What Is a Just Wage?

[Socrates92]

So you are speaking about population, not just geography, when you say “most of the US.” Can you provide a source, because intuitively I would think the opposite is the case. Personally I would assume that, because rural, by definition, means a lesser populated area per acreage, most of the US would be non-rural.

 

[Pup7]

OMG.

Have you ever flown across the United States in a passenger jet? Looked out the window? Seen the houses and towns miles and miles away from an urban center?

Ever driven the routes I have? It’s 3500 miles from Sumter, SC to Seattle, WA. I’ve done it twice.

I-10 is nearly as far. So is I-40.

You have Google. Go use it. Most of the US is NOT urban. Most of the population DOES NOT live near or in a major city.

You’re not American. Please don’t tell me what life is like in my country. I don’t presume to know what it’s like in Canada - because I’ve only been to Victoria and Toronto, and I’ve never lived in either place.

My husband did that when he first came here - he tried to tell me how you can hail taxis in Raleigh, NC. LOL, no you can’t. He learned the hard way.

 

[Socrates92]

I did use google (well, actually bing). The first article I found stated that ~86% of the population was non-rural. (Here it is again: USDA ERS - Population & Migration) Which is why I asked if you had a contrary source. I’m not sure what looking out of a window of a jet at 10,000s of feet up has to do with the question of population distribution. The Pacific Ocean is pretty big too; I still wouldn’t necessarily argue that most of the world lives in the ocean.

 

[Pup7]

LOL. Most of the US is not urban. Most of the US does not live near a major city. Most of the US does not have access to public transportation that is reliable, that stops by their front door, and will take them directly to their job. Most cannot use public transport to get groceries or to go to the doctor.

Passenger jets fly at 38K feet. It’s relevant because you get a feel for how big the US is and how spread out we are.

As I said, how much of the US have you seen? Ever lived here? Been places besides NYC and Los Angeles?

I have. I’ve traversed the US breadth, width, and the height of both coasts. Lived in seven states. I’ve also lived abroad and have seen what “real” public transport is like. In Korea, I didn’t even ship my car because I didn’t need it! But I assuredly need one here, in Tacoma.

Keep Googling. There’s more to the US than that.

 

[Pup7]

Here’s what they’re REALLY talking about…this makes my point. “Rural” doesn’t mean what you think it means, and neither does “urban”.

I’ve never lived in a city with easy access to public transport that could get me to work. Ever. Even living here in Tacoma, most people drive because unless you work in the center of Seattle, there’s no transport to get you to work.

Please do more research on the dismal state of public transport in this country, and then come down here and see for yourself. It was an eye-opener for my British husband - and it took him five years to figure out you seriously cannot live without a car in most of the US. I’m sure stats on Canada don’t tell me the whole story about what it’s like to live there on a day to day basis, either.

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2012/03/us-urban-population-what-does-urban-really-mean/1589/

 

[Pup7]

And I get how reading a bunch of stats online gives you the complete wrong impression. But I live here, and I’m telling you what this place is like. Public transport is, for the most part, non-existent outside of major metro areas. We just don’t have it. We have US highways and interstates, state highways and massive automobile infrastructures. Areas are developed around driving and have been for decades. It’s impossible to live in most of the United States without a car. It’s not about status - it’s a necessity.

 

[Socrates92]

Hmmm, I don’t know. 71% of the population living in “urbanized areas” (defined in your article as 50,000+) still seems pretty significant. And it’s definitely more than 50%. Tell me about transport. I hate buses too, which is why I bike everywhere. If you “seriously cannot live without a car,” how did he manage for five years?

 

[Pup7]

LOL we had two cars! He just observed that you have to have one. It took him five years to say so.

Hmmm, I don’t know. 71% of the population living in “urbanized areas” (defined in your article as 50,000+) still seems pretty significant. And it’s definitely more than 50%. Tell me about transport. I hate buses too, which is why I bike everywhere.

Amazing how you know what it’s like to live here.

Again, where in the US have you been that is not NYC, LA, Frisco, or another major city?

Minot, ND, maybe? Burlington, NC? Sheridan, WY? Cibolo, TX?

 

[DarkLight]

U.S. cities are not designed for walking or bikes either. I had one case recently - I needed to go only about a half mile. But there was a major highway in the way. The only way across was one underpass, which had 40mph+ traffic, no sidewalk and no shoulder. It would have been sheer stupidity to try that.

Lower end jobs also often require evening or weekend hours, while reduced Saturday and no Sunday transit and transit only for business hours is common. And in many parts the weather is unsuitable for bikes.

