gives him new life by freeing him from sin and making him a son of God. The second resurrection is the one that will take place at the end of time, when the body is brought back to life, and the human being, body and soul, enters into everlasting joy. The “rest of the dead” (v. 5) are those who have not received Baptism; they, too, will be raised up on the last day, to be judged according to their deeds.”

SHW

That makes sense. There is also the saints being able to rise to heaven after Christ’s resurrection.

And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked, rocks were split, tombs were opened, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. And coming forth from their tombs after his resurrection, they entered the holy city and appeared to many.(Mat 27:51-53)

 

[marywel]

Dear marywel, Just what sacrements are you refering to? And yes we should pray for all people and Yes I beleive in Christ Jesus and all he has ever said we just decipher the scriptures differntly,you are set up to beleive that when Jesus comes back that’s it were all gone,or that he will set up his kingdom here But I tell you that unless that one is set up in a holy place first then he will not come back untill after that day. Now if you see the son of perdition set up,you must not beleive in him for you will beleive the lie. Many will be fooled because he will do great singns and doing great things as to fool even the elect and unless those days be shortened there shall no flesh be saved,but for the sake of the elect,those days shall be shortened. This person will appear as Christ,heal the sick do all kinds of miricles,and many will beleive and take the mark of the Beast,if all this already happened where is the Mark? Who is the beast? Anyone can answer this

hi again Nancy … I looked this up to be concise, I hope it helps
Jesus gave us his Apostles and his Church to shepherd his flock after his Ascension into heaven. “As the Father has sent me, even so I send you (John 17:18, 20:21).” Jesus is the Head of his Body the Church (Colossians 1:18). The Church itself is a sacrament instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus gave us his Apostles and his Body the Church to continue the works he performed during his earthly life. Grace given to us through the sacraments will help us lead a good life in this world and help save us for the afterlife.

The word sacrament is a direct translation of the Greek word mysterion. The sacraments are called mysteries in the Eastern Churches, and, as they evolved from the earliest traditions of the Church, Catholic as well as Eastern Orthodox Churches all recognize the seven sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, Holy Eucharist, Penance, the Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders, and Matrimony. The three sacraments of Christian Initiation are Baptism, Confirmation, and the Eucharist. The two sacraments of Healing are Penance and the Anointing of the Sick, and the two sacraments of Vocation are Holy Orders and Matrimony. Three sacraments, Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders, are given once, as they render a permanent seal or character upon one’s soul (2 Corinthians 1:21-22, Ephesians 4:30, Revelations 7:3).
Here’s a nice link if you wish more explanation
jesuschristsavior.net/Sacraments.html

Each sacrament consists of a visible external rite, which is composed of matter and form, the matter being the action, such as the pouring of water, and the form being the words spoken by the minister. Each sacramental rite confers a special ecclesial effect and sacramental grace appropriate for each sacrament. The sacraments occur at pivotal events and give meaning to a person’s life

Grace is a favor, the free and undeserved gift from God through Christ Jesus, to help us respond to his call to become children of God, to become partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life. Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is a participation in the life of God and is necessary for salvation.

Honestly, I’m not trying to be obstinate here … just trying to explain, best I know how … You say that we interpret the Scripture differently. This is exactly so, and most unfortunate. See, because Catholicism is the original Christianity, has the fullness of Truth and the only denomination that has Apostolic succession (proven not just with religious history but secular history as well), we have Peter’s successor here interpreting Scripture for us according to the leadings of the Holy Spirit. Additionally, there’s a Scripture that says we shouldn’t go by private interpretation (this MAY just be for prophecy, not sure). This is why I feel so strongly about it. It does not mean Catholics are better or whatever than anyone else … certainly I AM NOT! … It just shows WHY I believe as strongly as I do and why I wish to stick to Tradition (which differs from tradition, btw).

I’m well aware of the antics of the antichrist … in fact, I always pray hard for those that don’t want to hear anything about ‘end times’ as well as the jews, agnostics and atheists cuz they’re going to see this guy doing miracles and unless they reads the Bible and KNOW the antichrist is coming FIRST, they’re going to be mislead.
Um, I’m not sure anyone’s said this has already happened actually … perhaps someone said that a view is that Revelation is not literal, but symbolic? Some have said that Hitler and Nero were antichrists and this next one will be the last. I feel satan will mimic the Trinity, so perhaps … but I really think the antichrist, beast and false prophet makes up the UNholy trinity.
And, just so you know … I DO read and listen to Protestant ministers as well … Jack VanImpe comes to mind as well as Billy Graham
I sure hope I didn’t give the impression that I thought I was something … cuz I sure DON’T!

 

[marywel]

Just a question: why is it that all you can send anyone to is a Catholic site? How about someone nuetral,someone like,maybe websters or a public library you wont read anything anyone else writes but all you can give is a Catholic’s opinion? I was just wondering Why is that? Nancy

Nancy, I have looked at many sites … my bookmarks are abnormally large lol … Let me give an example. Someone that’s not too savvy on the Bible, but searching might see something like “A Course in Miracles” … it may sound good … may talk a lot about angels and God and Jesus etc… The scary thing for me is that satan will give 99% truth if he can sneak in his 1% lie. I have heard that this course in miracles tells of how the author Maryann speaks to Jesus and He’s told her that oops, He made a mistake … too bad He suffered and died as He did, cuz He really didn’t have to do that to save souls …
NOW, if someone that doesn’t know any better reads something like that WHAT ARE THEY LEFT WITH?
I just prefer to lead folks where I KNOW the Holy Spirit guides with Apostolic succession as Jesus left it with Peter. I would surely hate to spread error or lead anyone astray … so I just feel safer with the Church is all
But in all fairness, there are many things I’ve read and ministers I’ve talked with or watched that I can find nothing doctrinally wrong with at all. I believe firmly that other denominations have Truth … just not the WHOLE TRUTH. I hope this makes it clearer.

 

[SHW]

That makes sense. There is also the saints being able to rise to heaven after Christ’s resurrection.

And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked, rocks were split, tombs were opened, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. And coming forth from their tombs after his resurrection, they entered the holy city and appeared to many.(Mat 27:51-53)

I always wondered if their bodies had to go back into their graves. At first I thought that their bodies went to heaven with their souls when Jesus opened the gates of heaven.
**
Navarre Commentary:** The great church writers put forward three possible explanations: (1) it was a matter not of resurrection in the strict sense, but of appearances of these dead people; (2) they were dead people who rose in the way that Lazarus did, and who therefore would die again; (3) their resurrection was definitive, that is glorious, anticipating the final resurrection. …"

SHW

 

[jlhargus]

When God comes back with his Holy city Jerusalem he will be the temple and the 144thousand will be the special ones to live in the Holy Temple and the Gentiles will be outside the city in the courts. after the thousand years with his people he will give the kingdom back to the Father and the second judgement will happen,the wicked will be raised up and the devil unleashed for a little while,then the wicked will try to take over the Holy city but Christ will intervene and all the wicked will be distroyed and a new heaven and earth will be made and then shall he wipe all tears from their eyes and death and sin and pain will be no more and we shall be his people and He shall be Our God Forever! love of Christ Nancy REV:17-8 DID NOT HAPPEN YET.

JL: I don’t see how Rev17:1-8 the Great Whore and Beast supports or is connected to your posted theory? If you meant [Rev17:18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth." ] Wouldn’t that be Jerusalem [Rev11:8 Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, **where also their Lord was crucified.] Still does not support your theory.

What scripture evidence do you have the 144 thousand only live in the Temple? What evidence Gentiles will be outside the city in the courts? What evidence after the thousand years with his people the second judgement will happen, the wicked will be raised up and the devil unleashed for a little while and try to take over the Holy city that comes down with God? I haven’t seen this theory before. What is you present faith group? When did you beome Baptist and why if you don’t mind?

 

[jlhargus]

I always wondered if their bodies had to go back into their graves. At first I thought that their bodies went to heaven with their souls when Jesus opened the gates of heaven.
**
Navarre Commentary:** The great church writers put forward three possible explanations: (1) it was a matter not of resurrection in the strict sense, but of appearances of these dead people; (2) they were dead people who rose in the way that Lazarus did, and who therefore would die again; (3) their resurrection was definitive, that is glorious, anticipating the final resurrection. …"

SHW

JL: I have wondered about that also. To me it makes no sense to raise a body for others to see and then send it back to the grave to decay again. If they had rose like Lazarus then we would have heard more about their second life. My view, they were holy people perhaps prophets maybe St Joseph, Moses etc. who have been assumed into heaven with glorified bodies. This is my personal view, as the Church has no defined teaching on it. It is not a doctrine of the Church, I may believe as I think so long as it does not contradict Church teaching.

 

[jlhargus]

I’m open to come here to see how you beleive and i know how the Mormons believe,alot alike,

JL: You post; I know what Mormons believe, alot alike. It sounds like you are saying Catholics and Mormons believe alot alike, maybe morally nothing close doctrinally.

set up almost the same,with a head man that runs every congregation just like the catholic church dose.