 

[Socrates92]

I’m confused… Did he, or did he not actually try to do it? Either way, your anecdote doesn’t necessarily refute my point, as I you are two of the 29% of Americans who do not live in an urban area.

 

[Socrates92]

What does unsuitable bike weather look like? You’re not talking about a bit of rain and wind are you?

 

[Pup7]

I’m confused… Did he, or did he not actually try to do it? Either way, your anecdote doesn’t necessarily refute my point, as I you are two of the 29% of Americans who do not live in an urban area.

LOL he couldn’t do it. We OWNED two cars. We had to own two cars. (Well, I owned two cars, because he didn’t have an SSN until he immigrated here.)

You are missing my point. He realized after five years of living here there was no way to not own a car.

He told me one day he was going to take the train from Raleigh to Winston Salem.

I literally laughed and told him to call Amtrak.

There was no station in Raleigh and the only Amtrak station near Winston was 14 miles from the center of the city.

He told me he was going to hail a taxi in downtown Raleigh.

He ended up calling me to come and get him because no taxi would take him the distance he needed to go to get home - which was what I had told him. Sometimes you have to let adults learn for themselves.

You can’t presume to know what life is like somewhere else that you’ve never lived or experienced until you do.

Amazing how my countrymen always get accused of presuming things about other places, but I always seem to run into outsiders who do that about the US.

 

[Socrates92]

U.S. cities are not designed for walking or bikes either. I had one case recently - I needed to go only about a half mile. But there was a major highway in the way. The only way across was one underpass, which had 40mph+ traffic, no sidewalk and no shoulder. It would have been sheer stupidity to try that.

Granted. But how common is this particular predicament?

 

[Pup7]

Granted. But how common is this particular predicament?

It’s everywhere. It’s dominant.

It’s the prevailing state of affairs.

Again - where have you been in the US? How much traveling have you done here? Ever lived here outside of a major city? Ever talk to Americans who do live here and have lived here most of their lives (I’ve spent several years overseas).

 

[Pup7]

What does unsuitable bike weather look like? You’re not talking about a bit of rain and wind are you?

Interstates (you can’t ride your bike on an interstate anyway - Federal law bars that) have been closed due to ice and snow. Not all areas have snow equipment.

In the summertime the heat can be dangerous. Just today in San Antonio, TX, it hit 100 degrees. It was 65 degrees here in the PNW. This country is big and has a wide variety of climates just on the same day.

You do realize in Michigan it hits multiple degrees below zero, correct? I’ve been in Minot, ND in the winter. The wind chill was -52 degrees Fahrenheit. (I saw water freeze in midair and shatter when it hit the pavement. It was 57 degrees in South Carolina on the same day - my husband was still there as I was on temporary assignment.)

Most cities do not have bike lanes. Most cities are not bike friendly.

 

[Socrates92]

Well, so far you haven’t really talked about the majority of the US population. You’ve only really given me a couple anecdotes, argued that things are unfeasible for about 29% of the population.

I’m not sure what’s wrong with having presumptions, especially since I’ve given my logical basis for holding them, and made it clear that I’m open to contrary evidence. I would expect someone like you would have no problem refuting me if my reasoning were actually flawed. So far, all you’ve talked about is hard it is to get by in a rural area, which I granted more-or-less from the beginning anyways.

 

[Pup7]

Well, so far you haven’t really talked about the majority of the US population. You’ve only really given me a couple anecdotes, argued that things are unfeasible for about 29% of the population.

LOL!

Did you read the link I gave you, or just brush it off?

So far, all you’ve talked about is hard it is to get by in a rural area, which I granted more-or-less from the beginning anyways.

Raleigh, NC is not RURAL. It’s the capital of North Carolina. That’s hilarious. Adjacent to that is Durham, home of my alma mater, Duke University, and its world renowned medical center. It’s also home to the Research Triangle Park.

Not rural. And that’s where we lived at the time of the car debacle.

It’s mind-blowing to me how an outsider can be so presumptuous about a place they’ve never been.

 

[TheOldColonel]

The ability to meet basic needs is a criteria. Yet, agreement upon what is basic is often disputed.

 

[Pup7]

I’m not sure what’s wrong with having presumptions, especially since I’ve given my logical basis for holding them, and made it clear that I’m open to contrary evidence.

I provided you with a link.

From the link - here’s the ACTUAL census definition of “urban”.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Pup7]

They are counting towns of 2500 as URBAN.



Not hardly. LOL!

I doubt people in Bellevue are living without cars or riding their bikes to work.