JL: If there are similarities in set up, there could be two reasons for that. 1. They copied the Church. 2. They got it from scripture, where the Catholic Church is very visible. Lutheren, Anglican, Methodist etc., even JW’s are simular in set up.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

hi again Nancy … I looked this up to be concise, I hope it helps
Jesus gave us his Apostles and his Church to shepherd his flock after his Ascension into heaven. “As the Father has sent me, even so I send you (John 17:18, 20:21).” Jesus is the Head of his Body the Church (Colossians 1:18). The Church itself is a sacrament instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus gave us his Apostles and his Body the Church to continue the works he performed during his earthly life. Grace given to us through the sacraments will help us lead a good life in this world and help save us for the afterlife.

The word sacrament is a direct translation of the Greek word mysterion. The sacraments are called mysteries in the Eastern Churches, and, as they evolved from the earliest traditions of the Church, Catholic as well as Eastern Orthodox Churches all recognize the seven sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, Holy Eucharist, Penance, the Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders, and Matrimony. The three sacraments of Christian Initiation are Baptism, Confirmation, and the Eucharist. The two sacraments of Healing are Penance and the Anointing of the Sick, and the two sacraments of Vocation are Holy Orders and Matrimony. Three sacraments, Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders, are given once, as they render a permanent seal or character upon one’s soul (2 Corinthians 1:21-22, Ephesians 4:30, Revelations 7:3).
Here’s a nice link if you wish more explanation
jesuschristsavior.net/Sacraments.html

Each sacrament consists of a visible external rite, which is composed of matter and form, the matter being the action, such as the pouring of water, and the form being the words spoken by the minister. Each sacramental rite confers a special ecclesial effect and sacramental grace appropriate for each sacrament. The sacraments occur at pivotal events and give meaning to a person’s life

Grace is a favor, the free and undeserved gift from God through Christ Jesus, to help us respond to his call to become children of God, to become partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life. Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is a participation in the life of God and is necessary for salvation.

Honestly, I’m not trying to be obstinate here … just trying to explain, best I know how … You say that we interpret the Scripture differently. This is exactly so, and most unfortunate. See, because Catholicism is the original Christianity, has the fullness of Truth and the only denomination that has Apostolic succession (proven not just with religious history but secular history as well), we have Peter’s successor here interpreting Scripture for us according to the leadings of the Holy Spirit. Additionally, there’s a Scripture that says we shouldn’t go by private interpretation (this MAY just be for prophecy, not sure). This is why I feel so strongly about it. It does not mean Catholics are better or whatever than anyone else … certainly I AM NOT! … It just shows WHY I believe as strongly as I do and why I wish to stick to Tradition (which differs from tradition, btw).

I’m well aware of the antics of the antichrist … in fact, I always pray hard for those that don’t want to hear anything about ‘end times’ as well as the jews, agnostics and atheists cuz they’re going to see this guy doing miracles and unless they reads the Bible and KNOW the antichrist is coming FIRST, they’re going to be mislead.
Um, I’m not sure anyone’s said this has already happened actually … perhaps someone said that a view is that Revelation is not literal, but symbolic? Some have said that Hitler and Nero were antichrists and this next one will be the last. I feel satan will mimic the Trinity, so perhaps … but I really think the antichrist, beast and false prophet makes up the UNholy trinity.
And, just so you know … I DO read and listen to Protestant ministers as well … Jack VanImpe comes to mind as well as Billy Graham
I sure hope I didn’t give the impression that I thought I was something … cuz I sure DON’T!

You mentioned that you believe that we are saved by Grace not by works lest any man should boast? But most Catholics believe in works,what happened? I believe in grace to,and I feel you know alot more then I gave you credit for sorry. If you go to the Billy Graham site you can write a letter to Billy to help encourage him. I guess he’s not doing to good. His son Graham will e-mail you back. There are alot of Catholic’s who have said that Rev. has been lived already at the beginning of this post if you can still go there go and read some of it. Thank You Nancy God Bless

 

[marywel]

You mentioned that you believe that we are saved by Grace not by works lest any man should boast? But most Catholics believe in works,what happened? I believe in grace to,and I feel you know alot more then I gave you credit for sorry. If you go to the Billy Graham site you can write a letter to Billy to help encourage him. I guess he’s not doing to good. His son Graham will e-mail you back. There are alot of Catholic’s who have said that Rev. has been lived already at the beginning of this post if you can still go there go and read some of it. Thank You Nancy God Bless

The bible doesn’t support solo fide (faith alone without works) … God is Love … by His very Nature, Love cares … if you truly love, you are going to be LOVING to others … so how can faith alone without works BE? You must have me confused with someone else Nancy, I never said I believe we are saved by grace alone
Did you know that Luther wanted to also remove the book of James to support just that? His followers wouldn’t permit it … you should read the book of James thoroughly
Many protestants have been lead to believe the erroneous supposition that Catholics believe they can “work their way to heaven by doing ‘good works’” … nothing is further from the truth. And if you know any catholic that DOES say this, I can tell you now the they are not practicing, don’t know much about the bible and likely can’t even name the 10 commandments! LOL
To make it clearer … catholics perfom good works because the Love of God in them helps them to love their neighbors as themselves for the LOVE OF GOD as He commanded
Now, there is another possiblity for ‘good works’. … Lent is coming up … catholics traditionally give up something they like or perform some charitible work as an offering to the One that gave His ALL FOR US … this does not buy us anything … in fact many of us offer our daily pains, sufferings, humiliations, inconveniences and our very heartbeats and breaths in unison with the passion of Christ, offering it to the Father for the conversion of souls and a myriad of other things that benefit others mostly in fact In this way, our sufferings have meaning … they help the communion of saints, which is the church on earth and already passed on.
I see I’m beginning to have run on sentences here, so I should shut up now lol
take care

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

JL: I don’t see how Rev17:1-8 the Great Whore and Beast supports or is connected to your posted theory? If you meant [Rev17:18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth." ] Wouldn’t that be Jerusalem [Rev11:8 Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, **where also their Lord was crucified

.] Still does not support your theory.

What scripture evidence do you have the 144 thousand only live in the Temple? What evidence Gentiles will be outside the city in the courts? What evidence after the thousand years with his people the second judgement will happen, the wicked will be raised up and the devil unleashed for a little while and try to take over the Holy city that comes down with God? I haven’t seen this theory before. What is you present faith group? When did you beome Baptist and why if you don’t mind? Hi,Thank You for your questions,I’ll do the best I can,the 144thousand you will find in REV:14:4 they are the elect they will live within the temple.The Gentiles REV:11:2,11:12 Mark of Beast REV:13:15-18 white throne judgement REV:20:11 Thousand years of Christ REV:2-4go on to verse 7 satan released rest of the dead were not raised REV:20:5-13 New City Jerusalem REV:21 Love of Christ Nancy

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

JL: I have wondered about that also. To me it makes no sense to raise a body for others to see and then send it back to the grave to decay again. If they had rose like Lazarus then we would have heard more about their second life. My view, they were holy people perhaps prophets maybe St Joseph, Moses etc. who have been assumed into heaven with glorified bodies. This is my personal view, as the Church has no defined teaching on it. It is not a doctrine of the Church, I may believe as I think so long as it does not contradict Church teaching.

It is appointed once for man to die! after Christ died on the cross he spent his 3 day’s going to the abyss to set the captives free Moses,Abraham,Issac Jacob ETC just like he promised. God bless Nancy 2nd Peter

 

[marywel]

Hi,Thank You for your questions,I’ll do the best I can,the 144thousand you will find in REV:14:4 they are the elect they will live within the temple.The Gentiles REV:11:2,11:12 Mark of Beast REV:13:15-18 white throne judgement REV:20:11 Thousand years of Christ REV:2-4go on to verse 7 satan released rest of the dead were not raised REV:20:5-13 New City Jerusalem REV:21 Love of Christ Nancy

Hi Nancy … you may want to check your references … I went to 3 bibles … and one was specifically KJV … (2 were Catholic lol) they ALL said the same thing for REV: 14:4 ~ 4 “These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.” nothing about the 144K or them being in the temple …

Your next 2 references have to do with measuring the temple and the 2 witnesses that will prophesy and be called up after laying dead for 3½ days … at any rate, I think he’s asking not for text on what you said, but how your stated theory is supported by Scripture and where … in other words, how do you prove your stand that the 144K WILL be living only IN the temple etc. … see what I mean?

 

[marywel]

Hi Nancy … I just found this …
We were talking earlier about faith and works … here is from the KJV … this is the text that made Luther want to omit this book TOO from the KJV Bible … I believe he removed a total of 5 or 7 … (I forget) books to attempt to support his views … in other words, he wanted to remove all that proved he was wrong … anyway … here’s the text I found from KJV:
James 2: Faith and Deeds
14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,"and he was called God’s friend.** 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. **
***As I said, this is even in the KJV … so it boggles my mind why protestants hold so fast to the FAITH ALONE stance ?!? ***
In fact, here is the link where I got this:
biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=66&chapter=2&version=31